02-10-2013, 12:37 AM | #23 |
Banned
149
Rep 2,014
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-10-2013, 03:00 AM | #24 |
Enlisted Member
0
Rep 44
Posts |
4.8 per 100,000 in the US. 1.2 per 100,000 in the UK.
__________________
2010 VW Golf R manual. Soon to be for sale. 328i Msport here I come.
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-10-2013, 03:36 AM | #25 |
Major
228
Rep 1,100
Posts |
That figure refers to homicide rates not violent crime in general correct? But you have to take into account that the crime/homicide rate in the US relates to our problem with poverty, which leads to crime and gang violence among other things, it's a very complicated issue that goes far beyond gun ownership rights. Look at Mexico, guns are illegal there, yet violent crime and murder are rampant and it is a far more dangerous place to live than the US!
__________________
MY PROGRESS LINK: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=766852
''Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.''Ernest Hemingway |
Appreciate
0
|
02-10-2013, 05:49 AM | #26 |
Private
11
Rep 70
Posts |
Well, in Kill Bill there's a scene where 80 people got killed....by a woman haha
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-10-2013, 10:12 AM | #27 |
Captain
69
Rep 658
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-10-2013, 12:12 PM | #28 | |
Major
129
Rep 1,432
Posts |
Quote:
There are also questions as to how violent crime is recorded. I've heard that in the UK, they are more likely to record events as violent crime that would not be recorded as such in the US. I don't have any data to back this up, however. The UK is rated above places like Brazil and Russia in violent crime, for instance, which makes no logical sense. Having said all this, you raise a great point. Poverty and oppression beget crime and violence. Vermont has some of the least restrictive gun laws in the country, and has a murder rate of 1.3 per 100,000, which is on par with countries like the UK. Which is about 1/4th of the rate in a state like California, which has far more restrictive laws. What this means is that gun reform alone is not the solution. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-10-2013, 05:37 PM | #29 |
is probably out riding.
6062
Rep 2,292
Posts |
__________________
"There is no greater tyranny than that which is perpetrated under the shield of the law and in the name of justice. -Charles de Secondat"
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-10-2013, 06:07 PM | #30 | |
Enlisted Member
0
Rep 44
Posts |
Quote:
What it shows is that the UK is far above Western and Northern Europe, Australia, NZ etc etc. Yep, Mexico is worse. But is that really the level that you want to measure yourself against as a nation?
__________________
2010 VW Golf R manual. Soon to be for sale. 328i Msport here I come.
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-10-2013, 08:42 PM | #31 | |
Major
228
Rep 1,100
Posts |
Quote:
The point is this- gun control didn't work in Mexico, and it will not work in the US either.
__________________
MY PROGRESS LINK: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=766852
''Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.''Ernest Hemingway |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-10-2013, 09:01 PM | #32 |
Major
160
Rep 1,134
Posts
Drives: '07 M Roadster
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Warner Robins, GA
|
Depends on the end goal. What if the government wants to disarm all the law abiding people so we all get murdered by gangs and thugs? What if in some secret sub-basement meeting this was the only logical way they came up with to combat over population?!
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-10-2013, 09:28 PM | #33 |
Banned
42
Rep 1,462
Posts |
Are you a doomsday prepper?
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-10-2013, 10:49 PM | #34 | |
Enlisted Member
0
Rep 44
Posts |
Quote:
The next highest developed country on that list is Switzerland with 3.64. Australia, you know, with quite stringent gun restrictions, is at 1.05 I can clearly see why you are so proud of that. But, jeeze, it ain't as bad as Mexico so it must be fine
__________________
2010 VW Golf R manual. Soon to be for sale. 328i Msport here I come.
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-10-2013, 10:58 PM | #35 | |
Major
228
Rep 1,100
Posts |
Quote:
When will you gun control people realize that this isn't the UK! We don't want to give up our right to protect ourselves and we will not, we don't give a shit about your reasons for why we should give up our rights. We don't care what you do in your coutry and you shouldn't try to dictate our behavior either.
__________________
MY PROGRESS LINK: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=766852
''Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.''Ernest Hemingway |
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-10-2013, 11:36 PM | #36 | |
is probably out riding.
