[gameson]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Rennlist is the most active forum. Just keep in mind that Porsche SUVs are largely Audi's underneath the skin. They are not cut from the same cloth the 911, Cayman, and Boxster cars are when it comes to the engineering and general quality. Although Porsche has a very heavy hand in the performance and design of their SUVs, there's no escaping the Audi/VW issues, thus Porsche SUVs tend to have more issues than their sports cars and are more complex to work on (admittedly the Porsche turbo sports cars suck to work on too). I absolutely hate working on Audi/VW products. I swear the Audi/VW engineers give absolutely no thought to serviceability. And yet, I still get allow myself to get suckered into working on friend's Audi/VW products.

Thank you for your input. I didn’t know that, so cayenne also the same like audi/vw? Yeah i dont like vw car either.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by gameson

Thank you for your input. I didn’t know that, so cayenne also the same like audi/vw? Yeah i dont like vw car either.

The Macan is built on the Audi Q5 platform.

The Cayenne is built on the Audi Q7 platform.

The Audi and Porsche SUVs have somewhat unique engines, but the Porsches tend to be modified versions of an Audi motor. None of the Porsche SUVs have Porsche-only motors.

The "PDK" in the Porsche SUVs are not the same PDKs used in the sports cars. SUVs use a VAG unit and the sports cars use one made by ZF. And both cost mountains to replace and are generally not serviceable, at least finding someone who can fix is far and few between. Porsche won't fix them.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by evomike

you cannot be bringing up reliability and talking about an alfa come on now. I run a higher end collision center and an alfa dealer approached us and we now repair their customers cars, its not "tax" it is just an overall superior product in every way especially build quality.

It's a tax. Parts are crazy, crazy high and there's an upcharge by indy mechanics despite, as said above, a Macan basically being an Audi. I absolutely guarantee you a near new Stelvio will be considerably cheaper to own and run than a 7 year old Macan. Alfa's primary issues have been electronic, not mechanical if it's the 2T.

The interior on our Stelvio is beautiful, it's simple, clean, shows no wear and still uses knobs etc. In saying that we have the Lusso version which has leather everywhere.

I have no horse in the race, I own both the Alfa and a Porsche but this idea Porsche's are expensive but cheap to run is an absolute myth. The 911/Cayman had chronic engine issues from 1996 to 2008 (IMS failure and bore scoring is absolutely rife), even the 2009 to 2015 engines can fall victim to bore scoring, the PDK loves to shit itself at 20K to replace, the manual tranny is eye bleeding expensive to maintain (clutch replacement nearing 5K at an indy), then there's issues with water pumps and manual tranny "lines" or some such ...... and nothing is cheap to source. I mean there's people here with a Macan saying "make sure these two massive issue are looked after or you're gonna be out 20K".

[gatorfast]

The Porsche tax is very real so be prepared for very high maintenance costs unless you can DIY. Even coming from BMW M cars, Porsche maintenance costs are next level. Oil change can be $3-400+ at a dealership. Maybe 50-75% of that at a good indy shop, but still much more expensive than BMW. 30k, 40k, etc mile service get ready for thousands $$

[chassis]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

…are more complex to work on (admittedly the Porsche turbo sports cars suck to work on too).

What SUV examples come to your mind?

[chassis]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

It's a tax. Parts are crazy, crazy high

Maybe it’s not common knowledge yet that $6 oil filters are available in retail shops, on the shelf next to the C30 Porsche approved oil for many current Porsche models. Walmart carries C30 Porsche spec oil.

Spark plugs are expensive, but no different than MB and not too much more than BMW. Brake pads and rotors are a bit more expensive than MB but Porsche brakes are bigger than MB vs comparable trim levels so the higher cost is to be expected. If anyone is looking for cheap rotors they should buy a Civic.

Ordering parts (for DIY jobs) from Porsche dealers is the way to go. I try to buy from my local Porsche dealers but they are playing the scummy greasy dealer game with abusive pricing. Cheaper alternatives for genuine Porsche parts are available.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

but this idea Porsche's are expensive but cheap to run is an absolute myth.

