[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by EdM5

Interesting. Because of fact that the 80s and 90s cars were so much harder to drive I always assumed that Senna would also destroy the current generation.

By the way, can't really think of any brutal Senna crashes other than the Mexico Quali flip and off course the collision with Prost in Suzuka 1990 which could have ended catastrophically. Berger, Piquet and Mansell were all involved heavier crashes.

Oh how I miss those glory days of F1. The greatest generation ever.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by EdM5

Interesting. Because of fact that the 80s and 90s cars were so much harder to drive I always assumed that Senna would also destroy the current generation.

By the way, can't really think of any brutal Senna crashes other than the Mexico Quali flip and off course the collision with Prost in Suzuka 1990 which could have ended catastrophically. Berger, Piquet and Mansell were all involved heavier crashes.

Oh how I miss those glory days of F1. The greatest generation ever.

Senna's right hand ?

[EdM5]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Senna's right hand ?

good spot!

It was only a few years later that Senna would love to knock Prost down.

[M5Rick]

Great times then!
They've have that very poster displayed at Brands Hatch race wear gear and model car shop for many years now.

[VisualEcho]

Originally Posted by EdM5

Because of fact that the 80s and 90s cars were so much harder to drive I always assumed that Senna would also destroy the current generation.

And that could well be the case, but something tells me it may not be.

I'm 50, I have a Lotus Exige, and can control every sort of oversteer you can come up with, and hold my own on the track.

Having said that, in a racing simulation, I know kids that are 14 that can stomp my ass while sipping on their Capri Sun.

It's just a different set of skills these days, and they are skills that you have to start early with IMO.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Was never that much of a Senna fan...he was often a bit too pushy when overtaking, to the point that the other driver had to let Senna pass else they would crash.

But he was an incredible driver...for me both Senna and Hamilton had/have the same extraordinary talent of being able to drive at the very limit of what an F1 car was/is possible.
In my top ten Senna and Hamilton are equal first.

At a Goodyear tyre launch, I did once have the chance to be driven round Donnington by Senna...but the queue was too long so I went with Martin Brundle. A decision I have come to sorely regret.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

I disagree that the three drivers you mention should be removed especially when someone like Berger puts forward a relevant acknowledgement of who should be seen as the greatest.
He's walked the walk, you haven't.

I don't need to have driven to know what is fundamentally wrong. Crashing your opponent off the track to win is fundamentally wrong. Your analogy if so flawed that it beggars belief. Do I need to fly an F22 to know that if I don't set the height above sea level properly in the nav computer I may fly into the ground under IFR? No. Anyone with 70 hrs who has passed their IFR test knows this.

I will ask you again...did Jim Clark crash his opponents off the road to win?

Crashing your opponent off the track is wrong in any form of racing. Period. If you don't see that it says volumes.

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

I don't need to have driven to know what is fundamentally wrong. Crashing your opponent off the track to win is fundamentally wrong. Your analogy if so flawed that it beggars belief. Do I need to fly an F22 to know that if I don't set the height above sea level properly in the nav computer I may fly into the ground under IFR? No. Anyone with 70 hrs who has passed their IFR test knows this.

I will ask you again...did Jim Clark crash his opponents off the road to win?

Crashing your opponent off the track is wrong in any form of racing. Period. If you don't see that it says volumes.

Jean Marie Balestre was pretty wacked by the time he was putting Senna on the dirty side of the starting grid.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

Jean Marie Balestre was pretty wacked by the time he was putting Senna on the dirty side of the starting grid.

OMG...talk about the absolute worse person for the job. Well...the worst person other than Max "Where are the Nazi Whores?" Mosley!!

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

OMG...talk about the absolute worse person for the job. Well...the worst person other than Max "Where are the Nazi Whores?" Mosley!!

It's fascinating the British elite and the fondness for Nazi regalia and sexual exploits.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

It's fascinating the British elite and the fondness for Nazi regalia and sexual exploits.

It's quite odd. Did you watch Peaky Blinders? Lot's of references and a story line around Max's father. Creepy.

[npe]

OP has Max Verstappen's dildo so far up his bunghole that he created a thread to quote only choice excerpts from a Berger interview, in a sad attempt to diminish the achievements of one of the most statistically successful drivers of the sport.

Since OP likes to accept Gerhard Berger's opinion as gospel, he must also agree with what Berger has said about Lewis Hamilton:

Gerhard Berger:

Hamilton is not just the best driver today, he’s well on the way to becoming the best ever.

I resisted comparing him to Senna for a long time because I knew him (Senna) well, but I can now say with a clear conscience that Hamilton is the first driver I would talk about in the same breath.

Also, "you are" is spelled "you're"

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

It's quite odd. Did you watch Peaky Blinders? Lot's of references and a story line around Max's father. Creepy.

never knew about it, I'll google

[4play]

Originally Posted by xxTHIR13ENxx

And I'll raise ya (in regards to this particular, unfortunate race):

• He did not sustain any broken bones in the crash
• Had the suspension gone 6" to the left or right, he would've been just fine
• He had an Austrian flag in his pocket to honor Roland Ratzenberger should he podium

My absolute idol. Holding back tears as I write this.
Honestly, any time anything Senna related comes up, I tear up...

Made our humble people PROUD!
R.I.P.

- Leo.

He suffered 2 fatal injuries.

Basal skull fracture from the collision with the wall/tire impact to his head. Suspension A-arm pierced his helmet.

