[gonzo]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

I don't think such a heavy car would be that fun to drive. 4200 lbs. !!!

I drove a regular CTS and thought it was very boat-ish. Body rolled like none other in a hair-pin. Plus lets face it none of us are pro racers, even though some of us think we are.
0.5 seconds faster around a track just isn't enough to make me want to give up the great feel BMW's have. Its purely a bragging rights result, and if I ever see a CTS owner bagging an M5 I'd promptly tell him to go drive one.

I love the feel of BMW's too. Absolutely do. I have only ridden in a few Cadillacs. Owned 5 BMW's....The reviews and technical data I have read on this car is that the feel is there and the roll you express is not. This is not a CTS with a 6.3L dropped under the hood. A set of M5 keys would suit me just fine. But there is enough money difference between the two that I will take a look. Nothing wrong with change in my book.

Bragging rights? The Nurburing/straight data and personal reviews will do for me. Purely for whom?

It's a car. A hunk of iron just like they all are. Everyone have a great day.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by gonzo

I love the feel of BMW's too. Absolutely do. I have only ridden in a few Cadillacs. Owned 5 BMW's....The reviews and technical data I have read on this car is that the feel is there and the roll you express is not. This is not a CTS with a 6.3L dropped under the hood. A set of M5 keys would suit me just fine. But there is enough money difference between the two that I will take a look. Nothing wrong with change in my book.

Bragging rights? The Nurburing/straight data and personal reviews will do for me. Purely for whom?

It's a car. A hunk of iron just like they all are. Everyone have a great day.

If it is truely refreshed as much as implicated, I'll take a look. But I'm still a bit skeptical that it would be able to deliver the same overall driving pleasure. Its generous price difference means there must be SOMETHING missing. I don't think BMW overcharges that much on their cars, they aren't like Porsche.


I found this picture of the CTS-V. I thought it was a bit funny. For such a sporty car they sure filled the hood up with alot of plastic. Maybe to deaden the sound?

[ArmyBimmerDude]

I enjoy it with fanboys are blinded by the BMW roundels. 4200lbs is pretty damn heavy, but it's not like the M5 weighs as much as a Z06. It's only 150lbs less. Get over yourselves, it won. It's a cycle. The next Gen M5 will kill this version of the CTS-V and so on.

No one has a problem when car magazines compare the new M3 to the RS4 which has been out for how many years?!

Also, what sane person would expect ZR-1 numbers from a car that weighs 700lbs+ more than the Corvette? Come on.

[Krueger///M3]

Originally Posted by Taittinger

So in essence, the as-of-yet unreleased Cadillac edged out a three year old car on a track. GM targeted the performance of a three year old car. Way to look forward.

+100

[Spec 1]

Originally Posted by Taittinger

So in essence, the as-of-yet unreleased Cadillac edged out a three year old car on a track. GM targeted the performance of a three year old car. Way to look forward.

You do realize this is a Cadillac outperforming an M5 right? In corners and such, not just in power AND torque. I say it really is a fantastic leap forward.

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

If it is truely refreshes as much as implicated, I'll take a look. But I'm still a bit skeptical that it would be able to deliver the same overall driving pleasure. Its generous price difference means there must be SOMETHING missing. I don't think BMW overcharges that much on their cars, they aren't like Porsche.


I found this picture of the CTS-V. I thought it was a bit funny. For such a sporty car they sure filled the hood up with alot of plastic. Maybe to deaden the sound?

There's not much missing. Cadillacs are not as pricey as BMW's generally but I would go check one out if I were you. You must also take into account that Cadillac knows they're not going to release their car at the same price point of an M5 and compete very well, so now they've made a car that is nearing equal if not besting it in areas AND doing it for $20k less? You'll have many would-be M5 owners looking at this car first.

Secondly, most all companies are putting heaping amounts of plastic in the engine bay these days. I don't see how this is any different from any Lexus, Benz, or hell, BMW they've produced since 2003. Plastic makes the bay look "clean".

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by Spec 1

You do realize this is a Cadillac outperforming an M5 right? In corners and such, not just in power AND torque. I say it really is a fantastic leap forward.



There's not much missing. Cadillacs are not as pricey as BMW's generally but I would go check one out if I were you. You must also take into account that Cadillac knows they're not going to release their car at the same price point of an M5 and compete very well, so now they've made a car that is nearing equal if not besting it in areas AND doing it for $20k less? You'll have many would-be M5 owners looking at this car first.

Secondly, most all companies are putting heaping amounts of plastic in the engine bay these days. I don't see how this is any different from any Lexus, Benz, or hell, BMW they've produced since 2003. Plastic makes the bay look "clean".

You have a point, but there is a difference between making the bay look clean and just plain covering it all up. The M5's engine bay has plenty of plastic, but it is functional. 2 Airboxes and the intake over the manifold. The CTS-V only has 1 airbox and the intake cover, the rest is all just extra fluff. And you can make an engine look clean without putting a plastic panel over it all.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

I enjoy it with fanboys are blinded by the BMW roundels. 4200lbs is pretty damn heavy, but it's not like the M5 weighs as much as a Z06. It's only 150lbs less. Get over yourselves, it won. It's a cycle. The next Gen M5 will kill this version of the CTS-V and so on.

No one has a problem when car magazines compare the new M3 to the RS4 which has been out for how many years?!

Also, what sane person would expect ZR-1 numbers from a car that weighs 700lbs+ more than the Corvette? Come on.

You seem to be offended that poeple are "fanboys" of BMW. Incase you hadn't heard, the internet is serious business.

