[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Wolf, your math is a bit suspect. Half a second on a one minute track taken over ten minutes is five seconds, hardly being close to being lapped.

I suspect the GT will handily outperform the 991S and likely the GTS too. I'm sure future iterations will give the GT3 a hard time too.

As Levi said, the Cayman is a better chassis than the 911, so Porsche has sort of created an issue for themselves. Challengers will eventually dethrone the 911, whether Porsche answers with their own, better Cayman is yet to be seen.

Not mentioned in any of this is where the C7 and C7 Z06 fit in performance wise, for a heck of a lot less money.

Challengers have been trying to dethrone the 911 for 50 years, and it still hasn't happened. The 911 is still the benchmark and the bar the 991 has set is higher than ever and still is embarrassing cars left and right. Hell, even the F12 and c7 as great as they are and both being RWD couldn't beat the 9914S as best driver's car. That right there says a lot. Not only americas best can't match it, a 400k exotic couldn't.

Originally Posted by F1Venom

Dude. Extrapolating that, the Porsche would beat the SLS by 5 seconds on a ten minute track, that's far from being a lap. And honestly, if someone was offering you a $500k Ferrari you'd still probably take your run of the mill $130k Porsche because you're such a diehard fanboy. I bet the CEO of Porsche is laughing at you.

And at this point, you're either mentally deranged or a troll if you say that a 991S is a better drivers car than the SLS Black Series.

Sorry guys, I edited this post on my iPhone but the changes didn't take. What it was supposed to say was that over a 10 minute session, yes the difference doesn't seem all that big, even though its still not all that close, but extrapolate that over 100 laps, and you see that the SLS is close to being lapped.

And yes, a 991S is a better driver's car than an SLS Black. I've actually driven both and the 991S is certainly a league above. Just like the 911 is a better driver's car than a GTR. Let's also put it this was, the 991S is a little bit better driver's car than the 9914S, yet even the 4S was voted as a BETTER DRIVER'S car than the SLS Black Series. So a panel of 9 judges, of which includes a very decorated pro driver in Randy Pobst all said the 9914S was flat out a better car to drive than the SLS Black...its not hard to see a 991S is. The only troll and mentally deranged one is you if you're going to argue otherwise.

Randy: "I hate to use the word 'driver's' car, but that's what comes to my mind after having just driven it. The 911 is just so much better on the race rack than anything else we have here."

http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...r/viewall.html

[Red Bread]

Seriously, Pobst liked a Porsche, after racing them for two decades? Is your next example going to be Hurley Haywood?

Of course the 911 is a great car. But it beating a C7 that's half it's price with a panel of biased judges isn't exactly a strong pedestal. The Z06 will demolish non GT 991's and likely outperform the GT3 and be darn close to Turbos all for 50% less or greater.

I love the 991S and have driven a few myself. I've driven the C7 too and don't find it quite as engaging. But taking price into consideration, Porsche should be concerned. In my opinion this is forcing their hand to up the power in the better driving Cayman.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Seriously, Pobst liked a Porsche, after racing them for two decades? Is your next example going to be Hurley Haywood?

Of course the 911 is a great car. But it beating a C7 that's half it's price with a panel of biased judges isn't exactly a strong pedestal. The Z06 will demolish non GT 991's and likely outperform the GT3 and be darn close to Turbos all for 50% less or greater.

I love the 991S and have driven a few myself. I've driven the C7 too and don't find it quite as engaging. But taking price into consideration, Porsche should be concerned. In my opinion this is forcing their hand to up the power in the better driving Cayman.

