[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I caught one in the forearm today on a two-deputy traffic stop scenario where a "bystander" raising commotion on the sidewalk in an attempt to disrupt my stop began firing at us. I took him out and had to apply a tourniquet on myself. All good training.

That's just not fair...I want to play too.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

That's just not fair...I want to play too.

You have the Cali invite, remember?

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

You have the Cali invite, remember?

I remember. Will you let me play with the sirens and you gun?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

I remember. Will you let me play with the sirens and you gun?

Yep!!! You can play with alllllllllll of the guns.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Onesie

I'd say "get a room", but I'm sure Steve would say "I'm trying!" So I'll just let you guys do your thing lol

I cracked up laughing!

[UncleWede]

So, are these "prop guns"???

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

So, are these "prop guns"???

They are Gen 1 M&P 9mm handguns with the barrels swapped out. The barrels in the training guns shoot 9mm paint rounds. If you were to swap the barrels, they'd fire regular 9mm rounds.

[UncleWede]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

They are Gen 1 M&P 9mm handguns with the barrels swapped out. The barrels in the training guns shoot 9mm paint rounds. If you were to swap the barrels, they'd fire regular 9mm rounds.

Hence the blue. The magazine is yellow, but would still hold a 9mm round?


Asking for a friend

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

Hence the blue. The magazine is yellow, but would still hold a 9mm round?


Asking for a friend

The slides are painted blue and the bottoms of the magazines are painted yellow just to add visual cues. The paint round is a 9mm round, but with a paintball tip rather than a bullet. It's still the same casing, primer, etc. It is still capable of live fire.

[UncleWede]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

The slides are painted blue and the bottoms of the magazines are painted yellow just to add visual cues. The paint round is a 9mm round, but with a paintball tip rather than a bullet. It's still the same casing, primer, etc. It is still capable of live fire.

In your scenario below, would you have still been able to take the shooter out after he hit your arm with a real projectile? So you would have to swap hands on the trigger?

It's great that you can get these "as close to real world training" done, feel at least a level of the stress involved.

It's the part of CPR training that is missing for me. I know they have the much more expensive Annie, that can simulate breath and heart, and report on correct compression levels, amount of air entering the lungs, etc. My worksite won't spring for us to get that training level I still go every year when I see it offered.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

In your scenario below, would you have still been able to take the shooter out after he hit your arm with a real projectile? So you would have to swap hands on the trigger?

It's great that you can get these "as close to real world training" done, feel at least a level of the stress involved.

I preface my answer with this…..


…..had my partner in the scenario been one of the partners I work with in the field daily, I likely wouldn't have been shot at all.

In the scenario, I was the driver and my partner was the book-man. The book-man's primary role in a traffic stop is to hang back a little, listen to what's going on with my interaction, but keep an eye on the surroundings. My book-man in the scenario was caught up dealing with the driver [that I was already engaged with] and didn't address the sidewalk problem at all. I had my attention too divided looking at the driver's hands (…and dealing with his non-compliance) and assessing the other obvious threat directly across from me (…the scenario pits you in a situation with no immediate concealment or cover, which is a realistic situation on a traffic stop). I wanted to tell my book-man, "Dude, deal with that asshole on the sidewalk," but I didn't want to hurt feelings.

The sidewalk suspect pulled out a gun and started firing directly at me, so I was hit in my support forearm as I returned fire. Had my partner already had his gun pointed downrange, he would've had the tactical advantage and would've been able to shoot following furtive movements on behalf of the suspect. I likely wouldn't have been shot at all.

To the meat and potatoes of your question…..

…the round hit my support forearm, not my strong side forearm. I wouldn't have needed to swap hands. We did work scenarios where you were forced to do everything one-handed though. You can rack the slide on your boot, duty belt, sidewalk, etc. Tourniquet application was timed as well as strong side and support side fire-reload-fire drills.

[UncleWede]

So, you won't be requesting a new partner???

2-person cars thru-out? We only have 2 people in a car when one is the FTO.

