[///MPhatic]

Every BMW is worse for having a carbon fiber roof.

This play is nothing more than a cash grab. Installation at the factory most probably costs them less than installing the standard roof, yet they will charge extra for it.

This is just BMW being business-smart; zero cost + zero net performance for more money because of public perception.

[Rafichicago]

The way I see that is that used proper M car values might be affected even more by those M-light cars propositions. This could be good for consumer not so much for current owner. We will see. Carbon roof was one of few features that actually differentiated M car from M car light other than engine. First m2 was an exception.

[ShocknAwe]

Considering base cars used to be drivers cars and they aren't anymore, I see it as a breakdown more like

Basic economy toaster ovens
Drivers cars - M performance
Motorsport

Not a big deal, I get them wanting to make something more affordable so the legions of people who want the BMW badge but don't care about suspension etc can spend their money with BMW instead of another marque.

If you're worried about dilution of the brand I'd do an internal check to see why you're so worried about the meaning of a piece of plastic on your boot lid.

I'm more worried they'll stop making engaging cars. 6MT, ICE, hydraulics, etc etc the list of dying tech in the name of electrification goes on.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by FrozenGT

So carbon roofs should be an M product exclusive, only not being thrown around on non-M cars. This is just ridiculous. Another reason why Bmw is looking to just make money.

You own an M40i. One could say the same of your own vehicle. "Not a real M" some would say.

Like the other German brands, BMW uses M as an in-house tuner that offers a range of products. Different packages are available. The series cars are spiced up in terms of suspension, braking, steering, optics and haptics with the M-Sport pack. M-performance adds a bit more punch to the engines. And the flagship M series ups the ante in all departments.

I see no issue with it. At least BMW makes the lower levels worthwhile by offering quality options to improve performance, and the base chassis are balanced and worthy of the upgrades.


Another perspective beyond the crying.

[F32Fleet]

I like it. Basically this is a no sunroof option.

[FrozenGT]

Originally Posted by Neusser

You own an M40i. One could say the same of your own vehicle. "Not a real M" some would say.

Like the other German brands, BMW uses M as an in-house tuner that offers a range of products. Different packages are available. The series cars are spiced up in terms of suspension, braking, steering, optics and haptics with the M-Sport pack. M-performance adds a bit more punch to the engines. And the flagship M series ups the ante in all departments.

I see no issue with it. At least BMW makes the lower levels worthwhile by offering quality options to improve performance, and the base chassis are balanced and worthy of the upgrades.


Another perspective beyond the crying.

Correct
2022 X3 M40i
2020 M2 Comp DCT
2020 M4 Comp HE DCT

I’m old school- I started getting into BMWs with E46 M3 E92.. they felt very special back then. Now it’s all about putting M parts on everything that BMW board has approved.

You don’t see Audi placing RS logos on non RS cars….

[Kaizer84]

Originally Posted by FrozenGT

Correct
2022 X3 M40i
2020 M2 Comp DCT
2020 M4 Comp HE DCT

I’m old school- I started getting into BMWs with E46 M3 E92.. they felt very special back then. Now it’s all about putting M parts on everything that BMW board has approved.

You don’t see Audi placing RS logos on non RS cars….

I agree, BMW has definitely lost their way. The “M” of today is certainly not the “M” of 15-20 yrs ago, let alone the last decade. It’s all about sales, as some have stated, the bottomline seems to be the most important thing. Kinda sad.

[Equilibrandt]

This is the goofiest discourse on the planet.

All the pearl-clutching because a cheaper, just-as-fun car is getting a feature traditionally reserved for a car out of the average person's budget...? Absolutely cringe-worthy hill to die on.

It's apparent that most //M owners are just spazzing that their 'special' car is 'less special', whereas in reality, the average non-car person couldn't differentiate between a similar color 330i/M340i/M3, let alone a CF roof vs a normal sunroof model. Asinine outrage, lol; Porsche and MB also slap CF on any model they want.

