[rmanm4]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

Wait, wait, wait...we do?

Kind of getting ahead of yourself there - I don't believe that. So we don't ALL know that.

I believe the earth was created by God. It also happens to be a heck of an easier pill to swallow that there is intelligent design, than some random chance event of a big bang creating all of this. That would take a lot of faith.

Plus, I'm not sure where the material came from to begin with to create the "big bang".

How's that for contributing to the thread?

I'm sorry, "we" as in the science community. This thread is a science thread and not about religion or faith. Don't get me wrong, I do believe there is a creator that created the big bang and set the "rules" of the universe. Just look at evolution alone, it's damn amazing to see in plants and animals over thousands/millions of years.

[UncleWede]

Originally Posted by Manny01

The geocentric model (Earth being the center of the universe) was never based on science. It was biblical position designed to support the perceived infallibility of the Bible. People have known for hundreds of years that this was wrong, but they were considered heretics, imprisoned, excommunicated, etc.

My point exactly. Those species who operate in x-dimensional space and fold to our biblical 3-d think we are like those early church followers

[leopard print]

Science and the universe itself fascinates the hell out of me. I watch way too many Youtube videos about the subject.

However, a part of me wonders if we as humans think we're smarter than we actually are. By we, I mean the scientists and others that are certainly a whole lot smarter than I am. But we want use what we understand about science to explain or theorize about a universe that we've been a part of for arguably 0.0000000000000000001% of it's existence (not exact, but you get the point).

By no means am I saying we shouldn't try to explain or theorize. I just think there is so much more at play than we can ever comprehend.

[TiMSport]

Originally Posted by rmanm4

1000000%

I graduated with a bunch of engineers and probably a good 70% of them should not be hired! The paper does not mean anything but.....the ability to read and learn something fast.

And to con people into thinking you know more than everyone else.

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by rwheels

Didn't know you owned this website.

Oh, I don't. I'm just the guy that says what other's think, but won't say. Not everyone....but most.

Originally Posted by leopard print

Science and the universe itself fascinates the hell out of me. I watch way too many Youtube videos about the subject.

However, a part of me wonders if we as humans think we're smarter than we actually are. By we, I mean the scientists and others that are certainly a whole lot smarter than I am. But we want use what we understand about science to explain or theorize about a universe that we've been a part of for arguably 0.0000000000000000001% of it's existence (not exact, but you get the point).

By no means am I saying we shouldn't try to explain or theorize. I just think there is so much more at play than we can ever comprehend.

Agree completely here. We have limited senses as it is, anything beyond our senses we are limited on comprehension.

Originally Posted by TiMSport

And to con people into thinking you know more than everyone else.

This is more accurate than anyone wants to admit.

[rmanm4]

Guys...this thread is not suppose to be about who is smarter or who is stupid.

I started this to have people interested in science and universe theories to talk freely without being judged. A place that you can dump your thoughts about what you have read or "figured" out when you were high!

Post or write about what you find interesting!

[m630]

As someone that has a passion for Cosmology its interesting to see this thread. Im not a scientist by trade but have been studying space science, ie physics for about 30years now. I dont find anything more important as a human than trying to understand the whys of the universe. I have some thoughts ive been working on for quite some time but no answers yet that are worth sharing.
I agree the universe is more complex than anyone can imagine, just like planetary science and the complexities of our earth-moon system where politics have no place in driving out understanding of what is actually occuring today.
I do not believe formal training is this subject is a requisite and in fact can be a deteriment in many cases. Those that paved the way had no such training in most cases and yet they have postulated and theorized and have been proven right over time which ultimately means that all of us have the inate ability to develop these skills if we choose to by ourselves.
It has been said that life itself is merely the universe trying to understand itself and I tend to believe this as Im 100% certain that what we as humans are doing on this planet could not be more meanless as a whole.
Ive noted some that say why “waste” the resources looking outward when we have so many problems here at home and I can only shake my head. And while I have very little use for the exploits and games of the billionaire class, I am very happy that the ego of some of them may actually benefit all of us in the long run. I am a fan of Elon precisely because he has the guts to say it outloud and actually try to advance our ability to survive outside of this world which is the only long term hope for humans in any case.
As for cosmology, while I understand more than most and have confidence in the work that many professionals are doing to advance the subject, I also tend to believe there are some fundemental assumptions that are being misunderstood if not completely wrong and this inhibits the collective advancement of out understanding.
I truly beleive our understanding of light is fundementally flawed and may solve many of our current misunderstandings.
I also believe that we have to acknowledge that we know so little that we have to step back and think different so to speak. When the consensus speaks about matter for example and then further posulates about dark matter and dark energy with such precision we all must question the illogical thinking that causes such statements. Again, I have thoughts about these problems but its still a work in progress.
I do believe the answers are out there and we have the inate ability to understand them if we really try, it just requires a level of focus that is difficult as a hobby. But maybe ill figure it out some day, or maybe one of you will. Ill be hoping for all of us as its our only hope in the end.

