[Daytona_John]

Originally Posted by cntlaw

IWC watches are more exclusive and most well known are those made of titanium. I have been wearing a Porshce Design Ocean Model Automatic made by IWC for over 10 years. (As you might know, IWC no longer makes watches for Porsche Design) Whenever I go for heavy sports I will wear my IWC Ocean. I also dived in the Great barrier reef with it. It has never failed me. It is not a watch that most of the time you leave it to a draw. The major difference of a Rolex and a IWC Titanium, is the IWC is much lighter and therefore more resistance to vibrations. If I go for a IWC watch other than a titanium one, I will also consider Frank Muller's.
Below are photos I took of the latest CLS IWC AMG shows where my dream watches are the IWC AMG models.

Nice watch - just keep in mind the titanium case construction won't really help shock protection. Shock protection is more a function of how well movement is designed to withstand vibration (like hitting a golf ball for example). The material used in the case construction doesn't really impact vibration in the movement one way or the other significantly.

[cntlaw]

Originally Posted by Daytona_John

Nice watch - just keep in mind the titanium case construction won't really help shock protection. Shock protection is more a function of how well movement is designed to withstand vibration (like hitting a golf ball for example). The material used in the case construction doesn't really impact vibration in the movement one way or the other significantly.

agreed. i should have referred a lighter weight watch makes great comfort when wearing for sports than heavy rolex.

[Daytona_John]

Originally Posted by ScBlacksunshine

G.O. Panomatic--- under 7k in house movement

Zenith Chronomaster GT--- in house movement also under or around 7k

Jaeger LaCoultre Dualmatic/Master Calendar...etc--- In house movement

IWC FA jones edition (Steel version)--- in house movement around 7k depending on dealer.

Blancpain--- almost in house movement

I mean I can go on with the list, but looking at your name I don't need to be a genius to figure out you prefer Rolex, and that's defintely your choice, but all the above listed movement is just as good if not better then the Rolex Movement (EL Primero movement uses Column wheel) but like once said "Whatever float your boat" Just like there will always be people that prefer buying Louis Vuitton bag over anything else and swear the quality is perfect..

Are we talking about personal preference or objective superiority? Sure Rolex is my choice, but I recognize that Rolex doesn't make the best watch in the world.

I challenged you to list a watch that retails for 7k with an in house movement that's superior to the Daytona's 4130. You have a list of watches in the price range, but fail to demonstrate in any way why the're superior.

Let's take your first choice for example - The Zenith Chronomaster GT. The El Primero movement in this watch has remained essentially unchanged since about 1962. Rolex used the El Primero as the base caliber, modifiying the design substantially to create the Rolex caliber 4030. In 2000, Rolex introduced the Caliber 4130 at Basel in 2000. So the 4130 in the Daytona is at least 2 design generations ahead of the El Primero in the Chronomaster GT. So why do you feel it's superior? The 4130 has a host of Rolex's newest technology inovations, such as their new hairspring, the "Parachrom Bleu". This new Rolex-patented hairspring is very easy to recognise as the spring has a very dark blue shiny color. It consists of an alloy made of Niob (most part), Hafnium and a very small ammount other metals not described. This blue color is created because the Niob oxidizes in contact with air and formes a protective layer this way.

In comparison to the regular hairsprings (like what would be found in the El Primero), this new one consists of only non-Ferro materials, and is as such completely unsensitive to magnetic fields. Another major advantage is that this new spring is much less sensitive to temperature-variations, the frequency does not vary due to differences in temperature, which results into one of the most accurate mechanical watches you can buy today.

I could go on and on about the new technology (I suppose using the word "new" in reference to mechanical watch technology is relative at best) but you get the point.

[ScBlacksunshine]

Originally Posted by Daytona_John

Are we talking about personal preference or objective superiority? Sure Rolex is my choice, but I recognize that Rolex doesn't make the best watch in the world.

I challenged you to list a watch that retails for 7k with an in house movement that's superior to the Daytona's 4130. You have a list of watches in the price range, but fail to demonstrate in any way why the're superior.

Let's take your first choice for example - The Zenith Chronomaster GT. The El Primero movement in this watch has remained essentially unchanged since about 1962. Rolex used the El Primero as the base caliber, modifiying the design substantially to create the Rolex caliber 4030. In 2000, Rolex introduced the Caliber 4130 at Basel in 2000. So the 4130 in the Daytona is at least 2 design generations ahead of the El Primero in the Chronomaster GT. So why do you feel it's superior? The 4130 has a host of Rolex's newest technology inovations, such as their new hairspring, the "Parachrom Bleu". This new Rolex-patented hairspring is very easy to recognise as the spring has a very dark blue shiny color. It consists of an alloy made of Niob (most part), Hafnium and a very small ammount other metals not described. This blue color is created because the Niob oxidizes in contact with air and formes a protective layer this way.

