[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by EdM5

Have you ever been to a GP at all? Well I think you should! You will find out there is actually a great camaraderie between race fans. Hamilton fans sit next to Vettel fans and everyone respects all drivers. No one is talking about shit like army and WWIII. This is racing, not football or NFL!

And just because I'm Dutch it doesn't mean I can't be critical towards Max. As I've said, he had it coming. At the same time time I think the incident was Hamilton's fault but that's just my irrelevant opinion (most experts think race incident). Getting physical in Copse is extremely dangerous anyway so that's why I posted the YT video that shows the heavy impact. If you think I showed the video out of Schadenfreude you completely missed the point.

And believe it or not, I actually would love to see Max win the WDC! But to win a WDC you need a bit of the Prost approach. Lewis learned this through the years and ultimately his style became the perfect blend of Senna and Prost.

I can't remember doing this at all but here it goes:

You sir, for the 2nd day in-a-row, win The Internet. Congratulations!!

You are spot-on about race fans at the track. There is no place of greater camaraderie and singularity of love for our sport. The crap that goes on in this sub-forum and many others, globally, doesn't happen at the track.

Further, your analysis is perfect on the state of affairs with Max and Red Bull. The elbows out approach is ultimately self-limiting. While it is spectacular and exciting for fans to watch, the Niki Lauda, Allain Prost, Sir Lewis Hamilton approach is best for winning in the post 1980 F1.

There are lots of spectacular drivers...my first fav driver, Gilles Villeneuve was at the top of the list. Best driver of his time but ZERO championships for a few different reasons.

Max is spectacular but only has a handful of WDC caliber wins. He has to make better decisions on the track while under pressure. Unless he changes this, it is highly unlikely that he will be a single WDC, let alone a multiple WDC.

Great analysis.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

"Victory or death" !

''Hamilton is guilty but the 'stewpots' spared him''
FIA must step in now, I have already written to them.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Mr Pete

Sorry if this was posted already…interesting perspective from a unbiased Brit (it seems)

Was going to post this this morning. My take of the incident as well.

Side note, this is a great channel for performance driving commentary and coaching.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

It's not the same as asking afterwards rather than from the seat and toning down the exuberance afterwards in light of the situation.

No matter what Sir Lewis does, you will find fault. Had Sir Lewis stopped his car trackside to check on Max you would have said he was doing so to torment Max.

This is ridiculous in all ways.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

No matter what Sir Lewis does, you will find fault. Had Sir Lewis stopped his car trackside to check on Max you would have said he was doing so to torment Max.

This is ridiculous in all ways.

You cannot be further from the truth, I just want some common sense in light of what has happened, what Wolff did just after the incident was out of order.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

You cannot be further from the truth, I just want some common sense in light of what has happened, what Wolff did just after the incident was out of order.

Ah...and Horner as well as Marko? Any thoughts on them?

[tdott]

Originally Posted by MilehighM3

The leader should never lift to allow second to take the lead! What world do you live in where that makes any sort of sense?

Happens all the time, open your eyes. It's called live to fight another day.

Lewis and other drivers has done it many times knowing MAX would have caused a crash.

Case in point, Max leading Brazil 2018, Max got aggressive trying to lap a back marker while in the lead. Even if it was 100% Ocon's fault, it doesn't matter because it costed him the win.

Being right/not at fault in a race, doesn't earn you points.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

''Hamilton is guilty but the 'stewpots' spared him''
FIA must step in now, I have already written to them.

I fear the worst at the Hungaroring ! The revenge will be sweet...
Hopefully MAX is recovered 100% by then .He's still dizzy today .
No wonder with the impact of 51 G ...
1G is the punch (a smack) of your own body weight !
MAX body weight is 67 KG => 67 KG X 51(G) = MAX is been punched by *3417 KG !

The Merc's ran at Silverstone with much less rear wing vs the 16-B .

Meanwhile the 'COVID discussions going on to cancel Spa-Francorchamps , same situation at Zantvoort !

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

He has to make better decisions on the track while under pressure. Unless he changes this, it is highly unlikely that he will be a single WDC, let alone a multiple WDC.

This is a valid observation. While I believe it's possible Max could achieve a WDC with this 100% assassin mindset, he'll probably win more if he learns that every once in a while discretion is the better part of valor.

