[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by bvrider1

1000 cc sport bikes took care of my need for speed. Could care less about having a super fast car.

This ^

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I had a mustang GT. I liked it, best sounding car I've ever owned, did not handle like the C7 or even the camaro I had before the C7, but at the same time it was a much better ride. Still too much power though. Even my miata has more power than I need, at least on the mountain roads in NC. The only time it feels underpowered is on the straights... would suck in FL.

Honestly the only car I can remember that was almost perfect was my Z4MR. It's been a loong time since I owned it so who knows, maybe I would not like it if I drove it now, but I still miss it. Only car I miss. The interior was probably the worst interior BMW has ever made and while the engine sound was pretty nice (if I recall correctly) there was no exhaust note at all.

A Z4MR with it's stock S54 engine with a modern quality interior... throw in a hardtop convertible like the miata RF and a mustang exhaust note...

My Corvettes were way better to me when I lived in the NC foothills. We would run up 221, 181, 81, and a few others in them and thee vettes were sublime. You couldn't really use all their power, but you could use most of it.

We had a good life up there. I miss it pretty often. Just wasn't any real stability for work up there.

[SteVTEC]

Originally Posted by whyzee125

I guess I’m somewhere in between. Back in my e46 days I never invested much in power mods bc there was better money to be spent on suspension, wheels, etc.

Once I got into the e9x chassis I became obsessed with the fun of turbo cars but I still value the other things too.

There’s definitely something to be said about the fun of driving a slow car fast but I don’t think I’d go back to a slower car unless it was just a different type (like a truck or something)

The E46 era was back when BMW's were never about raw power, but about a perfect balance of power, handling, efficiency, and being a complete and "ultimate driving machine". I bought my E93 with that mentality in mind, and I guess I still see BMW's that way to an extent.

I didn't have any money when the E46 was out, but had a "poor man's 3-series" the Nissan Maxima SE, a 1999 with the classic VQ30DE, 190hp, 5-speed manual. Super responsive NA engine, nice short gearing and snarl from the engine. It was a fun car to drive, but not so powerful that you could never wind it out and go through the gears. I did just that quite often! 0-60 in about 6.7s, and low-15's 1/4 mile (or high-14's maybe).

I test drove the 2002 Altima 3.5SE 6MT when it came out, thinking I'd trade. Didn't bother because I realized I couldn't use the power. Sure, it was faster than mine, but it was more than I could reasonably use.

I guess it's a mentality. I don't want to pay for something that I'll never truly be able to use or enjoy. Would rather save the money, or spend it on other things that I could enjoy instead.

[SteVTEC]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Depends on how you define fast. Top speed I've never cared for. Fastest I've gone is maybe like 120 on the track.

0-60 on the other hand matters more for everyday driving, but I would say anything under 4 sec is good enough. However I recently rented a base RAV4 and OMG did I miss having torque! That thing was soooo slow it was dangerous. I'm use to in my cars and especially the Model 3 I can just floor it to get away from idiots... not in that RAV4. You could floor it and it would literally do nothing but make horrible noises.

Honestly I would love an American V8 that made all the same noises but didn't have 500hp. I just don't need that much. Had a C7 and my friend would always tell me I should get the Z06... why.... I barely get to use half the power in the C7 why the fuck do I want more.

Same mentality when I was on the fence about jumping from my 335 to an F80 M3. What am I going to do with 400+hp when I can't really enjoy the 300hp that I already have?

I used to have a RAV4, a 2007 Sport V6. It was awful, even with the V6. I sold it to my folks who loved it and drove it for probably 10 years, but recently bought it back for my kids to learn to drive on. Everybody hates it. Lol.

[Humdizzle]

i think it depends on the car. i've had a number of sports car ranging from 170whp to 620whp. for me its about balance. can the brakes reel in the speed? on a backroad can you be on the throttle as much or more than the brakes?

my 86 with 200hp was a great car and well balanced. and so was my 458 italia. the f8x cars feel like muscle cars and have a bit more power than they do handling/brakes. My GTR was fbo e85 and you had to be on the brakes ALOT on a twisty road... i had to turn the boost down for those times. the X4 m40i i recently drove was ridiculously fast given how poor and sloppy the cornering ability is.

