[xQx]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

What are you talking about??? The original M was the M-1 with an I6. The E30 M3 had an I4, the E36 M3 was I6, the E46 M3 was I6, the E28 M5 was I6, the E34 M5 was I6, and the E24 M6 was I6. Those are all part of the history of the M brand and have nothing to do with V8 or V10 or V12. Don't even know what an S64 is --- typo for S65?

It's truly amazing to find out that the E9X was the only true M car ever made

First, yes, typo I meant the S65. And no, the E90 isn't the only true M car - but in my view, it was one of the last that were iconic. You're right, the I6 is integral to BMW's history, it was, and is, one of the best engines they make. But previously, it was naturally aspirated. Now it's just another turbocharged german 6 cylinder.

I don't have a big problem with turbochargers per se, but in my view they're not iconic, because now practically every German car is a combination of 4 or 6 cylinders and 1 or 2 turbochargers. ... and in the past, the cars would be engineered to be light and agile and geared well to offset the fact that you had to rev out the engine to 8,000rpm to get real power - or if they had a big car, they'd create a 12 cylinder monster to power it. ... Now (because of the wonderful torque a turbochargers gives you), all the //M's are bigger, heavier, more insulated, more automatic and rely on fancy electronics to turn corners.

Obviously, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder; and it's a dangerous game to come onto a BMW forum and say 'the modern //M cars just aren't all that special' - but - for me at least, the //M brand is similar to AMG - every time BMW sell a new family car, they give it to //M and say "now, give us a range-topping sporty variant" .. even it's a limousine or a SUV. It's not about "pure driving pleasure", it's not about "engineering excellence" it's about flogging fast family cars.

Is a modern //M better than an old //M in virtually every aspect? Yes.
But are they still special? Not in my opinion.

I guess what I'm saying is BMW ///M still make good cars. But they don't really make "iconic" cars or even "special" cars. ... which is an important distinction, because iconic or special cars are different, they're pushing the envelope, they're uncompromising ... in other words, they're often actually terrible cars to drive (or maintain) on a daily basis.

[clutchdj]

The F80 will always be nice to look at because of the fender flares, CFDS and the 3 pedal option; plus it’s pretty strong. They really don’t break unless modded heavy. I mean the days of failed strut towers, steering pumps, RTABS and fan clutches are over.

F80 will look good after 10years and probably still be distinguishable as a “proper” ///M car while most manufacturers will be aiming towards slippery and smooth lines. The g80 will have tough act to follow but of course it will be better (reliable) overall. I don’t care enough to go on.

[DanG]

I have owned BMWs since 1971. While my current M car isn’t my first, it is by far the best BMW I have ever owned. Is it special. It is in the eye of the beholder.

Most people don’t recognize my car and I don’t really get any attention in it. I bought it to impress me, not anyone else.

[garz747]

We're forgetting here that BMWs main priority is to sell cars- and they are! Fill every possible niche in the market, slap M badges on everything but a baby stroller, tune engines by the amount of boost in the turbo- the more you pay the more hp youll get. The original engineers that did the S54- Vogele and Himmel, are old men now. I dont think designers are drinking bavarian beer all night and coming out with wonderful strange cars like our Z4M's anymore. Lets not forget the added cost and complexity of the newer Ms either. Almost everyone of my buds leases their cars. Jags, Astons, Bentley, theyve all gone back to the dealer after three years and with their 25000km oil change I say good riddance. The newer Ms are all close to $100k cdn here with our 13% taxes as well. I dont like monthly payments and I take car of my vehicles- a rarity these days.

[DanG]

I forgive BMW for their three tier Ms now a days. They are trying to get some of the money tuners have gotten for years tuning Ms. So the Competition is a low level tune. The CS is a higher tune.

I never tune my car, so the base M is fine for me.

[fullstack]

I ignore the fact that there are higher tier ms because for what they cost, they dont compare to what can be had for similar $. The base m is still my dream car when it comes to bmw.