I had to meet with chief/staff Tuesday because suddenly they want a MDC in EVERY available unit. "You only have 4 officers and a CSO in the field at any time, 8 MDC should be plenty"
He pulled the Public Safety card with my boss, and now the project for next FY is suddenly in my lap for yesterday. . .

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I preface my answer with this…..


…..had my partner in the scenario been one of the partners I work with in the field daily, I likely wouldn't have been shot at all.

In the scenario, I was the driver and my partner was the book-man. The book-man's primary role in a traffic stop is to hang back a little, listen to what's going on with my interaction, but keep an eye on the surroundings. My book-man in the scenario was caught up dealing with the driver [that I was already engaged with] and didn't address the sidewalk problem at all. I had my attention too divided looking at the driver's hands (…and dealing with his non-compliance) and assessing the other obvious threat directly across from me (…the scenario pits you in a situation with no immediate concealment or cover, which is a realistic situation on a traffic stop). I wanted to tell my book-man, "Dude, deal with that asshole on the sidewalk," but I didn't want to hurt feelings.

The sidewalk suspect pulled out a gun and started firing directly at me, so I was hit in my support forearm as I returned fire. Had my partner already had his gun pointed downrange, he would've had the tactical advantage and would've been able to shoot following furtive movements on behalf of the suspect. I likely wouldn't have been shot at all.

To the meat and potatoes of your question…..

…the round hit my support forearm, not my strong side forearm. I wouldn't have needed to swap hands. We did work scenarios where you were forced to do everything one-handed though. You can rack the slide on your boot, duty belt, sidewalk, etc. Tourniquet application was timed as well as strong side and support side fire-reload-fire drills.

Sounds like the scenarios haven't changed much.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

So, you won't be requesting a new partner???

2-person cars thru-out? We only have 2 people in a car when one is the FTO.

I had to meet with chief/staff Tuesday because suddenly they want a MDC in EVERY available unit. "You only have 4 officers and a CSO in the field at any time, 8 MDC should be plenty"
He pulled the Public Safety card with my boss, and now the project for next FY is suddenly in my lap for yesterday. . .

I don't have a partner in the car. I prefer to be solo. I do have good partners on the beat though. There are other two-man hoops on my shift including training cars (…when we actually have trainees; currently only two on my shift).

Interesting they want MDC's in every unit. I'll have to check to see if all of our available cars have them. I don't believe the Crown Victoria's driven by Homicide Detectives, etc. have them. If it's a marked car, it has one though.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf993

Sounds like the scenarios haven't changed much.

The only thing that has changed over the years are the tactics related to clearing buildings. Some of the stuff we did yesterday was different and uncomfortable compared to how I was originally trained.

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

The only thing that has changed over the years are the tactics related to clearing buildings. Some of the stuff we did yesterday was different and uncomfortable compared to how I was originally trained.

The constant fine tuning and lessons learned from others mistakes.

[Fly320s]

MDC?

Sedan, are you running irons or RDS? Do you have the option?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Fly320s

MDC?

Sedan, are you running irons or RDS? Do you have the option?

Mobile Data/Digital Computer…..


I have tritium sights on my handguns. We can use RDS's if we qualify expert at the range. I haven't taken the test and I don't own any handguns with slides that are RDS ready.

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Mobile Data/Digital Computer…..


I have tritium sights on my handguns. We can use RDS's if we qualify expert at the range. I haven't taken the test and I don't own any handguns with slides that are RDS ready.

Unless something has drastically changed the vast majority of police shootings happen up close and involve instinctive shooting where using a full sight picture isn't the reality.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Murf993

Unless something has drastically changed the vast majority of police shootings happen up close and involve instinctive shooting where using a full sight picture isn't the reality.

That is true. Most shootings occur within 3-5 yards.

[Murf993]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

That is true. Most shootings occur within 3-5 yards.

First round is likely fired before you can think about getting a sight picture.

[Fly320s]

Originally Posted by Murf993

First round is likely fired before you can think about getting a sight picture.

You're doing it wrong.