And all of this is happening in a world where the M-Lite B58 is almost identical to an //M S58 on every road but a race track. In my mind, it's simple: BMW's making cool cars financially feasible and enticing again in a world where an //M is simply out of reach.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by FrozenGT

Correct
2022 X3 M40i
2020 M2 Comp DCT
2020 M4 Comp HE DCT

I’m old school- I started getting into BMWs with E46 M3 E92.. they felt very special back then. Now it’s all about putting M parts on everything that BMW board has approved.

You don’t see Audi placing RS logos on non RS cars….

You seem to have misunderstood my post. I have no issue with the M-Sport cars having M badges. They are quality products and the base chassis are very good even before the M tweaks are added. Weight distribution is excellent, the cars drive well and are typically rear drive or rear biased, etc.

Audi is not a sporting brand in my opinion. The RS models are based on the same nose-heavy pigs that constitute the series models. Shopping carts.

[Kaizer84]

Originally Posted by Equilibrandt

This is the goofiest discourse on the planet.

All the pearl-clutching because a cheaper, just-as-fun car is getting a feature traditionally reserved for a car out of the average person's budget...? Absolutely cringe-worthy hill to die on.

It's apparent that most //M owners are just spazzing that their 'special' car is 'less special', whereas in reality, the average non-car person couldn't differentiate between a similar color 330i/M340i/M3, let alone a CF roof vs a normal sunroof model. Asinine outrage, lol; Porsche and MB also slap CF on any model they want.

And all of this is happening in a world where the M-Lite B58 is almost identical to an //M S58 on every road but a race track. In my mind, it's simple: BMW's making cool cars financially feasible and enticing again in a world where an //M is simply out of reach.

Ehhh, I don’t think there is any “pearl clutching” going on, it’s just like the OP stated- acknowledging the fact that the “M”brand has been watered down- plain and simple. Once they started the whole M340i etc, that was it. Why not call it a 340i? Why put the “M” designation when in actuality it isn’t an M? Just look at the abomination of a car the XM, wtf is that??? Gimme a break. Go ahead and put M on every single thing now, who cares. The brand has gone down the drain and the once revered “M” badge/division doesn’t hold the same stature as it once did. It is what it is.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Honest question, what's worse?

A. Putting a carbon roof on everything.
B. Inflating every ///M car in the universe to over 4k lbs and pretending the CF roof does anything at all.

Why even pretend they care about weight any longer? All the G8x piggies need a massive diet.

shhhh you are going against the marketing!!!!

[alex2364]

Carbon roof is not something I would have made a stand on diluting the M brand. When they took away the DCT and put in the ZF auto in the G8x, not to mention the ugly styling, that is when I said thanks but no thanks!

[Trevorr]

Most true M brand buyers opt for the Carbon fiber roof for the aesthetics, very very very few will actually benefit from the weight savings and lower center of gravity.

So why would a CF roof not be offered on other BMW cars?

[Trevorr]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Honest question, what's worse?

A. Putting a carbon roof on everything.
B. Inflating every ///M car in the universe to over 4k lbs and pretending the CF roof does anything at all.

Why even pretend they care about weight any longer? All the G8x piggies need a massive diet.

Most spot on take.

IMO (I have to stress "my opinion") the M3, especially the xdrive got away from the true M brand once it started reaching 4k lbs.

Same with the M2, it now almost weighs as much as an M4, so why bother with the M2 anyways?

It seems to me that 0-60 and 1/4 times matter more than track performance nowadays. Which makes sense given that tracks are really mostly accessible by more affluent people. Anyone can go to the drag strip.


There is a huuuuge difference between 4000lbs and 3600lbs. A CF roof vs standard roof makes very little difference, although tangible difference.

[Kaizer84]

Originally Posted by Trevorr

Most spot on take.

IMO (I have to stress "my opinion") the M3, especially the xdrive got away from the true M brand once it started reaching 4k lbs.

Same with the M2, it now almost weighs as much as an M4, so why bother with the M2 anyways?

