[RllyDrvrIX]

Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC

Great race, Ricciardo earned that one. Rather enjoying him owning Vettel this season.

Yes indeed!

[GTB/ZR-1]

Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC

Great race, Ricciardo earned that one. Rather enjoying him owning Vettel this season.

Talk abt a fall from grace & being humbled...

His demeanor in post-qualy was quite meek--like he's so completely humiliated, he didn't know what to do with himself in that interview.

I do believe he's an excellent driver, but cannot seemingly adapt to a non-P1 car--like ALO does w/ that jalopy F-car (did I just call a Ferrari a jalopy??? lol).

And, yes, Nico--as stated before, be careful what you wish for! lol

[jonasaurus]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

What they should doing is looking at the idiocy of having astro-turf at the exit of the corner at the start of the main straight which has zero grip when wet. Both the spins were a result of its placement and either could have had serious consequences.

Fair point but on the other hand PER and VET already know the dangers of water and astro turf so in pushing hard they were running wide onto that stuff. If it were in a street track setting would just be a wall there which I'm sure they'd avoid!

Possibly best race of a Merc dominated season so far. HAM killed it and RIC had the right strategy given the circumstances but nevertheless drove well to seal it.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Yeah it just seems like that astroturf is a bad accident waiting to happen.
It was certainly a great race, especially for Hungary which is generally a yawnfest.
Only the team orders for Lewis spoilt it a bit...it put him in an impossible position, on the one side he is a good sportsman and team player and wanted to do as his team asked him and on the other it was going to cost him points - in the end Nico couldn't get close to Lewis so it worked out ok but clearly took the edge off the result for Lewis in what was an impressive drive.

[EdM5]

Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC

Great race, Ricciardo earned that one. Rather enjoying him owning Vettel this season.

Definitely

Seb has to be one of the most overrated drivers ever. 4 consecutive WCships? What a joke considering Alonso is only a double and Lewis only a single champ.

Hell, even Lauda, Senna and Stewart are only triple champs.

[six_timer]

Originally Posted by EdM5

Seb has to be one of the most overrated drivers ever. 4 consecutive WCships? What a joke considering Alonso is only a double and Lewis only a single champ.

Hell, even Lauda, Senna and Stewart are only triple champs.

I see no logic in your comment, as they don't just hand-out WCs based on popularity. And who ever said that a driver's WC count must be proportional to their "greatness"? You're free to have whatever opinion you want about any driver, regardless of WCs.

That being said, I really dislike the knee-jerk armchair quarterbacking that's going on. For example, Kimi has always been listed in the top echelon of drivers, yet he's doing poorly as Alonso's teammate. So why isn't he being called "overrated" as with Vettel? And Alonso is regarded the top driver by many, but when he drove for McLaren alongside Hamilton, he didn't do well. So is he overrated too?

At this level of sport, there are always going to be differences among the cars, not only between teams, but also within teams. And sometimes a car's setup is more suitable to one driver than another. This year, Vettel, Hamilton, Raikkonnen and Massa have all had much worse luck with their cars than their teammates. It's not because they're bad drivers, it's just racing.

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by five_timer

I see no logic in your comment, as they don't just hand-out WCs based on popularity. And who ever said that a driver's WC count must be proportional to their "greatness"? You're free to have whatever opinion you want about any driver, regardless of WCs.

That being said, I really dislike the knee-jerk armchair quarterbacking that's going on. For example, Kimi has always been listed in the top echelon of drivers, yet he's doing poorly as Alonso's teammate. So why isn't he being called "overrated" as with Vettel? And Alonso is regarded the top driver by many, but when he drove for McLaren alongside Hamilton, he didn't do well. So is he overrated too?

At this level of sport, there are always going to be differences among the cars, not only between teams, but also within teams. And sometimes a car's setup is more suitable to one driver than another. This year, Vettel, Hamilton, Raikkonnen and Massa have all had much worse luck with their cars than their teammates. It's not because they're bad drivers, it's just racing.

This is one of those "agree to disagree" arguments, and will never have a conclusion. And we've all been through this many times.

Like I said for several years here. If Seb won 4 WDC, how come Webber can't even get once?

In a fair point of view, have we ever seen World Champions won with a POS car throughout the season? I'd say no, but even if there was in the past, it wasn't often at all. Its either the fastest car, or the second fastest car on the grid.

Again, Formula 1, like its name, a "formula". You will need a combination of car, driver, team and even luck. with all these variables make a world champion driver and team.