[Davil]

As for power. There’s always a bigger fish.

It’s all about fun and how the car makes you feel at any speed.

[D22M2]

Balance m, feel, and driving dynamics is what I’m into.

[chassis]

Air suspension, full leather interior and low-mid 4 second 0-60 works for me. A blend of comfort and performance, a sport limousine.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by SteVTEC

When I bought my 2011 E93 335i new, its performance was so far beyond anything else I had owned before. I've never been dissatisfied with its performance, and have never really felt like I've needed more. Never even bothered with a JB4 or anything. Still have it today sitting in my garage ready for nice and sunny days, bone stock other than much better rubber.

Who else has been sitting on the sidelines and has never latched onto this modern horsepower craze, or has even gone back to a "normal" car?

I always say this... around 2006-2010 was a horsepower renaissance of sorts... this was when gas turbo engines started making larges waves... prior to that the only performance cars using turbos were niche 4 cylinders such as the Evo /Supra / STI... once the Germans created the first mass 6 clyinder turbo (n54)... the entire industry changed. Suddenly 300 HP was considered pedestrian and the moment tunes for these cars came out, accelerations that were reserved for drag cars suddenly become more common. Once the industry followed with turbo V8s... everything changed further.

Do I think 300 HP is enough for a DD? Sure... for most people it absolutely it... but it's also worth considering that a Camry V6 makes this power now and this makes all traffic by default faster as that is a very common car...

For myself... a 120 MPH 1/4 mile trap speed is the definition of a fast car... for most cars, this necessitates at least 500 hp.

[fraschusa]

In my mind, power is only really relevant if one can drive (use) it. I think a great vehicle is the balance of power with the rest of the vehicle, including brakes, suspension, weight, chassis, etc, and what you want from it. On performance cars, I am not a fan of cars that have huge power and are mostly great at straight-line acceleration and speed. I also don't want to 'wrestle' or tame a car. Anyone who has ever raced anything understands it's setting up the vehicle so it's as easy as possible to get the power on the road. If you have to wrestle with anything, you work on fixing that. I do like power on any vehicle, but it's relative to the fun or function one wants; the power of a good go-cart, a Porsche GT3RS, or a motorcycle is way less than the M5, but any of these will put a HUGE grin on my face when driving it ... on family haulers, it's a bit more challenging, as they are designed precisely for that, comfy, and not for performance driving, so power is way less relevant for me. It's really simple, actually; each to their own.

[mfarrzhp]

When I was younger (and cars were slower), I was chasing HP. Now that I’m older, wiser and cars are faster, I put a lot less stock into straight line speed.

I had a Gen II Viper and spent a lot of time in a C7 Z06, and they aren’t that much fun on the road. Even with a well sorted car like the McLaren MP4-12C that handles better is not as much fun as it is frustrating on the road. I want to let it rip but also not get arrested.

My daily driver GLI 6MT is a lot of fun to row through the gears. If it wasn’t my daily, I’d probably tune it and do some suspension work. My M2 CS has more than enough power for the days of early morning spirited drives on back roads.

Even on the track, the base C8 was as much car as I need. I’d need a lot more track time to get into anything with more power and feel comfortable pushing to the limit.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by mfarrzhp

When I was younger (and cars were slower), I was chasing HP. Now that I’m older, wiser and cars are faster, I put a lot less stock into straight line speed.

I had a Gen II Viper and spent a lot of time in a C7 Z06, and they aren’t that much fun on the road. Even with a well sorted car like the McLaren MP4-12C that handles better is not as much fun as it is frustrating on the road. I want to let it rip but also not get arrested.

My daily driver GLI 6MT is a lot of fun to row through the gears. If it wasn’t my daily, I’d probably tune it and do some suspension work. My M2 CS has more than enough power for the days of early morning spirited drives on back roads.

Even on the track, the base C8 was as much car as I need. I’d need a lot more track time to get into anything with more power and feel comfortable pushing to the limit.