In comparison to the regular hairsprings (like what would be found in the El Primero), this new one consists of only non-Ferro materials, and is as such completely unsensitive to magnetic fields. Another major advantage is that this new spring is much less sensitive to temperature-variations, the frequency does not vary due to differences in temperature, which results into one of the most accurate mechanical watches you can buy today.

I could go on and on about the new technology (I suppose using the word "new" in reference to mechanical watch technology is relative at best) but you get the point.

OK dude, looking at your credential I am sure you know more about watches then I do... Difference between a professional vs Hobbist I guess.. Anyway, you must feel the need to defend Rolex since you replied to my last post twice..even though I never said Daytona wasn't a nice watch, my point was for 7k (once again if you can even get a Daytona at that price) you can get in house manufacturer movement watches with just as good of fit,finish and accuracy as a Rolex with better styling and more exclusivity. I mean, if you want accuracy, buy a quartz watch and it'll be much more precise. Not denying the Rolex movement is good with all the technical inovation thrown in it and I am sure it'll be a durable watch, but at 7k I was presenting the original poster something else to think about rather then just another "Rolex". Anyway, to prevent dragging this out any longer and to make you happy. I would like to say that for 7k Rolex Daytona is the best you can get, it's technically superior, looks better, smells better, probably taste better and it has nothing to do with the fact that the name "Rolex" has anything to do with it. Also to sum it up, any ETA movements are like a POS Chevy Cavalier

[cosmosblau]

Originally Posted by Daytona_John

Yea, pull the other one and it plays jingle bells....

A Daytona is a COSC certified chronometer....in order to pass, the watch must peform at a tollerance of no more than +6 to -4 seconds per day. If your "friend's" Daytona had been sent to Rolex for service (something that should be done about every 5 years for any mechanical timepiece) then it would be regulated back to within COSC specs.

If you're truly trying to suggest that a stock ETA movement is superior to a Rolex movement....well, that's like suggesting a Chevy Cavalier engine will out perform the BMW M5.

Who would ever expect someone named "Daytona John" to be so defensive about Rolex Daytonas!

....I don't begrudge your opinion.. we all have to justify our expensive habits in some way.

I don't think that my "friend" (are your quotes to imply he really isn't my friend, or that he doesn't exist?) waits five years to send it back to Rolex; he sends it back because it sucks ass. He has easily sent it back 3 times in five years. I really don't know why he bothers; if I had his money, I'd have a hundred nice watches.- And I do consider Rolex a nice watch, but purely from a jewelry standpoint.

P.S.- A COSC certification costs manufacturers less than eight dollars per movement.

[Daytona_John]

Originally Posted by cosmosblau

Who would ever expect someone named "Daytona John" to be so defensive about Rolex Daytonas!

....I don't begrudge your opinion.. we all have to justify our expensive habits in some way.

I don't think that my "friend" (are your quotes to imply he really isn't my friend, or that he doesn't exist?) waits five years to send it back to Rolex; he sends it back because it sucks ass. He has easily sent it back 3 times in five years. I really don't know why he bothers; if I had his money, I'd have a hundred nice watches.- And I do consider Rolex a nice watch, but purely from a jewelry standpoint.

P.S.- A COSC certification costs manufacturers less than eight dollars per movement.

Well, I'm not defending the Daytona so much as I'm defending misinformation. Unless your "friend" operates a jackhammer for a living, there's no way the watch is "several minutes off per day" if it's been sent to Rolex for service.

Your mistaken in your cost of COSC certification - the true cost varies by manufacturer, and depends on the volume of testing the manufactuer does with COSC. Rolex no doubt pays less per test than anyone, as they are COSC's biggest customer. Of course, it has little bearing on our dicussion...I just pointed it out to demonstrate that a watch coming from Rolex (either new or serviced) should hold these tollerances. "Several minutes off per day" just doesn't sound plausible. Sorry.