In a pre-race chat with my son who seems to interpret every race as a game 7... I pointed out that Max could finish in 2nd place for the next four races, with HAM taking each win, and still be leading the championship. And accordingly, that it may be time for Max to reduce risk, pick his spots. The one thing he needs to avoid is a DNF as Lewis takes a win.

And as HAM followed LEC during that stint after the restart, not really making inroads, but controlling the gap and probably, almost certainly, working some strategy, that was a window into a seasoned champion's mindset. His fight wasn't with LEC at that moment in the race. It was to come later.

Will be interesting to see if/how Max matures. I see in him the same 10/10ths mindset that gets certain athletes into the NHL or NFL, but many of those guys also often have shortened careers due to injuries, etc. and never realize their full potential. Problem is, they can't operate otherwise, it's not in them. We'll see if Max can learn to turn it on/off.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

Ah...and Horner as well as Marko? Any thoughts on them?

They have every reason to complain as Max was the ''victim'' and his car wrecked in an avoidable collision. That's what I mean about common sense.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

They have every reason to complain as Max was the ''victim'' and his car wrecked in an avoidable collision. That's what I mean about common sense.

Oh...so saying Sir Lewis deliberately crashed Max out of the race and tried to kill him is common sense?

[tdott]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

They have every reason to complain as Max was the ''victim'' and his car wrecked in an avoidable collision. That's what I mean about common sense.

FIA has already said they don't consider consequences after the incident when accessing the penalty they can only consider the facts of the incident.

So Max being out of the race and Lewis winning the race doesn't factor into what the penalty is. If max spun and re-joined the penalty would be the same.

If max was injured, and sadly lets say ended his career, it sounds like the penalty would be the same.

Harsh, but it's not like what Schumacher did in 1997 to Villeneuve. Schumacher got disqualified and lost all his points that season. Schumacher had intent to crash and take the other guy out, it didn't work and he took himself out, Villeneuve continued the race, but Schumacher still got a pretty harsh punishment.

https://racer.com/2021/07/19/fia-exp...ilton-penalty/

[Mr Pete]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

Oh...so saying Sir Lewis deliberately crashed Max out of the race and tried to kill him is common sense?

I don't think people have said Ham did anything with ill intent. I personally do not believe Ham did. But if I point the blame, it's slightly skewed towards Ham. Tough situation due to how close they were fighting for position, but definitely avoidable.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by tdott

FIA has already said they don't consider consequences after the incident when accessing the penalty they can only consider the facts of the incident.

So Max being out of the race and Lewis winning the race doesn't factor into what the penalty is. If max spun and re-joined the penalty would be the same.

If max was injured, and sadly lets say ended his career, it sounds like the penalty would be the same.

Harsh, but it's not like what Schumacher did in 1997 to Villeneuve. Schumacher got disqualified and lost all his points that season. Schumacher had intent to crash and take the other guy out, it didn't work and he took himself out, Villeneuve continued the race, but Schumacher still got a pretty harsh punishment.

https://racer.com/2021/07/19/fia-exp...ilton-penalty/

Your statement depends of the ongoing situation !
In other words : Meanwhile the "Red Bull lawyers" are all over it...
As I said : This Isn't over yet ! Because the repair expenses of the B-16 can reach *one (1) Million US-Dollars !

[tdott]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Your statement depends of the ongoing situation !
In other words : Meanwhile the "Red Bull lawyers" are all over it...
As I said : This Isn't over yet ! Because the expenses of the B-16 can reach *one (1) Million US-Dollars !

From FIA point of view, the penalty accessed are only based on the incident, not what happened after.

No offence, but crashes are part of racing.... lawyers will tell hot head red bulls that.

lol, what they want reimbursement? Perhaps all the crashes max caused they should go back and pay for.

That is silly and has never in the history of F1 ever happened.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Mr Pete

I don't think people have said Ham did anything with ill intent. I personally do not believe Ham did. But if I point the blame, it's slightly skewed towards Ham. Tough situation due to how close they were fighting for position, but definitely avoidable.

Sir7Hammy had room enough on the inside of Copse but he dived in too fast !
He missed the apex completely as he is used to ran in clean air only ...

On the other hand : If HAM braked harder ,the Merc locked completely up because he ran too fast inside with his angle on the inside !
And his race was over ...