[rmanm4]

Originally Posted by m630

As someone that has a passion for Cosmology its interesting to see this thread. Im not a scientist by trade but have been studying space science, ie physics for about 30years now. I dont find anything more important as a human than trying to understand the whys of the universe. I have some thoughts ive been working on for quite some time but no answers yet that are worth sharing.
I agree the universe is more complex than anyone can imagine, just like planetary science and the complexities of our earth-moon system where politics have no place in driving out understanding of what is actually occuring today.
I do not believe formal training is this subject is a requisite and in fact can be a deteriment in many cases. Those that paved the way had no such training in most cases and yet they have postulated and theorized and have been proven right over time which ultimately means that all of us have the inate ability to develop these skills if we choose to by ourselves.
It has been said that life itself is merely the universe trying to understand itself and I tend to believe this as Im 100% certain that what we as humans are doing on this planet could not be more meanless as a whole.
Ive noted some that say why “waste” the resources looking outward when we have so many problems here at home and I can only shake my head. And while I have very little use for the exploits and games of the billionaire class, I am very happy that the ego of some of them may actually benefit all of us in the long run. I am a fan of Elon precisely because he has the guts to say it outloud and actually try to advance our ability to survive outside of this world which is the only long term hope for humans in any case.
As for cosmology, while I understand more than most and have confidence in the work that many professionals are doing to advance the subject, I also tend to believe there are some fundemental assumptions that are being misunderstood if not completely wrong and this inhibits the collective advancement of out understanding.
I truly beleive our understanding of light is fundementally flawed and may solve many of our current misunderstandings.
I also believe that we have to acknowledge that we know so little that we have to step back and think different so to speak. When the consensus speaks about matter for example and then further posulates about dark matter and dark energy with such precision we all must question the illogical thinking that causes such statements. Again, I have thoughts about these problems but its still a work in progress.
I do believe the answers are out there and we have the inate ability to understand them if we really try, it just requires a level of focus that is difficult as a hobby. But maybe ill figure it out some day, or maybe one of you will. Ill be hoping for all of us as its our only hope in the end.

Well said!

I've been doing some reading on twisted light and its very fascinating!

I have always had a huge fascination with black holes. I think its something the science community needs to spend more time and money on. If we can understand it better, I think it would give us deeper inside into the universe and law of the universe. I really do think it could be the answer to many question we have.

My only problem with it is, to understand it better, we would probably need to create one in a stable environment. But how do you do that without understand it first so you don't create one that swallow's up a radius around it. Maybe ive seen Interstellar too many times!

[UncleWede]

As m630 states, we have to first acknowledge that "we don't have a fucking clue." After that, we need not put down "novel" ideas that may lead us in completely divergent directions from established theory.

When I wander into my backyard at night (drunk or not), glance up, it's so truly AMAZING that there is so much out there I'm still awed by the sheer distances, and my longing to just reach out and touch one of those tiny pinpricks of light, then zoom back into my head and realize that is a gigantic ball of nuclear fire burning thru all that distance.

We have put rule and "laws" to try to contain something we can't possibly hold onto. Why can light only go a single speed? Why must time flow in a LINEAR fashion, and only in one direction? And yet these seemingly arbitrary rules are the basis of our theories.

[m630]

My dream is to see it myself, and I hope within the decade the private space race will bring the cost down 10fold. While I cant justify the 250K for a ticket in VirGalatic, at 25K I would book tomorrow. To see the Earth as a planet would be the highlight of a life imho. Hell I grew up expecting by the year “2000” we would be living on the moon. Well that didnt happen so we can only hope the private sector fills in where our govt failed us.
Its the conceit of humanity that stunts our growth, to think we know it all and are so emphatic in our arguments says it all. Humility is the only path to knowledge and enlightenment. We dont know it all and only hope to understand some day.
Ill keep looking up and outside of this world and hope u all do to, the answers are just waiting for us if we only look.

[Humdizzle]

for anyone with a decent PC you should consider picking up the game Universe Sandbox off Steam. Great time killer.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

As m630 states, we have to first acknowledge that "we don't have a fucking clue." After that, we need not put down "novel" ideas that may lead us in completely divergent directions from established theory.

When I wander into my backyard at night (drunk or not), glance up, it's so truly AMAZING that there is so much out there I'm still awed by the sheer distances, and my longing to just reach out and touch one of those tiny pinpricks of light, then zoom back into my head and realize that is a gigantic ball of nuclear fire burning thru all that distance.

We have put rule and "laws" to try to contain something we can't possibly hold onto. Why can light only go a single speed? Why must time flow in a LINEAR fashion, and only in one direction? And yet these seemingly arbitrary rules are the basis of our theories.

I know you are speaking in a rhetorical way saying, "We don't have a clue"; relatively speaking we probably are close to that end of the spectrum. The ones who didn't have a clue are our ancestors. With the scientific method, we now have proofs & working theories. These can be changed & added to.
One of the best parts of the scientific method is that questioning is rarely cause for ostracism, and is often encouraged.
I still think entropy will rule (see below)!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/17/b...sultPosition=5

[VertigoAtHome]

I'm fascinated by cosmic theory. FWIW, I get my daily fix by following the the Science Space Quora forum. I specifically read anything from Viktor T. Toth, he is amazingly smart guy. Here's a sample from him.