^This. I also think it's a joke that Porsche is largely considered a super reliable brand. I have a strong hunch that it gets this rating because many Porsche owners hardly drive their vehicles and are wealthy, so spending thousands to maintain and fix their cars isn't a big deal to them as they have lots of money and multiple cars.

Like others noted, most any car should be quite reliable for the first 4 years or so. After that, especially with a German car, you'd best be prepared to spend a lot to keep them in tip top shape. You can't let things go or the issue may snow ball into a ton of other stuff.

Also, do not get suckered into spending a lot more for the CPO car. CPO doesn't really cover much and Porsche will claim "wear and tear" on most everything and wear and tear isn't covered by CPO. I bought my 2011 Cayman back in October 2022. It was CPO'd. This was everything wrong with it:

- Clutch and flywheel. The clutch pedal was very heavy and the flywheel had failed. Somehow missed during CPO...WTF? I managed to get $3K from Porsche Colorado Springs for a new clutch and flywheel.
- Engine mount and transmission mounts. The engine mount was ripped and the transmission mounts sagging. Again, missed by CPO and not covered.
- Cracked air oil separator vent line from AOS to throttle body. Again, missed by CPO and not covered.
- Engine air filter was filthy. Again, missed by CPO.
- Leaking belt tensioner. Again, missed by CPO.
- Severely worn original cable shifters and bushings. Since the car technically could be shifted, I guess it passes CPO. LOL.
- Original gas cap. O-ring seal had degraded and was throwing a gas tank vapor control CEL 3 weeks after getting the car.
- Replaced the rear brake rotors. I measured them in December and they were well past their service thickness. I had only put 2K miles on the car at that point. The pads were replaced during CPO but they didn't measure rotor thickness? WTF?
- The headliner just started to sag this summer. It's a common problem and not covered by CPO. Porsche will replace the headliner for $1800. Or I can remove it myself in 30 minutes and reskin it for $120. Hmmm...

Luckily the Cayman is fairly easy to work on and the parts aren't crazy expensive.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by chassis

What SUV examples come to your mind?

What do you mean?

[R N M]

So much false info here about Porsche….

For people that are interested in a certain model -
Please do your own research.

BTW Porsche is the only luxury brand doing 2yr CPO on their sports cars. You can get 2014 911 Turbo or 2016 GT3 RS with a CPO. These are 10yr old cars that were over $200k new. Porsche also will not void your warranty running aftermarket parts - try that with Ferrari or McLaren.

Porsche is not reliable like a Toyota nor is it cheap to maintain as a BMW.
But they can be tracked without any modifications and are much cheaper to run /insure compared to other performance cars.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

What do you mean?

What examples support the claim in the quoted post?

[chassis]

Originally Posted by R N M

So much false info here about Porsche….

Fully agree.

[dgoldenz]

I've had 8 Porsche's (6 911's, one Macan GTS, one Cayenne Turbo) and the cost to maintain them was far less than my E92 M3's that had constant oil leaks, throttle actuators, etc. I don't think I've ever had a single major repair on any of them. Oil changes are $150-200 at my indy shop. The "big" service every 4 years is about $1200 (vs dealer $2000-3000). Tires cost about the same. Never had to replace the brakes but they can't be much more than an M3 for iron rotors.

Usually I just buy a car that's all up to date on service/maintenance, drive it for 6-12 months, then sell it so I rarely need to do much in terms of maintenance/repair anyway.

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by R N M

So much false info here about Porsche….

For people that are interested in a certain model -
Please do your own research.

BTW Porsche is the only luxury brand doing 2yr CPO on their sports cars. You can get 2014 911 Turbo or 2016 GT3 RS with a CPO. These are 10yr old cars that were over $200k new. Porsche also will not void your warranty running aftermarket parts - try that with Ferrari or McLaren.

Porsche is not reliable like a Toyota nor is it cheap to maintain as a BMW.
But they can be tracked without any modifications and are much cheaper to run /insure compared to other performance cars.