I was watching on of the Ted Kravitz qualifying notebook, and was asking Kimi's manager (?) about rumors. One thing he stated, drivers dont become shitty in a day. There must be a combination of variables affects the performance.

I just cannot stand people dis-credit Vettel's achievement with just one race weekend, or even just one season of under-performance. Think about the pressure he had to carry every season to defend the championship. Also IMO, he is still very humble despite a 4 time world champ.

Anyhow, my point is, every world champion was well deserved in the season they've won. It is not their fault that others are unable to challenge them.
Some might lost their edge due to various reasons, but it is not the evidence to discredit their achievement.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

Like I said for several years here. If Seb won 4 WDC, how come Webber can't even get once?

Would he have won 4 straight with a stronger teammate like Alonso? Better yet how about someone driving the way Ricciardo is now.

Adrian Newey is the real man behind the success.

Lets see next year. When RBR gets a more robust powerplant and the RBR is strong once again. Will Ricciardo still be handing it to Vettel?

[JB135MDCT]

Originally Posted by SonnyJack

No shit! Grow a set Nico and drive the fucking car! LH said "I'm not going to SLOW DOWN and let Nico pass."

Translation......"if Nico will drive lights out and get close enough, as in when I was badgering Vettel........I will let him pass, but I ain't slowing down!"

This ain't Barrichelo / Shumacher!!!!

Nico is just not the driver Hamilton is and wanted to be spoon-fed. Disgusting.

I sense that you have accepted Nico as 2014 F1 champion.

[JB135MDCT]

Best race ever on the boring Magyar thanks to rain, for sheit tires and a few drivers with some balls.

Alonso's 4 off and continued cheating ways continues as usual without getting penalized.

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

Would he have won 4 straight with a stronger teammate like Alonso? Better yet how about someone driving the way Ricciardo is now.

Adrian Newey is the real man behind the success.

Lets see next year. When RBR gets a more robust powerplant and the RBR is strong once again. Will Ricciardo still be handing it to Vettel?

You never know.

Nonetheless, its a fact that he delivered whenever it matters.

Some argue about his "greatness". What about his drive in Silverstone back in 2012? Or Brazil in 2012? Its not "great" that he was once the youngest point scoring driver in his first race? (Back in 2007 points only goes down to P6)

What about his win in Monza in 2008 with a sub-par Toro Rosso in treacherous rain condition?

Lets just not take away his achievement once he under-perform.
He might not be the greatest driver on the grid now, or just a name on the record book. But he does his job when it requires. Stuck the car on pole and win the race.

It is harder to gauge which driver is better nowadays given the way cars being developed, set up, track condition, power unit, etc etc. Too many various variables that will affect lap times.

IMO, the best on the grid at the moment is ALO and HAM. Then followed by VET, RAI, ROS, and then BUT, RIC, BOT.

Underperforming Vettel Yes (at the moment), Overrated world champ, no.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

What about his win in Monza in 2008 with a sub-par Toro Rosso in treacherous rain condition?

We all know rain is the great equalizer. I mean come on, Fisichella won in Jordan.

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

We all know rain is the great equalizer. I mean come on, Fisichella won in Jordan.

Exactly, an "equalizer". Its all down to driver's feel and certain talent.

[E90SLAM]

Anyways..stating Vettel "overrated" just based on this year's performance was unjustified IMO.

Yes, Newey is a huge contributor, but also thousands of employees of RBR, clocking up fastest pit stop and hard work in Milton Keyes.

But if his championships were just because Newey and overrated, then what about past champions? Damon Hill? Mika Hakkinen? Jacques Villeneuve? Nigel Mansell?

Again, like I said, its a combination of various variables to make a "Winning Formula". Design, car, team, driver and luck.

[E90SLAM]

While reading PlanetF1 forum....some comments struck my mind....

Ricciardo is only 71 points behind Rosberg after his second career win.
Given if HAM and ROS keep taking points off each other, Daniel can have some popcorn and watch the drama. And possibly steal the championship home with double points in the final race!

Never say impossible. Don't forget how Kimi won in 2007 and Vettel won in 2010. Most people got focused on Alonso and Hamilton, or Alonso and Webber. Where RAI and VET kind of hiding under the racer until they won the last race.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

IMO, the best on the grid at the moment is ALO and HAM. Then followed by VET, RAI, ROS, and then BUT, RIC, BOT.

The only yardstick for driver performance is his record against his team mates. After that its just gut feeling and personal preference.