And yes, I'm a BMW M fanboy. Do I care what this stereotypical title brings with it? Not even alittle bit. Calling out names and labelling poeple is probably the furthest possible thing you could of typed from a reasonable reply or rebutle. I try to be open minded, you'd see that if you read my posts without any of you bias towards fanboys that you obviously have, but I still like what I like. Everyone feels that way over something. I'm not disputing any of the articles claims but I am just voicing what I think the situation is. Nothing is free, so if you are getting something for nothing, either your stealing it or someone else is paying it for you.

In the end, if I'm totally wrong about this car I'll be fine. I'm just a BMW fanboy after all. But if I'm right, then you just got trumped by what you clearly hate. But then do I care? Not even alittle.

[gonzo]

What am I missing with this way to look forward stuff?

What car is that that has captivated drivers for oh...how long?

oh yeah.....911




Just admit you hate the car.

GIVE ME TORQUE!

[UltimateBMW]

I do however agree with the comment about the M3 vs. RS4 in regards to comparing a car with a 3+ year old competitor. It is their current available version and thus is open to comparison. Only once the new M5 comes out will a comparison to the e60 become invalid.

But then again, I am expecting the CTS-V to not be as fun as the M5 to drive in regards to an overall experience. In many cases this can be a topic that is made up of alot of personal criteria, and it can also be a topic that is very biased by poeple that have been driving the same brand of car for the majority of their life. You guessed it, BMW.

[MisterSkiMask]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

You have a point, but there is a difference between making the bay look clean and just plain covering it all up. The M5's engine bay has plenty of plastic, but it is functional. 2 Airboxes and the intake over the manifold. The CTS-V only has 1 airbox and the intake cover, the rest is all just extra fluff. And you can make an engine look clean without putting a plastic panel over it all.

The plastic is also there to keep the noise down especially on a luxury car where SC whine and intake noise is not what the typical owner is looking for

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by gonzo

What am I missing with this way to look forward stuff?

What car is that that has captivated drivers for oh...how long?

oh yeah.....911




Just admit you hate the car.

Haha, well I wouldn't say I hate it. But I can tell you right now that I'll never buy one.

[MisterSkiMask]

I think its an awesome effort from GM and worthy of cross shopping. You fanbois should just give credit where credit is due and be happy that someone raised the bar that BMW has to jump over.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask

The plastic is also there to keep the noise down especially on a luxury car where SC whine and intake noise is not what the typical owner is looking for

I surmised as much in my original post where I posted the picture. However, I think for this particular market poeple "want" to hear the sound of the engine. This isn't the regular CTS we are talking about. The average buyer of this car is someone wanting more power, more performance, and a more connected feel to the car. Not the cloud-9 taxi ride. I'd be interested in reading a article that talks briefly on how the cars compare sound wise. Personally, I think S/C can sound good. If I was in the market to buy the CTS-V I probably would want to hear it.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

Haha, well I wouldn't say I hate it. But I can tell you right now that I'll never buy one.

I was writing to the other two fanboys.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask

I think its an awesome effort from GM and worthy of cross shopping. You fanbois should just give credit where credit is due and be happy that someone raised the bar that BMW has to jump over.

Welcome to the conversation. I am not discrediting the car. Simply critiquing and offering my personal opinion on it. I'm playing along with the fanboy title because its a word everyone loves to use to try to discredit whoever they are debating against. As you just now so brilliantly demonstrated. So if I can't beat the term I might as well turn it into a term of endearment.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by gonzo

I was writing to the other two fanboys.

Ah, no worries then.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

I surmised as much in my original post where I posted the picture. However, I think for this particular market poeple "want" to hear the sound of the engine. This isn't the regular CTS we are talking about. The average buyer of this car is someone wanting more power, more performance, and a more connected feel to the car. Not the cloud-9 taxi ride. I'd be interested in reading a article that talks briefly on how the cars compare sound wise. Personally, I think S/C can sound good. If I was in the market to buy the CTS-V I probably would want to hear it.

Listen to the driveby video, I think the 5th one. Sounds pretty frig'n good to me.
www.cadillacfaq.com/08faq/video/

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Listen to the driveby video, I think the 4th one. Sounds pretty frig'n good to me. Listen when he lets off the throttle near the turn in.
www.cadillacfaq.com\08faq\video\

Unfortunately, I can't watch any type of streamed video while at work. :/

My company employs a hardware firewall that completely blocks certain file types from going through. I'll definately watch it when i go home in about 3 hours though.

Thanks for the clip!

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

Unfortunately, I can't watch any type of steamed video while at work. :/

My company employs a hardware firewall that completely blocks certain file types from going through. I'll definately watch it when i go home in about 3 hours though.

Thanks for the clip!

Ah Hah! You admit it is a powerful car.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Ah Hah! You admit it is a powerful car.

Well played sir. Well played.



Edited now of course. lol

[gonzo]

[MisterSkiMask]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

.... The average buyer of this car is someone wanting more power, more performance, and a more connected feel to the car. Not the cloud-9 taxi ride. I'd be interested in reading a article that talks briefly on how the cars compare sound wise. Personally, I think S/C can sound good. If I was in the market to buy the CTS-V I probably would want to hear it.

I think the average buyer at this level, CTS-V, M, AMG, etc, wants all the performance with no compromise and that is why they are willing to pay for it. I also think a little SC Whine can sound good and I would want to hear it if I had the pedal floored but other then that no.

My dad was one of the average buyers of these types of cars, he wanted the most power that was available, the best performance, the good looking factory wheels, but at the end of the day he wanted a quiet compliant ride.