That I will have to disagree with... the C7 Z06 is one of the most fun cars Ive ever driven... It has a loud rumbling V8 that produces and insane exhaust sound... it also has insane torque and power that just doesn't give up... it's fun slow and fast... it also handles insane.... the only downside to that car especially in auto is the awful transmission. In terms of fun though... my m2 comp didn't hold a candle to it... and the G80 M3 at slow speeds may be one of the most boring cars I've ever driven that were considered a performance car.

[mfarrzhp]

Originally Posted by ASAP

That I will have to disagree with... the C7 Z06 is one of the most fun cars Ive ever driven... It has a loud rumbling V8 that produces and insane exhaust sound... it also has insane torque and power that just doesn't give up... it's fun slow and fast... it also handles insane.... the only downside to that car especially in auto is the awful transmission. In terms of fun though... my m2 comp didn't hold a candle to it... and the G80 M3 at slow speeds may be one of the most boring cars I've ever driven that were considered a performance car.

Maybe I worded that poorly, I didn’t find it that livable for my daily commute. I love the noise and the insane power, but again I would be frustrated that I couldn’t actually use that power more often. The Viper is was great also, but I just don’t have the roads to use them sadly.

I find the F87 to be a much better all around daily, and I think it’s built to be that way. It doesn’t sound half as good as the C7, and doesn’t have the crazy torque.

Maybe you’re a better driver than me, but I’m pretty decent with several multi day racing schools, and I feel like I can predict the F87 much more easily than the Z06 or Viper.

[M_Bimmer]

Originally Posted by SteVTEC

When I bought my 2011 E93 335i new, its performance was so far beyond anything else I had owned before. I've never been dissatisfied with its performance, and have never really felt like I've needed more. Never even bothered with a JB4 or anything. Still have it today sitting in my garage ready for nice and sunny days, bone stock other than much better rubber.

Who else has been sitting on the sidelines and has never latched onto this modern horsepower craze, or has even gone back to a "normal" car?

Sort of amusing how much folks pay to shave 1 second off the 0-60 performance number, year-after-year.

To put it in to perspective, if car A crosses the line at 3.5 seconds (doing 60 MPH), a 1-second slower car B crossing the line at 60 MPH right behind the faster by the time you say, "1-1000", is NOT that big of a time different - in reality...and this becomes worse when platforms are compared to sub-second performance. Many times the 0-60 performance depends more on the "human" in the loop.

While there are platforms that do faster than 3.5 these days, why do you need that for a "on-the-street" platform? I'm sure we could fill this forum with content to debate this question.

Interesting enough, a time comes for many of us, where chasing Horsepower becomes 2nd place to "comfort".

[SteVTEC]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I always say this... around 2006-2010 was a horsepower renaissance of sorts... this was when gas turbo engines started making larges waves... prior to that the only performance cars using turbos were niche 4 cylinders such as the Evo /Supra / STI... once the Germans created the first mass 6 clyinder turbo (n54)... the entire industry changed. Suddenly 300 HP was considered pedestrian and the moment tunes for these cars came out, accelerations that were reserved for drag cars suddenly become more common. Once the industry followed with turbo V8s... everything changed further.

Do I think 300 HP is enough for a DD? Sure... for most people it absolutely it... but it's also worth considering that a Camry V6 makes this power now and this makes all traffic by default faster as that is a very common car...

For myself... a 120 MPH 1/4 mile trap speed is the definition of a fast car... for most cars, this necessitates at least 500 hp.

Infiniti kinda started it with the G35 in 2003 with 260-280hp, firing a shot across BMW's bow that they were going to be playing for keeps. Lexus wasn't too far behind. It was an interesting year when the 2006 E90 launched with the 255hp 330i, but the new gen Lexus IS350 launched that year also with way more power. I still remember getting flamed off of and banned from one of the Lexus forums that happened to have a really nice all-makes Car Chat forum, for daring to insist that the "rumored" BMW 335i would be a twin-turbo inline-6, and NOT a "3.5L" engine. I didn't realize this until many years later, but the guys that were flaming me were actually Lexus corporate marketing and PR stooges trying to "control the narrative", and kill any and all buzz about the coming 335i. Those were interesting times for sure.