For me its HAM ALO - RIC ROS BOT - RAI BUT VET

BOT is a bit of a guess but he looks like he could be special.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by E90SLAM

While reading PlanetF1 forum....some comments struck my mind....

Ricciardo is only 71 points behind Rosberg after his second career win.
Given if HAM and ROS keep taking points off each other, Daniel can have some popcorn and watch the drama. And possibly steal the championship home with double points in the final race!

Highly unlikely, it will take a number of DNF's by both Lewis and Nico. I do not see that happening, the gap is going to continue to grow between 3rd place. Especially with Williams (Bottas) running so well and will no doubt be stealing some points from Ricciardo.

Ricciardo's two wins are due to mechanical problems in Canada and rain/safety cars in Hungry. Otherwise Mercedes is absolutely owning the field.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

The only yardstick for driver performance is his record against his team mates. After that its just gut feeling and personal preference.

For me its HAM ALO - RIC ROS BOT - RAI BUT VET

BOT is a bit of a guess but he looks like he could be special.

Agree on the yardstick. Currently I have this top 5 in terms of speed:
1. HAM
2. ALO
3. BOT
4. RIC
5. HUL

For overall racing skills and point maximization I rate ALO on top. He would be my top driver pick as a team owner followed by the rest of my top 5 list.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by solstice

Agree on the yardstick. Currently I have this top 5 in terms of speed:
1. HAM
2. ALO
3. BOT
4. RIC
5. HUL

For overall racing skills and point maximization I rate ALO on top. He would be my top driver pick as a team owner followed by the rest of my top 5 list.

I think if you want to know that your car is being driven absolutely as fast as it can be, then Lewis is your man, if you want slightly less speed but a "smarter" driver then Alonso is top of the list.
I'd take LH first myself.
Ricciardo drove brilliantly in last two races, he has great overtaking skills and a lot of speed, its going to be interesting to see how he fits into the driver ratings - him in the same team as LH or FA would be fascinating.
It must be tough if you are a Vettel supporter to see your man being overshadowed but he is taking it with good grace, which says a lot about his character - weirdly I like him more now than when he was winning!
BOT and HUL are unknowns as well - they both seem fast but is that because their team mates are not?
Feel a bit sorry for Nico - he is a very fast driver who in most any any other team would look exceptional.
Jules Bianchi may be a bit of a dark horse, rumored as having a chance of a switch to Ferrari...jammy bastard, film star looks and gets to drive an F1 car.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

I think if you want to know that your car is being driven absolutely as fast as it can be, then Lewis is your man, if you want slightly less speed but a "smarter" driver then Alonso is top of the list.
I'd take LH first myself.
Ricciardo drove brilliantly in last two races, he has great overtaking skills and a lot of speed, its going to be interesting to see how he fits into the driver ratings - him in the same team as LH or FA would be fascinating.
It must be tough if you are a Vettel supporter to see your man being overshadowed but he is taking it with good grace, which says a lot about his character - weirdly I like him more now than when he was winning!
BOT and HUL are unknowns as well - they both seem fast but is that because their team mates are not?
Feel a bit sorry for Nico - he is a very fast driver who in most any any other team would look exceptional.
Jules Bianchi may be a bit of a dark horse, rumored as having a chance of a switch to Ferrari...jammy bastard, film star looks and gets to drive an F1 car.

I agree, other than the pick of HAM over ALO if I was a team boss. I also look at BOT and HUL from more than this year. To me they have shown great relative speed in poor cars and faster cars and across a few different team mates. BOT is seriously competitive in a faster car and drove way above the cars competitiveness when he had a crap car. HUL has only been in crap cars and shown very good speed and results for what he has to drive. Not sure about ROS, seems a bit like Seb. I agree though, unlucky for him it's HAM and not WEB...

I also agree about Vettel, I didn't like him as a champ but this year his personality is so much better. A very good loser but a pretty poor winner.

[E90SLAM]

I do like Vettel more and more over the years, not because of his wins, but his attitude.
Either fake or just PR or faking humble, when he was asked how you feel with all the legend greats. he doesn't want to be compared with all the legends. They are so much more than what he had achieved.

Remember what he said after one of the wins last season? "We must remember these days!" He doesnt take winning for granted, and cherish every moment he's on the podium.

And I like his "no-paparazzi" news. We never read any of his side-news on tabloids.
He kept his driving as a profession and private life out of racing.

Anyways, real character was shown when a world champion stops winning.

[E90SLAM]

Hate summer break!!! Now there's a month without F1.
Wonder if Rosberg will come back leg-shaking weak after his honeymoon...