As determined by the Italian legal system, the cause was a broken steering column. Patrick Head and Adrian Newey (yes, that Adrian Newey) were tried for manslaughter. Newey was acquitted, but later under appeal, Head was found to be guilty of negligent homicide/manslaughter, but no penalty was given, as the statue of limitations had expired by the time the trial was completed.

The car was returned to Williams in 2002 and destroyed, Senna's helmet was sent to Bell, who studied it and then destroyed it. Engine was returned to Renault and the status is unknown.

[997810]

I got to see Senna's genius up close and personal with a FOCA pass when racing F3 and working in F1. You could see and HEAR why Senna was quickest. He kept his foot down when others couldn't. I was not a huge fan while he was racing, preferring Villeneuve and Piquet, but after seeing the Senna movie, my perception of the great Brazilian changed. He was an artist, a genius behind the wheel, and had a charisma that Schumacher and Hamilton just can't touch. I also got to see Villeneuve live in a half dozen races and because of his snowmobile skills, he drove with different slip angles. Villeneuve was Michelangelo, Senna was like da Vinci. Geniuses, artists, fearless. They kept their foot down in ways that went beyond courage. What a privilege to see it on the other side of the armco. I'm still blown away by the sheer depth of their commitment. I witnessed the personification of the human spirit.

[4play]

Originally Posted by StatenEye

Anyway, anyone at this point disputing Lewis is top 3 is jus being ignorant.

Dunno about that. He's the top of the V6 Hybrid era, but there have been many eras, all of which are fairly impossible to compare with each other.

You can go by stats, but of course, those can be twisted to suit whoever is your favorite.

I would say there are at least 10 guys who could be in this theoretical top 3.

Fangio, Ascari, Clark, Stewart, Lauda, Prost, Senna, Schumacher, Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton. Probably a handful of others who never won a WDC too (Bellof, Gilles Villeneuve, Moss, etc).

Heck, you could even make a case for Nico Rosberg, since he beat the 2 top drivers (statistically) of all time when they were teammates.

My #1 vote is Ayrton. And it's not really that close. #2/3 for me are Fangio/Schumi (in no particular order).

[997810]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

Jean Marie Balestre was pretty wacked by the time he was putting Senna on the dirty side of the starting grid.

Which is not accurate. check the starting grid from the '88 and '89 races...Senna was on pole and on the "dirty" side of the track. Pole position is normally on the inside part of the corner of the 1st turn. I know Senna claimed that Balestre changed things in '90. In '91 the pole winner was on the outside part of the track going into turn 1 which also was on the racing line.

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by 997810

Which is not accurate. check the starting grid from the '88 and '89 races...Senna was on pole and on the "dirty" side of the track. Pole position is normally on the inside part of the corner of the 1st turn. I know Senna claimed that Balestre changed things in '90. In '91 the pole winner was on the outside part of the track going into turn 1 which also was on the racing line.

A little story to pump my ego. In late autumn of 1989 I was in France to give a shot at a racing career. There was widely held feeling Balestre was hindering Senna. (Suzuka)

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

OMG...talk about the absolute worse person for the job. Well...the worst person other than Max "Where are the Nazi Whores?" Mosley!!

Lol...I'm usually hard against sleazy journalism but when the expose of Mosely (dressed in German WW2 clothing whipping some poor young hooker) was printed, for once I thought there was a certain element of "just deserts".

Berger seemed like a decent guy but....he is not the first F1 driver thrashed by his team mate to declare said team mate as the best ever...and no doubt he won't be the last.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

I don't need to have driven to know what is fundamentally wrong. Crashing your opponent off the track to win is fundamentally wrong. Your analogy if so flawed that it beggars belief. Do I need to fly an F22 to know that if I don't set the height above sea level properly in the nav computer I may fly into the ground under IFR? No. Anyone with 70 hrs who has passed their IFR test knows this.

I will ask you again...did Jim Clark crash his opponents off the road to win?

Crashing your opponent off the track is wrong in any form of racing. Period. If you don't see that it says volumes.

''If you no longer go for a gap then you are no longer a racing driver'' Real world, real drivers not cocooned in cotton wool like HAM with superior car. Senna had to fight all corners including Balestre for recognition which makes him ideal candidate for the greatest driver not like HAM who has had virtually a red carpet laid out for him at every juncture.
Comparing with piloting an F22?...stroll on.

[nachob]

I would have to agree that Senna is the GOAT not just because of fondness and I'm not Brazilian but I saw what he did in the rain several times where the skill and fearlessness took hold. I saw him win Monaco in 92 with a terrible car when the technical wizardry of the Williams Renault car had to be turned off and he held on after the flat. Michael was amazing too as were many drivers but I think the rain set Senna apart to be the GOAT. It reminds me of a top 100 bands of all time documentary. It came down to the Beatles and the Stones. The Beatles had more hits but the Stones were still playing 30 years later and still selling out stadiums. Finally it came down to the Stones first big hit was written by Lennon and McCartney. So close, both worthy of it but I agree Senna had something extra. But I wouldn't fistfight anyone over it.. So many great drivers out there who are deserving too.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by npe

OP has Max Verstappen's dildo so far up his bunghole that he created a thread to quote only choice excerpts from a Berger interview, in a sad attempt to diminish the achievements of one of the most statistically successful drivers of the sport.

Since OP likes to accept Gerhard Berger's opinion as gospel, he must also agree with what Berger has said about Lewis Hamilton:

Gerhard Berger:



Also, "you are" is spelled "you're"

I haven't mentioned MV once on this thread and yet you bring him up and yes it is what Berger has said and it's normal to go from widgets on what is important.
That said it's clear you have a problem with your own hole.