I've been living in the Maryland suburbs of DC for about 20 years now. Cars have never been faster and more powerful, yet it's never been more frustrating to drive here. Traffic is not moving faster here, believe me! A V6 Camry still has to sit in traffic and put-put around just like everybody else.

[SteVTEC]

Originally Posted by ASAP

That I will have to disagree with... the C7 Z06 is one of the most fun cars Ive ever driven... It has a loud rumbling V8 that produces and insane exhaust sound... it also has insane torque and power that just doesn't give up... it's fun slow and fast... it also handles insane.... the only downside to that car especially in auto is the awful transmission. In terms of fun though... my m2 comp didn't hold a candle to it... and the G80 M3 at slow speeds may be one of the most boring cars I've ever driven that were considered a performance car.

What is it that makes a car more or less fun at ordinary traffic speeds? Is it the sound? Exhaust note? Overall character of the car? I'm thinking an E90 M3 would be more fun at regular speeds than an F80/G80 just from the V8 sound alone with a nice exhaust on it. I had also considered swapping my E93 335 for an E93 M3, but just had too much going on in life at the time and never got off the fence.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by SteVTEC

What is it that makes a car more or less fun at ordinary traffic speeds? Is it the sound? Exhaust note? Overall character of the car? I'm thinking an E90 M3 would be more fun at regular speeds than an F80/G80 just from the V8 sound alone with a nice exhaust on it. I had also considered swapping my E93 335 for an E93 M3, but just had too much going on in life at the time and never got off the fence.

Comfort + exhaust note + overtaking power at legal speeds.

e.g. passing on a 2-lane country road, quickly coming up to highway speed on an on-ramp, combined with full leather interior and air suspension.

[B58-M340iX]

Originally Posted by gblansten

>I don’t get the power thing either.
>My Tesla S Plaid is plenty fast for me.

There's a joke in there somewhere

[KevinGS]

Agility, feel and engagement over speed for me. Speed is a nice compliment, but other traits matter as well. I need a solid overall package. I'll forever trade some speed for agility and the tactile feel of a vehicle.

But I do need some basic speed as well.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by ASAP

That I will have to disagree with... the C7 Z06 is one of the most fun cars Ive ever driven... It has a loud rumbling V8 that produces and insane exhaust sound... it also has insane torque and power that just doesn't give up... it's fun slow and fast... it also handles insane.... the only downside to that car especially in auto is the awful transmission. In terms of fun though... my m2 comp didn't hold a candle to it... and the G80 M3 at slow speeds may be one of the most boring cars I've ever driven that were considered a performance car.

The C7Z06 was super boring to me. Yeah it was fast and capable, but that was it. Super digital, not engaging at all, and no fun at anything but track speeds. Even then it was like playing Forza in a really good sim race setup.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by B58-M340iX

There's a joke in there somewhere

Damn right.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Putting aside level of engagement and fun in a car (as I'm sure one can have a very powerful, connected and fun car), the question of power for me boils down to "how much do I need to restrain myself from using the power on the street?". A high HP car needs a lot of restraint (due to other cars, speed limits or safety). Conversely, a low HP car where you never need to restrain yourself because it's so slow is also frustrating.

On the street, the happy medium for me is around the 5-5.5 seconds to 60 mark. My BRZ (6.5 seconds to 60) is borderline slow for me (fine in most situations, but does feel slow going uphill). My wife's C8 (3 seconds to 60) is way to fast for the street (with barely a second to really floor it (around town and merging to most highways), unless on a highway red light or rural stop sign where one can really punch it 0 to 70ish).

On the track, so long as I'm not flat out everywhere on the track it doesn't matter all that much - I'm there for the turns and HP doesn't do anything there. Enough power to allow me to rotate on throttle when needed is all I need. Still, it is nice to be able to blast past slower traffic (to help with the classic Miata behind Mustang scenario).