You completely disregarded the fact that they also unanimously picked it over the Ferrari too which costs what 4 times more.
The Z06 may be 'faster' but it sure won't have the precision, feel and the pure factor of being a connected car as a 991S, let alone a GT3. Just like how time and time again, both the cayman and GT3 would beat the z06 despite being slower because in every other factor they simply outdid the z06. Or even when they ranked the best handling cars under 100K and the z06 came in 6th place out of 7 cars whereas the Boxster Spyder was #1. ZR1 also lost handily to a Cayman S PDK years ago. They all say a lot. And the results wont be any different this time around because for as far as Chevy has come, Porsche has only moved the bar that much higher with the 991.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

You completely disregarded the fact that they also unanimously picked it over the Ferrari too which costs what 4 times more.
The Z06 may be 'faster' but it sure won't have the precision, feel and the pure factor of being a connected car as a 991S, let alone a GT3. Just like how time and time again, both the cayman and GT3 would beat the z06 despite being slower because in every other factor they simply outdid the z06. Or even when they ranked the best handling cars under 100K and the z06 came in 6th place out of 7 cars whereas the Boxster Spyder was #1. ZR1 also lost handily to a Cayman S PDK years ago. They all say a lot. And the results wont be any different this time around because for as far as Chevy has come, Porsche has only moved the bar that much higher with the 991.

Well, you are forgetting why Porsche is that good: they have Boxer engines. Why to you think the F12/Aventador fighter of Porsche is, according to rumors, going to get a Boxer 8, not V8/V10/V12. It does change a lot about the handling characteristics of a car. Boxer engines are Porsche's secrete weapon.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Levi

Well, you are forgetting why Porsche is that good: they have Boxer engines. Why to you think the F12/Aventador fighter of Porsche is, according to rumors, going to get a Boxer 8, not V8/V10/V12. It does change a lot about the handling characteristics of a car. Boxer engines are Porsche's secrete weapon.

Not argueing there. It allows them to keep the center of gravity low by placing it lower. Porsche is going to knock that car out of the atmosphere its going to be so good.

[Red Bread]

While they picked it over the front engined F12, I don't think I've seen anyone pick any form of 911 over a 458, so that's sort of a Pyrrhic victory. I'm sure it would beat the similarly expensive FF too, but both the FF and F12 are significantly different in purpose than the 911.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

While they picked it over the front engined F12, I don't think I've seen anyone pick any form of 911 over a 458, so that's sort of a Pyrrhic victory. I'm sure it would beat the similarly expensive FF too, but both the FF and F12 are significantly different in purpose than the 911.

Yes, but also remember how many times the 997 GT3/RS was picked over the 458...by and large it was every time. UK's best driver's car, EVO best of the best, EVO Car of the year just to name a few.

I think between a 458 and a 991S/4S it would be close. 991 GT3 vs 458, hands down GT3. The only car right now that can compare favorably to a 991 GT3 is the Speciale, in which the new GT3 RS will handily take care of considering the Speciale doesnt have much advantage other than straight line over the 991 GT3...which it should considering its got 125 more hp.

That aside, the F12 is a brilliant car bar none.

Mind you also, the 991S/4S did beat the McLaren, the Aventador, the C63 Black, and R8 handily as well. Just the mere fact that what is by and large an entry level 911 is easily, and quite handily beating almost every other sports/super/exotic car out there does speak volumes to say the least. And the fact that an AWD car put to shame almost every great RWD car in the world says even more. And to boot, even the turbo S in this year's MT Best driver's car only lost out to 2 track day special cars. And that is easily the most GT Porsche you can get. Again, it speaks volumes considering how good the competition is...just the 911 is that much better.

[Razzy]

Call me crazy but the 458 is a 6-7 year old car now. Can we wait till the successor before we callthe 991 the best thing since sliced bread?

As for an F12 vs 911 GT3, LOL anyone with their wits about them would get the F12. I think Porsche top brass would take an F12 over a 991 GT3.

Hell I'm poor, I'd take the 458 over a 991 GT3. Lap times are one thing but there is clearly some fanboyism going on here when it comes to Porsche's.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by Razzy

Call me crazy but the 458 is a 6-7 year old car now. Can we wait till the successor before we callthe 991 the best thing since sliced bread?

As for an F12 vs 911 GT3, LOL anyone with their wits about them would get the F12. I think Porsche top brass would take an F12 over a 991 GT3.