[Daytona_John]

Originally Posted by ScBlacksunshine

OK dude, looking at your credential I am sure you know more about watches then I do... Difference between a professional vs Hobbist I guess.. Anyway, you must feel the need to defend Rolex since you replied to my last post twice..even though I never said Daytona wasn't a nice watch, my point was for 7k (once again if you can even get a Daytona at that price) you can get in house manufacturer movement watches with just as good of fit,finish and accuracy as a Rolex with better styling and more exclusivity. I mean, if you want accuracy, buy a quartz watch and it'll be much more precise. Not denying the Rolex movement is good with all the technical inovation thrown in it and I am sure it'll be a durable watch, but at 7k I was presenting the original poster something else to think about rather then just another "Rolex". Anyway, to prevent dragging this out any longer and to make you happy. I would like to say that for 7k Rolex Daytona is the best you can get, it's technically superior, looks better, smells better, probably taste better and it has nothing to do with the fact that the name "Rolex" has anything to do with it. Also to sum it up, any ETA movements are like a POS Chevy Cavalier

Actually, I "lost" my first reply - I didn't think it posted...when in fact it had. That's OK, because I was time limited on that first reply, and didn't add the depth that wanted - which I rectified in the 2nd post.

Now...back to the issue at hand - your backtracking.

Here's what you just said above:

...my point was for 7k (once again if you can even get a Daytona at that price) you can get in house manufacturer movement watches with just as good of fit,finish and accuracy as a Rolex with better styling and more exclusivity.

This differs substatially from what you said in previous posts:

I know for sure there are better value out there with better movement (which was your first point of argument)

It looks to me like you're backpeddling and changing what you said because you realize your original position isn't very defensible. Which tells me your opinion is based on personal bias and less on facts. Rolex is the 800 lb. gorilla in the watch industry which makes them an easy target for the uninformed for unwarranted criticism. Much in the same way that many will say "BMWs aren't worth the money...yada, yada."

Now, you're welcome to your opinion about BMW...or Rolex for that matter. I'm always interested in hearing if people can back up their opinion with objective facts (and educate me and perhaps influence my opinion) or if they're just blowing smoke.

[ScBlacksunshine]

Originally Posted by Daytona_John

Actually, I "lost" my first reply - I didn't think it posted...when in fact it had. That's OK, because I was time limited on that first reply, and didn't add the depth that wanted - which I rectified in the 2nd post.

Now...back to the issue at hand - your backtracking.

Here's what you just said above:



This differs substatially from what you said in previous posts:



It looks to me like you're backpeddling and changing what you said because you realize your original position isn't very defensible. Which tells me your opinion is based on personal bias and less on facts. Rolex is the 800 lb. gorilla in the watch industry which makes them an easy target for the uninformed for unwarranted criticism. Much in the same way that many will say "BMWs aren't worth the money...yada, yada."

Now, you're welcome to your opinion about BMW...or Rolex for that matter. I'm always interested in hearing if people can back up their opinion with objective facts (and educate me and perhaps influence my opinion) or if they're just blowing smoke.

Ok..I think you miss the point I am trying to make and no I am not backpeddling.. I never said Rolex suck at making their own movement, in fact on my original post I said Rolex Daytona is a good choice, but like I said many many times for 7k you can buy something just as good. Are you telling me all the watches I listed won't last as long, and don't have the same workmanship and finish as the Rolex, or won't keep time just as good (and if you want technical comparison, then go on Timezone.com and ask around on GO/Omega/JLC forum, perhaps someone can give you the precise data you're looking for?) If the answer is no to the above questions, then there's better choice...btw, even though you listed Daytona technical features before, that still doesn't make it a superior choice to what I listed. Buying a luxury watch is subjective, most people buying it is buying it for the "SOUL" just like people buying BMW/MBNZ...etc, so at the end of the day it is all about opinions and that's what this forum is about. Anyway, if it makes you feel better AGAIN....Rolex is the best, Daytona is the end all and be all watches with the best movement in the industry and Rolex is the 800lbs or 1000lbs gorilla of the watch industry....

P.S. Don't bother to reply to my posting anymore, at this point a simple agree to disagree is good enough..and for the record you won the argument and you can walk away feeling good about wearing your ROLEX


**To the original poster, good luck with your IWC 3706, are you getting the bracelet or leather? Btw, the bracelet has the best adjustment design ever**

[Daytona_John]

Originally Posted by ScBlacksunshine

Ok..I think you miss the point I am trying to make and no I am not backpeddling.. I never said Rolex suck at making their own movement, in fact on my original post I said Rolex Daytona is a good choice, but like I said many many times for 7k you can buy something just as good. Are you telling me all the watches I listed won't last as long, and don't have the same workmanship and finish as the Rolex, or won't keep time just as good (and if you want technical comparison, then go on Timezone.com and ask around on GO/Omega/JLC forum, perhaps someone can give you the precise data you're looking for?) If the answer is no to the above questions, then there's better choice...btw, even though you listed Daytona technical features before, that still doesn't make it a superior choice to what I listed. Buying a luxury watch is subjective, most people buying it is buying it for the "SOUL" just like people buying BMW/MBNZ...etc, so at the end of the day it is all about opinions and that's what this forum is about. Anyway, if it makes you feel better AGAIN....Rolex is the best, Daytona is the end all and be all watches with the best movement in the industry and Rolex is the 800lbs or 1000lbs gorilla of the watch industry....