#TorpedoSir7Hammy

[tdott]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Sir7Hammy had room enough on the inside of Copse but he dived in too fast !
He missed the apex completely as he is used to ran in clean air only ...

On the other hand : If HAM braked harder ,the Merc locked completely up because he ran too fast inside with his angle on the inside !
And his race was over ...

#TorpedoSir7Hammy

Still not proving there was any intent.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by tdott

From FIA point of view, the penalty accessed are only based on the incident, not what happened after.

No offence, but crashes are part of racing.... lawyers will tell hot head red bulls that.

lol, what they want reimbursement? Perhaps all the crashes max caused they should go back and pay for.

That is silly and has never in the history of F1 ever happened.

Just let us kill each other , the one still alive wins the race !

F1 Isn't RollerBall ...

Something must change ASAP . Before one is 'RIP at 325+ km/h in a wall !
MAX was very ....Very lucky with HAM's kart move at Copse !
Next time it can be over for 'one them ! And the next time will come in the next race !

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

And as HAM followed LEC during that stint after the restart, not really making inroads, but controlling the gap and probably, almost certainly, working some strategy, that was a window into a seasoned champion's mindset. His fight wasn't with LEC at that moment in the race. It was to come later.

Nah, nah, nah...that's giving HAM too much credit. LEC was just as fast or faster out front in clean air on the yellows. HAM even said so. That's why Ferrari kept him on them so long. HAM only caught and passed because LEC's Ferrari didn't perform on the whites AT ALL. Plus he was having engine problems...Grant it, controlling the gap and strategy would have probably still worked but that's not the case here. HAM was doing all he could to hang onto LEC. If not for engine problems LEC had a good chance to BARELY hold off HAM for the win.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Just let us kill each other , the one still alive wins the race !

F1 Isn't RollerBall ...

Something must change ASAP . Before one is 'RIP at 325+ km/h in a wall !
MAX was very ....Very lucky with HAM's kart move at Copse !
Next time it can be over for 'one them ! And the next time will come in the next race !

Has Max ever put anyone in danger on the track from your point of view? Either from a mistake or aggressive driving?

Max put himself in that spot on the corner with his aggressive driving and trying to block HAM down the straight to the corner. It's lucky they didn't hit there before the corner. Then Max not wanting to give an inch braked (or lifted) way later than Lewis putting himself more out of position in said corner. That is why the stewards only gave the 10 second penalty as both were playing a dangerous game of chicken in the most dangerous spot on the track.

Like I said earlier, 60 HAM and 40 VER. Max is not blameless here and needs to learn from it as this is his championship to lose.

As for Jos deleting Toto's number. Who cares? It was always a longshot for Max to end up at MB anyways. And if MB has the dominant car again in the future and the money is right, I'd bet suddenly Jos/Max will take MBs/Totos phone call again.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by tdott

Still not proving there was any intent.

I didn't . I (never) said that !
A 7-time world champ at his home track should know that at Copse , a 'dive at that speed wasn't possible on the inside ...
He couldn't make it with that speed in that sharp angle on the inside .
BTW : MAX gave him room enough on the outside ...But HAM was diving too fast .

It's 100 % HAM's fault !

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by minn19

Has Max ever put anyone in danger on the track from your point of view? Either from a mistake or aggressive driving?

Max put himself in that spot on the corner with his aggressive driving and trying to block HAM down the straight to the corner. It's lucky they didn't hit there before the corner. Then Max not wanting to give an inch braked way later than Lewis putting himself more out of position in said corner. That is why the stewards only gave the 10 second penalty as both were playing a dangerous game of chicken in the most dangerous spot on the track.

Lie I said earlier 60 HAM and 40 VER. Max is not blameless here and needs to learn from it as this is his championship to lose.

As for Jos deleting Toto's number. Who cares? It was always a longshot for Max to end up at MB anyways. And if MB has the dominant car again in the future and the money is right I'd bet suddenly Jos/Max will take MBs/Totos phone call again.

In short : "MAX Isn't a Bottas" !
And MAX will never , ever brake for Hammy while he is leading the race .

Let's us take MAX out the F1 . And F1 Isn't worth it anymore to watch it by the Mercedes dominance !
Because Checo in the same Red Bull is nowhere !