Hell I'm poor, I'd take the 458 over a 991 GT3. Lap times are one thing but there is clearly some fanboyism going on here when it comes to Porsche's.

I think Ferrari is overrated, and especially when they'll be like any other cars: turbo.

[KingOfJericho]

Yeah, a Ferrari with turbos will surely be a dud...

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Levi

I think Ferrari is overrated, and especially when they'll be like any other cars: turbo.

F cars are def overrated.

I have a buddy who owns a 458, 599 and F12 and he will tell you any day of the week his GT2 RS is by far the best car he owns.

[F1Venom]

The mere fact that I see more 911s per day than ///M's and AMGs keep me away from any 911. It's an amazing car and I'm no badge whore, but I certainly wouldn't want to drive a car 2x the price of my M3 and 5-10x more common (997 and 991).

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by F1Venom

The mere fact that I see more 911s per day than ///M's and AMGs keep me away from any 911. It's an amazing car and I'm no badge whore, but I certainly wouldn't want to drive a car 2x the price of my M3 and 5-10x more common (997 and 991).

LOL.

I see far more M cars than I do anything else. I probably see about 15-20 of them as I do Porsches, Ferraris, Astons etc. Guess it just depends where you live but end of the day the 911 is still a far better car in every regard.
If anything, seeing many 911s shows you how popular theyve become. Looks like a lot of former M owners around your area have taken a step up to a new echelon of car.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by F1Venom

The mere fact that I see more 911s per day than ///M's and AMGs keep me away from any 911. It's an amazing car and I'm no badge whore, but I certainly wouldn't want to drive a car 2x the price of my M3 and 5-10x more common (997 and 991).

For that reason, where in Germany everybody drives an Audi, BMW or Mercedes, I'd rather be in a Lexus, or just stay in an Alfa Romeo, if only they built cars like before.

[Stallion150]

goddamn this car looks good!

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...e-drive-review

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Stallion150

goddamn this car looks good!

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...e-drive-review

Wont be at all competition for something like a GT3 or Turbo.
It MAY be competitive in a straight line with a 991S, but then again, the 991S will be revised and even faster than it is now so maybe not even in a straight. At 3600 lbs, and Im betting it will weigh more, it wont stand a chance in handling or agility to a 3300 lb 991.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Wont be at all competition for something like a GT3 or Turbo.
It MAY be competitive in a straight line with a 991S, but then again, the 991S will be revised and even faster than it is now so maybe not even in a straight. At 3600 lbs, and Im betting it will weigh more, it wont stand a chance in handling or agility to a 3300 lb 991.

992 (no 991.2) will likely get the new 3.0l Flat 6 Turbo. Will sound like shit but be definitely be faster with more torque.

[Razzy]

Originally Posted by Levi

I think Ferrari is overrated, and especially when they'll be like any other cars: turbo.

Perhaps, but that is subjective. I'm saddened by the move to turbos when it comes to a performance marque like Ferrari but I guess it's a part of the times. That's why I will settle for Ferrari's current line-up (458, 599/f12). Even if their newer and more torquier cars are on the market.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Levi

992 (no 991.2) will likely get the new 3.0l Flat 6 Turbo. Will sound like shit but be definitely be faster with more torque.

Wont argue nomenclature but its still the 991 generation so 991.2 makes the most sense.

Turbos will never sound as good, but so long as it doesnt sound attrocious like the m3/4 im ok. 911 turbo sounds good, but just far too muted in stock form.

[F1Venom]

So I'm walking in Santa Monica, CA and down the street drives by what I originally perceived to be a white SLS amg. Turns out it was a camouflaged GT! i thought it was amazing looking.

[Crimson92]

Originally Posted by F1Venom

So I'm walking in Santa Monica, CA and down the street drives by what I originally perceived to be a white SLS amg. Turns out it was a camouflaged GT! i thought it was amazing looking.

:

[Stallion150]

Another very good article; Looks like first drives are rolling in.

http://jalopnik.com/first-drive-merc...-mo-1657733025