P.S. Don't bother to reply to my posting anymore, at this point a simple agree to disagree is good enough..and for the record you won the argument and you can walk away feeling good about wearing your ROLEX


**To the original poster, good luck with your IWC 3706, are you getting the bracelet or leather? Btw, the bracelet has the best adjustment design ever**

If I missed your point, it's because you keep changing the point it is your trying to make. I'd be happy to agree to disagree however. They are just watches after all...we're not talking world peace or anything.

Now, care to explain/defend why the IWC 3706 has the "best adjustment design ever" ?

However, I've done reviews from all the manufacturers you named. I REALLY like JLC personally...I wouldn't mind owning one some day in fact.

[8t]

guys,

thanks for all good advices and the insight to the world of watches.
i got the IWC this weekend.

well i must say the IWC makes the Rolex looks very machine , and the IWC is a piece fine craftsmanship, so much more refine. , these are my Observation from just looking at the 2 watch. movements wise i don't know much, i am still learning how to appreciate them.

and yes i saw the G.O. Panomatic - it is art & Engineering in its highest form. (well maybe next time)

for now i happy with both SD & Spitfire.

attached are the photos of my Rolex SD & IWC spitfie.

thanks again for the feedback & reply

cheers

[cosmosblau]

Excellent choice!

[ScBlacksunshine]

Very nice

[mava330]

CONGRATS 8t!!! Wear it in good health!

[Daytona_John]

Originally Posted by 8t

guys,

thanks for all good advices and the insight to the world of watches.
i got the IWC this weekend.

well i must say the IWC makes the Rolex looks very machine , and the IWC is a piece fine craftsmanship, so much more refine. , these are my Observation from just looking at the 2 watch. movements wise i don't know much, i am still learning how to appreciate them.

and yes i saw the G.O. Panomatic - it is art & Engineering in its highest form. (well maybe next time)

for now i happy with both SD & Spitfire.

attached are the photos of my Rolex SD & IWC spitfie.

thanks again for the feedback & reply

cheers

Congratulations. Your assesment is understandable - the Sea-Dweller is designed to be a tough, rugged tool watch - in most respects (except perhaps the white gold hands and markers) the watch is very utilitarian. That Spitfire sure does look nice!

[SteveMD]

I have a Panerai (164). I guess I need to get my camera. I didn't buy a Rolex because everyone will think its a replica. Nobody I have shown my PAM to has even heard of Panerai.

Here's a pic from the official site:

[8t]

Originally Posted by Daytona_John

Congratulations. Your assesment is understandable - the Sea-Dweller is designed to be a tough, rugged tool watch - in most respects (except perhaps the white gold hands and markers) the watch is very utilitarian. That Spitfire sure does look nice!

John,

To be fair and honest, the above statements is true about the rolex SD, when I wanted to get a watch then, my criteria was to get a watch is that build like a tank, hold its value, sports model, not as common as the explorer and SM, and get a taste of high-end stuff (well to what I know the SD is the 2nd highest of the rolex sports range). Well I couldn’t find anything better than the rolex SD. It was the best fit for what I wanted and it’s my 1st expensive watch brought with my own money.

Thanks for reminding me.

Yes the rolex SD is a super utilitarian & hardy watch to have daily.

I just wish I could wear both watches at the same time, I love both of them.

Thanks again for sharing.

[8t]

Originally Posted by mava330

CONGRATS 8t!!! Wear it in good health!

thanks for the well wishes.....you too take care & be happy.

cheers

[8t]

Originally Posted by cosmosblau

Excellent choice!

thanks for the advice along the way too......take care.

cheers

[boostedtwin]

IWC's are so nice. I got two.

IWC Ingenieur Chrono SS Automatic


IWC 2000 Automatic Titanium



BTW, the first one is for sale. If interested, send me a PM. Brand new conditions. Just looking to make some changes on my collection.