[VertigoAtHome]

How did the universe come into being? Can something come out of nothing? ...

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

As m630 states, we have to first acknowledge that "we don't have a fucking clue." After that, we need not put down "novel" ideas that may lead us in completely divergent directions from established theory.

When I wander into my backyard at night (drunk or not), glance up, it's so truly AMAZING that there is so much out there I'm still awed by the sheer distances, and my longing to just reach out and touch one of those tiny pinpricks of light, then zoom back into my head and realize that is a gigantic ball of nuclear fire burning thru all that distance.

We have put rule and "laws" to try to contain something we can't possibly hold onto. Why can light only go a single speed? Why must time flow in a LINEAR fashion, and only in one direction? And yet these seemingly arbitrary rules are the basis of our theories.

I pretty much disagree with we don't have a clue part. We have space craft operating in interstellar space 43 years past it's launch date. We landed men safely on the moon and came back 53 years ago ON OUR FIRST SHOT. Shit, we even made a car and drove it around on the moon. We've looked at every planet in our solar system and most of their moons. We've landed exploratory machines on two other planets. We can see millions of light years into the Universe.

In my book, that's a lot of calculus that has worked. It's cool to think other parts of space are different, but maybe it works the same.

Then again, the gravity wave came through, so maybe I'm all wet. Lol.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by rmanm4

Lets have deep adult talk about science and the universe......

Here is a theory I have been sitting on for a few years:

We all the know that the universe was created by the big bang.
We also know, and it proves the big bang theory, that the universe is expanding.

Well....what if the universe is like a sign wave. As in the Universe expands till it reaches a limit, then starts to collapse back to the point of the big bang and keeps repeating this forever!?!?!?

What if the dark matter that we can now detect is actually left over matter from the last collapse wave?!?!?

I was just wondering how you know the universe was created by a big bang? That’s a theory. A theory that no one will ever be able to prove or disprove. I just thought it was funny how you started it off with “we all know”. Almost as if you were there and saw it. Kind of like “we all know” the Tampa Bay buccaneers won the Super Bowl last year. I just find your statement very funny.

Out of nothing came everything. All on its own. From nothing. I’m not sure anyone can espouse that verbally and maintain a straight face.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Patton250

....
Out of nothing came everything. All on its own. From nothing. I’m not sure anyone can espouse that verbally and maintain a straight face.

If you understand the scientific method, you do. Before big Bang is unknown territory, and so science only talks of theories here?
Theories are different than proofs.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by rmanm4

I'm sorry, "we" as in the science community. This thread is a science thread and not about religion or faith. Don't get me wrong, I do believe there is a creator that created the big bang and set the "rules" of the universe. Just look at evolution alone, it's damn amazing to see in plants and animals over thousands/millions of years.

Once again evolution is also a theory. It also once again sounds like you witnessed plants and animals over thousands and millions of years. Are you immortal? :-)

Did you know that no human being in all recorded human history has ever witnessed anything evolve? Look at the fruit fly of which scientists have literally breaded hundreds of thousands of generations and each generation always turns out to be a fruit fly. Even when we mess with the DNA sometimes they can get messed up fruit flies but lo and behold in the end it’s always a fruit fly. For some reason people think that when genetic code gets messed up the organism changes. It certainly does but it changes for the worse. Errors in complex genetic code can’t create more complexity. How can an error in genetic code add to an organisms complexity? If a human beings genetic code is messed up and a child is born without a hand and that child grows up and marries another person that has the same birth defect would they start giving birth to children with no hands? Of course not.

Did you know they have “50 million” year old fossils of alligators? Frogs also. The exact same frogs and alligators we have today. So there’s that.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

If you understand the scientific method, you do. Before big Bang is unknown territory, and so science only talks of theories here?
Theories are different than proofs.

No need to resort to condescension. I’m sure it wasn’t purposeful. :-)

I’ve seen most everything they have on the scientific method. At the end it’s still a theory and opinion. A theory that like I said before can never be proven or disproven. Ever. Not even if human beings exist for another million years. It’s a theory you must have faith in.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Patton250

No need to resort to condescension. I’m sure it wasn’t purposeful. :-)

I’ve seen most everything they have on the scientific method. At the end it’s still a theory and opinion. A theory that like I said before can never be proven or disproven. Ever. Not even if human beings exist for another million years. It’s a theory you must have faith in.

Science has hypotheses, theories, proofs, laws... all different.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

Science has hypothosies, theories, proofs, laws... all different.

Yes

[rmanm4]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I was just wondering how you know the universe was created by a big bang? That’s a theory. A theory that no one will ever be able to prove or disprove. I just thought it was funny how you started it off with “we all know”. Almost as if you were there and saw it. Kind of like “we all know” the Tampa Bay buccaneers won the Super Bowl last year. I just find your statement very funny.

Out of nothing came everything. All on its own. From nothing. I’m not sure anyone can espouse that verbally and maintain a straight face.

You really should educate yourself more before coming and attacking. Math (calculations of light thru the universe along with expansion of the universe) along with radiation measurements is proof that the universe started at a point. This theory is not something that came out of someone's ass but years of calculations and modeling!