6062
Rep 2,292
Posts |
Quote:
Also, it should be noted, since most who are for gun control believe less guns will result in less gun deaths. When you compare gun homicides to the number of guns in countries, the US has about 38 other countries ahead of it. If guns are the problem and more guns equal more of a problem then looking at the data in this fashion is applicable. For the most part Homicides per gun coincides with homicides per 100,000 residents. There are some anomalies though. Take Columbia with 51.77 firearm homicides per 100k. They only have 5900 guns per 100k which totals .008775 firearm homicides per gun. Drop to Mexico with 9.88 firearm homicides per 100k. They only have 15,000 guns per 100k which totals .000659 firearm homicides per gun. Australia has the same number of guns per 100k as Mexico, but only have .44 firearm homicides per 100k which gives them only .000029 firearm homicides per gun. The US has 4.14 firearm homicides per 100k but with 88000 guns per 100k that puts us at .000047 firearm homicides per gun. As a side note, the place largely regarded to be the safest place to live in regards to gun violence, Japan only has .02 firearm homicides per 100k. Yet with only 600 guns per 100k that gives them .000033 firearm homicides per gun. Only 5 spots lower than the US. This bit of data seems to be excluded in all gun homicide comparisons. But when you include it, and you must if your argument is more guns equal more deaths, it paints a pretty different story. Of the 38 countries that rank above the US in Homicides per gun, 23 of them have a lower homicide per 100k figure than the US. Another interesting fact about homicides per gun is that the 22 countries ranked lower than the US on average represent 20,000 guns per 100k while the 38 countries ranked higher than the US on average only have 10,000 guns per 100k. I'm not saying that some logical, meaningful changes won't help us get our numbers down. However, the facts seem to contradict the per capita myth that more guns = more gun homicides. And no one seems to care about the facts.
__________________
"There is no greater tyranny than that which is perpetrated under the shield of the law and in the name of justice. -Charles de Secondat"
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-11-2013, 12:36 AM | #37 | |
Enlisted Member
0
Rep 44
Posts |
Quote:
There appears to be some problems in society that is exacerbated by easy access to guns. UK gangland culture shares a lot of those similarities, but with much harder access to guns, hence you get more stabbings etc. I lived in a housing estate in Salford, a very poor area of Manchester in the North for a while and it is not a good place to be growing up - but there is good education, health and social services in place so there is a bit more hope. The difference comes down to ease of multiple targets imo. As I said, I'm a gun owner. I think it is important to have an understanding of guns, knowledge of the limitations of your gun and the mechanics behind the process. But that can be achieved with a .22 much more effectively than a semi.
__________________
2010 VW Golf R manual. Soon to be for sale. 328i Msport here I come.
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-11-2013, 04:29 AM | #38 |
Major
126
Rep 1,487
Posts |
Violence with blades has been rife here for years as it is anywhere else. Banning guns has just limited the murder rate here no doubt. Human's are a barbaric species.
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-11-2013, 07:10 AM | #39 |
Major
160
Rep 1,134
Posts
Drives: '07 M Roadster
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Warner Robins, GA
|
No, I'm in the military, everything is already prepped for me, I just like making fun of the conspiracy theorists. I only want firearms for my own personal recreation. In all reality if anything ever happened someone will just give me a select-fire rifle and as much ammo as I can carry. My safes and ammo storage right now would make some of you cry with pure jealousy, I just don't own any of it.
The main thing people need to realize when they look at the crime statistics is culture. Culture (and population) is why we have so many more murders in the U.S. than that of the UK.
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-11-2013, 09:23 AM | #40 |
Major
197
Rep 1,317
Posts |
No it’s not.