[Mach550]

It's nice I have the M on my car but I bought it for its capabilities and it was within my budget. If I had the extra 20-30k to squeeze out I would have gotten the real M car. BMW seems to be saturating its market though to make sure they have something at every buyers level of income.

[gatorfast]

While I am not a fan of the competition, cs, gts variants that seem to be the trend I think the OP is still off base. The performance difference between the "base" M car and the competition variant is negligible and usually splitting hairs, unlike the performance difference between a x40i and an M car which has a large performance and feature/tech gap.

[PshhhhhMW]

*sigh* the heritage and history of the //M car is what makes it special. That will never go away.

If your definition of a special car is something that cost over $400K then its apples to oranges. You compare the //M cars to their direct competition.

If you're worried about blending in with the oversaturation of the //M brand then refer back to my first response.

[jpdchicago]

I went from an E46 to an f80 to an M4 gts and they were all special to me. I plan to keep the gts for many years to come...

[xQx]

I thought I'd chime in again and say I think a lot of us are differing on what makes a car "special".

There's some great advice in this thread - specifically, if you're buying a BMW because of what other people think; you really should re-evaluate your choices.

I think all BMW's are becoming more refined, more powerful, more capable and more accessible to more people. Thus, they're also becoming more mainstream, less exclusive and arguably less engaging to drive. Does that make them any less special or any more special? ... well, that depends entirely on your definition of special.

Originally Posted by G35POPPEDMYCHERRY

this keeps coming up.....nothing is special anymore unless u driving a 400k+ car.

You must have *REALLY* high standards of what's special. I define special as a car that sells in small numbers, does something that very few others do, and seriously pushes the envelope in some way...

So, I'd lump a whole lot of historic cars into that category and we could all argue all day about what should or shouldn't make that list - but limiting the options to brand new cars in 2019 that are well under $400k ... In my mind Lotus and Caterham still make 'special cars', and the Ariel Atom or KTM X-Bow are quite special for around $100k. There might be too many of them available in the USA for most people's definition, but the SRT Hellcat also makes my list.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by xQx

You must have *REALLY* high standards of what's special. I define special as a car that sells in small numbers, does something that very few others do, and seriously pushes the envelope in some way...

The Pontiac Aztek would fit that definition .... guess it was special

[RAFiK - BMWClubUAE]

In a way or another everyone has a point here.

Let's start listing things in perspective...

1) QUANTITY:
In the old days, BMW did not produce such large quantities of any single model to the extent where you'd see it on the road almost 4 times a day. They had limited number of cars per each model, thus, just seeing an M on the road was a privilege!
Now however, almost every single 3,4,5 Series on the road has an M badge slammed on it. I can promise you that here (in Dubai) it will be a rare sight to see a normal 3/4/5 Series as a base model, without those M-Performance or M badges slammed on. Almost every single car being sold out of the showrooms holds an M badge, whether it was an M or not. This itself, makes the "M" badge less unique and available in large quantities even to people who don't appreciate or know where it came from and what is the history behind that singular letter "M"
The Z4M, Z3M, 1M Coupe are still cars that are unique till this day, simply because they are super rare.

2) VARIETY:
There are tons of new and different models coming up everyday. We've seen in the past 7-10 years (up to date) almost 6 brand new M models (M2, M4, M6 GC, M8, X3M, X4M). Don't get me wrong I'm sure each one is unique and special in it's own way, but it wouldn't makes me surprised if they come up with X1M... There are far too many M's at this point and each of them serve a purpose. Back in the day, an M car could serve any purpose you want. Take the E39 M5 for example, you can treat it as a daily highway cruiser, family car, track car, drag racer and possibly some other things as well. In today's world, my F10 M5 is such a whale on the track and feels so freakin' heavy to the point where I'd go (Nah man, I don't want to push it so hard). My previous E92 M3 was a perfect track tool, but a horrible daily cruiser. That perfect sweet balance is almost not achievable anymore. That's just my humble opinion.