That's hard to believe.

https://rennlist.com/forums/992-turb...-warranty.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1193...ance-tune.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1351...-warranty.html

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by chassis

What examples support the claim in the quoted post?

You need proof that late model Audi/VW products are a royal pain in the ass to work on? LOL. They're right up there with working on V8 BMWs. Most Audi/VW jobs start out with put the vehicle in "service mode" which essentially is remove the entire front clip. Everything is so shoehorned under the hood. Even basic suspension work is a bear because of where they put bolts, many being in locations that you can't get a socket or wrench on. And if you can get a wrench on it, you can't get the damn bolt out because of lack of room. That's par for the course when working on these cars. I've done it enough now to know I'll never own one. Sexy and great driving and performing cars, but I'll never consider one even under warranty. I have enough friends with them and I've worked on a number of 2010 to 2021 Audis and VWs now to know better.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by alex2364

That's hard to believe.

https://rennlist.com/forums/992-turb...-warranty.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1193...ance-tune.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1351...-warranty.html

Agreed. Not true in all cases. If you touch the exhaust manifolds, tune it, install coilovers and most any aftermarket suspension part, they will fight you and usually deny work and flag the car. Yes, Porsche is very accommodating to people tracking their cars in non-competitive racing which is pretty cool.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by alex2364

That's hard to believe.

https://rennlist.com/forums/992-turb...-warranty.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1193...ance-tune.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1351...-warranty.html

My friend read those threads please.

It’s similar to BMW - where if you’re car is lowered with aftermarket wheels and you have an issue with your fuel pump, then they will fix it. Obviously if you have aftermarket exhaust and you have issues with your exhaust, then they will not honor it.

Lots of Porsche dealers are mod and track friendly.
The brand itself is huge supporter especially with GT cars.

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by R N M

My friend read those threads please.

It’s similar to BMW - where if you’re car is lowered with aftermarket wheels and you have an issue with your fuel pump, then they will fix it. Obviously if you have aftermarket exhaust and you have issues with your exhaust, then they will not honor it.

Lots of Porsche dealers are mod and track friendly.
The brand itself is huge supporter especially with GT cars.

Huge different between the dealer looking the other way and Porsche warranting a part failure that was directly related to the aftermarket part. If you're going to make all these caveats then make it clear in your original post. Saying "Porsche also will not void your warranty running aftermarket parts" is a blanket statement that is simply isn't true.

[PDOT]

I just did the BIG 40k service on my Cayenne. The dealership wanted 5600, I purchased the parts and had an indy do the work for under 2K. If you do some leg work it's not that much of a difference between Porsche and BMW,

[chassis]

Originally Posted by PDOT

I just did the BIG 40k service on my Cayenne. The dealership wanted 5600, I purchased the parts and had an indy do the work for under 2K. If you do some leg work it's not that much of a difference between Porsche and BMW,

I expect to DIY the 40k work for around $500. Engine and t/case oil changes. Parts inbound now. Cayenne t/case is a cute little feller. A long cry from the traditional offset chain-type cases from 958, GLE and others.

[gameson]

do you think in near future, the sport car of Porsche (cayman, boxster, 911) would share platform with VAG just like Lambo with Audi?

[Alfisti]

No, but they will go electric or hybrid at least.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by chassis

Maybe it’s not common knowledge yet that $6 oil filters are available in retail shops, on the shelf next to the C30 Porsche approved oil for many current Porsche models. Walmart carries C30 Porsche spec oil.

Spark plugs are expensive, but no different than MB and not too much more than BMW. Brake pads and rotors are a bit more expensive than MB but Porsche brakes are bigger than MB vs comparable trim levels so the higher cost is to be expected. If anyone is looking for cheap rotors they should buy a Civic.

Ordering parts (for DIY jobs) from Porsche dealers is the way to go. I try to buy from my local Porsche dealers but they are playing the scummy greasy dealer game with abusive pricing. Cheaper alternatives for genuine Porsche parts are available.

Thjat simple stuff is cheap, yes, that's why I use an indy mechanic. But things like engine mounts, cannot get them under $700 here, O2 sensors are exopensive too for example. Stuff just adds up real fast.