Our ever restrictive firearms laws were knee jerk reactions to TWO events (Hungerford in 1986 and Dunblane in 1996) involving legally held weapons. As a result the laws only addressed legally held weapons, which formed a minute percentage of gun related crime. The restrictive nature of the UK guns laws has had zero impact on gun crime statistics as a whole. For example, despite the total ban on legal ownership of handguns, imposed under the 1997 Firearms Amendment, research carried out following the implementation of the Act saw a 40 per cent increase in the number of gun crime incidents in the UK... For 2010/11, 9.3% of all homicides in England and Wales involved the use of a firearm, which was the highest proportion since 2001/2, it was 2.2% for Scotland, this despite the more restrictive laws since 1997. Also, in England and Wales, handguns (despite being banned) accounted for 44% of all homicides committed, whereas shotguns & rifles (not-self loading or full-auto rifles which were banned in 1987) which can still legally be owned in the UK only accounted for 9% for shotguns and 1% for rifles. At the same time not unsurprisingly given the gang culture connection, young people are disproportionately the victims of gun crime: 15 to 29-year-olds comprise 20 per cent of the population but were victims in 45 per cent of firearms offences (excluding air weapons) in 2010/11. Is the UK a safer place because of strict laws on legal ownership? Not in the least.
__________________
2017 X5 4.0dSE ~ Atlas Cedar:Ind.Amaro Brown Merino&Piano Blk, Sport Auto, DHP, Comfort seats, Cold weather pack, HK audio, Electric towbar, Sun protection glass.
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-11-2013, 09:57 AM | #41 | |
is probably out riding.
6062
Rep 2,292
Posts |
Quote:
There are at least 16 other countries which fall into that category of having a fraction of the guns the US has with more firearm homicides. And as mentioned before, 38 other countries where one of their firearms are responsible for more deaths than one firearm in the US. I'm not trying to justify the firearm homicide rate in the US, it's too high. I'm just trying to put things into perspective for those who are for taking up of our guns. From my previous post, i find the most interesting fact to be; on a list of 60 countries ranked by homicides per firearm, the US ranks just below middle. (38 countries ranked higher and 22 countries ranked lower.) The countries on the bottom portion of the list, (less gun deaths) average double the amount of guns in their country than the countries on the top portion of the list. (more gun deaths) For those missing the point... the countries with more gun deaths have less guns while the countries with less gun deaths have more guns. Go figure.... It seems that you don't really have a dog in this fight, but these facts prove that having less guns doesn't always mean having less gun related homicides. And again, i'm not saying that some meaningful legislation can't be introduced to help curb some over all gun violence in America, but simply banning guns because they look scary isn't the solution. I'm not sure if you've been following the other debate threads, but in America, the guns that NY and CA are going after with their bans are responsible for about 60 of the firearms homicides per year. That's 60 out of about 13,000 deaths per year. You said you used to write legislation, does this make sense to you? If you really wanted to reduct gun violence in America, would you start there? If so, why?
__________________
"There is no greater tyranny than that which is perpetrated under the shield of the law and in the name of justice. -Charles de Secondat"
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-11-2013, 08:59 PM | #43 | |
Enlisted Member
0
Rep 44
Posts |
Quote:
And it easier to do that than to implement a workable system of restriction, usage, storage and enforcement requirements that would take time, money and effort to put in place. This kind of cheap politicking is why I left that job. The issue to me relates to both culture and ease of access. And I don't know what the answer is as the two are so closely interrelated. Why are their so many more spree killings/shooting rampages in the US then in other countries with a similar level of social/economic development. And that is what the public focuses on. No one cares if a couple of gang members shoot each other.
__________________
2010 VW Golf R manual. Soon to be for sale. 328i Msport here I come.
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
02-12-2013, 04:01 AM | #44 | |
Captain
30
Rep 769
Posts |
The problem with looking at a statistic like homicides per firearm is the issue of people with multiple firearms. Most people I know with guns own more than one so this biases the figure downwards lessening the severity. For example if you compared two hypothetical countries each with only 2 people. Country 1 has 2 guns owned by one person and murders the other person in the country that would equate to 1 homicide per 2 guns or 0.5 homicides per gun. Country 2 has 1 gun owned by one person and murders the other person in their country which equates to 1 murder per firearm. Both countries experienced the same murder rate per capita but one has half the rate of homicides per firearm because of multiple firearm ownership. You can't just look at the firearm because someone has to use one to murder someone else but only one - you can't murder someone with more than one gun... at least statistically lol.
Quote:
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|