3) VALUE:
Regardless of any point we've discussed, these M's (anyone of them) each have their own personality and own character. Driving each and every single one of them gives you a smile no matter where you drive it or where you CAN drive it. Be it on the track, on the road, off roading or on the drag strip. I don't think I will ever be bored of any M I drive no matter how powerful it is, how heavy it is or how old it is. They're just valuable to me...

[AlpineWhite_SJ]

The cars, yes. The heritage, yes. The brand now that it’s slapped on anything with a sporty package, less so.

[BM dnobagaV]

There's a deeper, underlying meaning as to why the E60 M5 was so iconic. And I'm not referring to it's engine.

Exclusively unique.

[Sassicaia]

Every single M car is special to me.

Not a fan of SUVs in general, but even those Ms are pretty awesome.

What isn't special are all the M sport, M performance variants that are pure marketing and zero performance

[Tommysalami]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Hear me out.
.... You can not buy a better E46 than the E46 M3. ....

Every version of the M3 has had a special limited edition version...
E30 M3 sport evolution
E36 M3 Lightweight
E46 M3 CSL
E92 M3 GTS
etc...

Enjoy what you have, it is special, even when a newer and better model inevitably comes out.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by DanG

I forgive BMW for their three tier Ms now a days. They are trying to get some of the money tuners have gotten for years tuning Ms. So the Competition is a low level tune. The CS is a higher tune.

I never tune my car, so the base M is fine for me.

This is pretty close to truth in my opinion. The additional “tiers” are a way for BMW to edge into the tuner world.

And it’s clear to me from this discussion that M still holds a “special” place for their owners. And I get that. I drive a C7 Grand Sport, and that’s as middle child as Corvettes get. Yet, it’s special to me. I’ve spent about as much time customizing it to my taste as I have for my MZ4 Coupe.

Still doesn’t change the fact that the M brand is so diluted that buying an M car now-a-days doesn’t feel like buying an M car 5, 10, 15 years ago. Even *I* go “meh. It’s just another M” when I see a current gen M3/4/5/6/x2/x3/x4/x5/x6/8 parked at the local mall.

And I had such high hopes for the M2, that now it pains me to say “meh. It’s just another M” when I see one drive by.

So it’s sort of a circular logic/argument. If I’m disillusioned enough to make a post like this and have this sort of sentiment about BMW’s Motorsport division, ME, a 30 year long BMW M fanboi...What does that say about ///M’s unique place amongst the automotive excellence pantheon?

The ///M King is dead. Long live bland “majority rule” representative democracy?

[Alpine_F82]

Originally Posted by vandridine

I think it depends on where you live.

Around DC i see a minimum of 3-4 m3's/m4's a day, so no they are not that special anymore simply because of how many i see everyday. I am sure someone who doesn't see them every day coming to and from work finds them much more special and interesting.

I have the only M4 in my town, I love the attention hahaha, everyone drives mustangs and challengers here. I get so many heads and people screaming population of county is 77k, 33k in city.

[sme_be]

While ordering my next one, a zero performance model, I actually thought about you enthusiasts' feelings and I've decided to have it completely debadged. 140i.

[86Zed]

There are still some gems in BMW's modern lineup, namely the M2 and M3/4 platforms. It seems like BMW is splitting hairs with the base, CS and GTS variants, however I would argue the variants are aimed at folks who will not tinker with the car. These days the average person would not think to tune or bolt on an aftermarket exhaust, nor go deeper into the suspension and engine. For some the added benefit of the variants is an OEM warrantied "tuning" solution.

I do not think anyone would argue against the exclusivity being diluted by the model creep and production number increase. M cars still deliver the best experience BMW has to offer, and that experience has shifted with the intro of electronic steering and forced induction engines. I'll keep my throwback M, not against the idea of adding a modern M at some point.

[chris82]

Times have changed people.