[325 Baller]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Sto...912938,00.html

Yesterday, there were 23 families on hand to take President Saddam's money. Those honoured included a Palestinian policeman and a host of young men who sought glory in a largely futile death.

but you are right these papers saying this are lying to us.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by 325 Baller

For the same reason that you cant give bush credit that the stock market is now at an all time high, you cant blame him that more people are withouht healthcare then ever before. This shows the ineffectual congress (democrats are now the marjority). Legislation is passed by congress, proposed by the president just because he couldnt get his legislation passed doesnt show he is at fault. Reread your civics book to learn what the power of the president really is. A direct example of this is bush proposing two immagration bills (whether you like them or not) that didnt even get the oppotunity to be voted on by the now majority led democat congress.

Actually, I cannot agree on the healthcare comment at all because NOTHING has been done about it in last 6 years...
We had strong markets/economy inthe late 90's, then bad when Clinton was leaving -- I doubt either happened because of his great/poor managing...

Same stands for Bush

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by 325 Baller

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Sto...912938,00.html



but you are right these papers saying this are lying to us.

Washington Post & Guardian...keep it coming...

I guess, now I see the reason why only Brits and us bought the whole Iraq war and the WMD thing...(and a few brown-nosing countries with a great contribution of 3000 soldiers all together...)

I guess the rest of the world was so stupid not to believe Guardian and WP...

Again, SH has never done anything bad to us -- proven many times before. I believe that Iran (and Syria) is much greater threat threat to Israel, but I doubt we will ever touch them...too capable at this moment...

[zenmaster]

People with ideas should be running this country.

[ganeil]

The question I posed was specifically about Cheney. If you read what was said of him by the mainstream media before 2000 and then now, there has been a profound shift. Where once he was looked at as a moderate/conservative republican whose experience and judgment was respected by members of both parties, now he is portrayed as a dark and sinister force in the world. What I asked was if anyone (less dr325 who is irrational on the subject) could give me examples of why?

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

People with ideas should be running this country.

my expectations for president went real low now. i am okay with someone without ideas, but i'd prefer a president with one single whole complete lobe sitting inside their skull... just a small piece of brain would do

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by ganeil

The question I posed was specifically about Cheney. If you read what was said of him by the mainstream media before 2000 and then now, there has been a profound shift. Where once he was looked at as a moderate/conservative republican whose experience and judgment was respected by members of both parties, now he is portrayed as a dark and sinister force in the world. What I asked was if anyone (less dr325 who is irrational on the subject) could give me examples of why?

I thought anyone not supporting conservative ideas and as your question suggests not loving Chaney is irrational???
I'm not sure in what world you live but it is obvious that NO good has been done since 9/11. And the bad is either done "because of 9/11" including for example the Katrina/NO fiasco, and bad to come is already blamed on "liberal" Congress and soon to come will be blamed on Dem president... Yes, SH is gone, but there are at least 5 more of him, still sitting and gasing their opposition... SH is gone for the price of forcing the "democracy" in the country and culture we clearly did not understand at all...

The bottom line is no one could give me simple 5 things that have been done right (FACTS) since January 2001...

[325 Baller]

I gave you facts which you apparently feel is nazi propaganda because you live in a seperate part of the universe.

Let me ask you this...Do you feel gore or horse man could've done a better job?

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by 325 Baller

I gave you facts which you apparently feel is nazi propaganda because you live in a seperate part of the universe.

Let me ask you this...Do you feel gore or horse man could've done a better job?

I feel that ANYONE -- McCain, Gore, Bush Sr., my ugly dog... would do better job:
1) WOuld not rush against the World (UN, UN SC) into the mess
2) Would not have f'd up a few countries in the process
3) would do at least a FEW things promised in the campaign
4) Our Army, SS, Healthcare would not be in ruins and stretched to the maximum
5) The World respect for this country would have been at least at the level of September 10 2001.
6) 3600 US soldiers that are gone would have been still alive
7) NK would have never had the nuke, and Iran would not be a few months away from having one
8) The economy would have been where it is...probably slightly better and more stable as more than $1 trillion would be still in our pocket
9) and most importantly, my kids would (still) have had a bright future in this country ahead...

So, yes, I do believe that ANYONE would have done better, especially people that have been in the wars (not as commanders like Chaney, but really fought the wars), and have seen the horrors of it...