It seems to me that 0-60 and 1/4 times matter more than track performance nowadays. Which makes sense given that tracks are really mostly accessible by more affluent people. Anyone can go to the drag strip.


There is a huuuuge difference between 4000lbs and 3600lbs. A CF roof vs standard roof makes very little difference, although tangible difference.

But again this is a symptom of a larger problem at hand. Who is BMW building “M” cars for? And why are they building them? Why not just make everything a “M” something lol. They have strayed from what gained them so much notoriety and success. So why not start putting carbon fiber roofs, “M” badges on everything to try and capture the magic again and let everyone take part in it- to continue selling cars. Shareholders need profit and cars have to be sold to the masses. . We’ll see how the formula plays out.

[Ximian]

Far better to dilute the brand than to dilute the cars. M2/3/4/5/6/8 are still great and now the other models are getting more performance-related options?

Sounds like a "win-win" for everyone except the pretentious.

[Kaizer84]

Why do some of you guys keep talking about M owners worrying about their car feeling less special, or being pretentious and of all of this nonsense. What does that have to do with the current conversation? We are discussing whether things that BMW reserved for M cars in the past belong on Non M cars. Simple. Everyone is free to purchase whatever they like with their money as they see fit. I don’t understand why if ppl have an issue with the direction of the brand must mean they are “pretentious”. Hahaa, laughable. It’s ok to agree to disagree but being disrespectful is lame.

[RugbyBro]

CSL bois punchin the air rn

[BMthusiast]

Personally I don't mind it, but if you're gonna make M-performance cars look like full-Ms then they really gotta up the ante on the actual M-cars moving forward.

[3.0L]

As the 9-year owner of an M235i, I'm very happy with the almost M car. I like the idea that it has upgraded brakes and a little more horsepower. I don't track my car and at its stock level, has more than enough power for street use.

Having said that, I do like the full M-2, but for me it would be bragging rights only. I don't race and I don't track. Just me.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by Trevorr

Most true M brand buyers opt for the Carbon fiber roof for the aesthetics, very very very few will actually benefit from the weight savings and lower center of gravity.

So why would a CF roof not be offered on other BMW cars?

Yes, it is mostly about aesthetics. TBH, I have never really understood the point of the carbon roof, as the M models are road cars. They have all the gadgets, comfy leather interiors, all the safety systems, and on and on.



These cars aren't really track tools until you hit CS or CSL level, and even then, we are still talking about a car that spends most of its time on the public roadways and still contains most of what you'd want for the commute.

I love them for what they are, but no production road-going BMW really needs carbon anything.

[Equilibrandt]

Originally Posted by Kaizer84

Ehhh, I don’t think there is any “pearl clutching” going on, it’s just like the OP stated- acknowledging the fact that the “M”brand has been watered down- plain and simple. Once they started the whole M340i etc, that was it. Why not call it a 340i? Why put the “M” designation when in actuality it isn’t an M? Just look at the abomination of a car the XM, wtf is that??? Gimme a break. Go ahead and put M on every single thing now, who cares. The brand has gone down the drain and the once revered “M” badge/division doesn’t hold the same stature as it once did. It is what it is.

Honestly, I don't get the 340i take at all.

Find me a sedan that could compete with an M340i... most of the MBs are 4 cyl AMGs, an Audi S3/RS3? A Cadillac CT4-V non-Blackwing, an Acura TLX Type S?

These M340i are pretty serious performance sedans and definitely deserve the M badging, as it's becoming more and more well-known that an M-Lite is comparable to a previous-gen M3 on every freeway and on-ramp at semi-safe and semi-legal speeds. Performance cars deserve performance parts and performance names, which is why the jump from a 330i to an M340i is a world of difference.

No G20 M340i is eating a prospective G80 M3 owner's lunch; the used F80 market, however, is probably getting munched. And that's the exact point: if a G20 B58 can dissuade someone from getting an F80 instead, it deserves an M badge.