[06330i]

haha. poland here i come.

[325 Baller]

This is why america is around..so I can have my opinions and not be shot and killed like SH did to his people, and dr325i can have his opinons.

[Driv3r]

Originally Posted by 325 Baller

This is why america is around..so I can have my opinions and not be shot and killed like SH did to his people, and dr325i can have his opinons.

lol you can have all the opinion you want man, the people up there can care less...the so called "polls" on T.V if they are even statistically correct even say that the U.S people are not for the war in iraq...has bush and his henchman done anything about it or even give a shit?? no.

Actually congress was trying to set a timetable at one point and before they could even meet bush made a quick note to all of them that "I will veto any timetables set for Iraq" search for it.

[67bmer]

as a conservative, I am no fan of G. W. Bush.

I think Cheney might be the best VP in my lifetime!

The fact is, the CEO of Goldman Sachs and the former CEO/secretary of treasury have both stated that the US economy and the world economy is the best it has ever been in their lives!

After the .com bust, 9/11, Katrina, and the wars.

Amazing!!!

[ganeil]

Can I assume that no one has any specific actions by the VP to have so radically altered the common perception of him?

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by 67bmer

as a conservative, I am no fan of G. W. Bush.

I think Cheney might be the best VP in my lifetime!

The fact is, the CEO of Goldman Sachs and the former CEO/secretary of treasury have both stated that the US economy and the world economy is the best it has ever been in their lives!

After the .com bust, 9/11, Katrina, and the wars.

Amazing!!!

and you believe that it would have been different if ...lets say you were the VP?

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by ganeil

Can I assume that no one has any specific actions by the VP to have so radically altered the common perception of him?

Him, he...it is the whole administration we blame. I doubt you can pull out a specific thing that Chaney stood behind or ordered (and if you could, you would probably NEVER be able to prove it). In my mind, he could have ordered the marine murders of civilians in Iraq. He may have supported the tortures int he prisons that Bush "sanctioned" last week... Or, he may have just sat there and collected $300k of taxpayer's money...

In any case, the whole admin is and will be remembered by many as such.

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by dr325i

Him, he...it is the whole administration we blame...

So the answer to my question is No, there have been no specific actions by the VP to have so radically altered the common perception of him.

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by Driv3r

lol you can have all the opinion you want man, the people up there can care less...the so called "polls" on T.V if they are even statistically correct even say that the U.S people are not for the war in iraq...has bush and his henchman done anything about it or even give a shit?? no.

Actually congress was trying to set a timetable at one point and before they could even meet bush made a quick note to all of them that "I will veto any timetables set for Iraq" search for it.

Are you at all familiar with the way our systems works? We don't govern by polls, presidents are elected for 4 year terms, and presidents can veto legislation passed by Congress. If you need more info it can be found here.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by ganeil

Are you at all familiar with the way our systems works? We don't govern by polls, presidents are elected for 4 year terms, and presidents can veto legislation passed by Congress. If you need more info it can be found here.

My understanding is that the President is elected by the people. For 4 years we're stuck with the decision. Ina mean time (2 years into the president's term), the Congreas gets re-elected -- by the people again. And this time, people gave a chance to the "other" side because...most likely some of those polls were correct and people realized mistakes they made.

Now, yes, the Pres has the right to veto, however, if he really cares about what people of his/her country want (expressed) through the Senators, I would think he would at least listen to the demands before publically dismissing any Iraq challenges...

That is my understanding of how the system works...

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by dr325i

My understanding is that the President is elected by the people. For 4 years we're stuck with the decision. Ina mean time (2 years into the president's term), the Congreas gets re-elected -- by the people again. And this time, people gave a chance to the "other" side because...most likely some of those polls were correct and people realized mistakes they made.

Now, yes, the Pres has the right to veto, however, if he really cares about what people of his/her country want (expressed) through the Senators, I would think he would at least listen to the demands before publically dismissing any Iraq challenges...

That is my understanding of how the system works...

Like so much of what you say, your understanding in this matter is flawed.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by ganeil

Like so much of what you say, your understanding in this matter is flawed.

+1. his understanding is of Democracy. but we're in a dictatorship, so none of what he said applies.

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by mantisG35

+1. his understanding is of Democracy. but we're in a dictatorship, so none of what he said applies.

His understanding is flawed, yours is simply bizarre.

We are neither a democracy nor a dictatorship.