[FirstClass]

Originally Posted by gbelton

No not a tank of oil, just 9 litres of Synthetic 10w60 by Castrol which is also used in the current E92 (///M3)

Indeed 10-60. I knew when I typed it that it was wrong, but I couldn't remember what it actually was. And I didn't say it used a tank of oil, I said it used tank oil aka the oil used in tank engines. I guess I'm not as funny as I think I am.

[gbelton]

Originally Posted by VDPHB

It's almost (keyword...almost) tragic that the M cars are street cars.

Very true, then 1000's of people like me could not drive them on the regular roads. There are so many benefits in driving a Super Saloon like the ///M5 on the regular roads; far beyond just going FAST...

Nice that you can put it on the track though and because many of us do not have a career in race car driving, the fun factor IMO can be attained due to the spirited, high performance driving to be had in a safe environment.

[gbelton]

Originally Posted by FirstClass

Indeed 10-60. I knew when I typed it that it was wrong, but I couldn't remember what it actually was. And I didn't say it used a tank of oil, I said it used tank oil aka the oil used in tank engines. I guess I'm not as funny as I think I am.

No need to apologize. I read your statement incorrectly. It's all good. You're right, these engines revv so high, they need some of the higher oils due to all that internal pressure!

[gbelton]

Originally Posted by VDPHB

Hey,

Thanks for the compliments everyone...

I haven't driven an E90 M3, so I can't give a point of reference there. To keep it within the family, I have driven both my sister's and friend's E60 530is quite a bit and the M5 is every bit as comfortable riding as those cars. It "just" has a much larger performance envelope on all levels. That's what makes cars like the M3/5 (and all BMWs to a lesser extent) so special I suppose. The fact that they are comfortable and practical, yet they have limits that most of us will never be able to realize on the street.

It's almost (keyword...almost) tragic that the M cars are street cars. I wish we had access to something like the 'ring here dotted all over the US so these cars can go where they were meant to be. CCA track and autocross days are great though!

I have a ///M5 vs. ///M3 review if others are interested in reading. Instead of jacking this thread I will start a new one.

[BMW-videos.com]

good writeup.

[mPlasticDesign]

Some of the 335i guys are begining to get a bit of a reputaion..."dollar for dollar it's the best car in the world!....I would rather have a 335i and a house than a Lamborghini!" BLAH BLAH BLAH I should have known that this was a trojan horse thread, but read it anyway. Now evrything is >///M division? Please... Maybe ///M cars are not the best value, but they are best that BMW has to offer.

[VDPHB]

Originally Posted by ///Metak

Some of the 335i guys are begining to get a bit of a reputaion..."dollar for dollar it's the best car in the world!....I would rather have a 335i and a house than a Lamborghini!" BLAH BLAH BLAH I should have known that this was a trojan horse thread, but read it anyway. Now evrything is >///M division? Please... Maybe ///M cars are not the best value, but they are best that BMW has to offer.

Hey Metak,

I never meant this thread to be one about the 335i being better than an M car. That is far from the case and I think anyone with an appreciation for well engineered and great performing cars would be a fool to say so. If you read my review, I said that the M5 is so good, it's silly.

Like gbelton said, M cars and the buyers who truly appreciate their performance capability are of a different breed and financial standing. Realistically speaking, drivers of any BMW will rarely get to push their cars to their limits. Like gbelton said, the fact that you have the performance available to you is the thing.

You are right, M cars aren't the best value and they are the best that BMW makes from a performance and exclusivity standpoint. If I was to buy a BMW to commute in stop and go traffic everyday in, I'd be hard pressed to say honestly that an M3 is better than a 328i (yes, that is sacreligious to say). Kinda like bringing a nuke to a knife fight. I guess that's why magazine editors and others often love cars like the Miata, Elise and other "bare vehicles", you can explore their envelopes. For pure driving pleasure though, in BMW's lineup, nothing will ever beat an M car, period....it's as simple as that.

I just wanted to share my subjective opinions of the M5 with all of us who aren't as privileged to own one that there are virtues to both cars and for the type of driving that most of us are capable of and able to do, the 335i is more than enough car. I don't think that the fact that I'm happy with my purchase makes me think that a 335i is better than an M5, but if I misspoke or if you misinterpreted my review, I'm sorry.

Don't get me wrong, if I had the money or if someone gave me the choice of an M car or a normal BMW for free, I'd pick an M car in a heartbeat....

[Xiaofeng]

Originally Posted by ///Metak

Some of the 335i guys are begining to get a bit of a reputaion..."dollar for dollar it's the best car in the world!....I would rather have a 335i and a house than a Lamborghini!" BLAH BLAH BLAH I should have known that this was a trojan horse thread, but read it anyway. Now evrything is >///M division? Please... Maybe ///M cars are not the best value, but they are best that BMW has to offer.

Metak, with all due respect, it sounds to me that you are in fact the person that's trying to justify to yourself the purchase of an M car. Where in VDPHB's write-up did you find the part that says the 335i is better than an M5, or any M car for that matter? The closest argument I could make for your case is that VDPHB claims the 335i's exhaust sounds a bit more sonorous, and is a "simpler" car.

From what I gathered from the same article, VDPHB heaped a lot of praise upon the M5, so much so that he found out that to buy the car as a daily driver would actually be overkill. The car is so capable and so powerful that using it for mundane day to day driving would be akin to confining a Thoroughbred to a petting zoo, and he's absolutely right. M cars love to be driven, to be melded together with the road and the driver. That is the essence of any M car, and what the M Division strives to achieve. I'm not sure what the traffic laws in Serbia are, but in the US, we're typically limited to 55-65 MPH in city limits. That's barely 25% of what the M5 is capable of.

I agree that since the introduction of the N54B30 and the 335i, there has been a large influx of younger drivers (to an extent, myself included), who sometimes bring with them a polarizing shortsightedness. However, to read malcontent into words where none was intended is just as shortsighted.

At the end of the day, whether you drive a 128i or a 335i or a 760Li or an M5, we're all fans of BMW and appreciate fine automobiles, and from that appreciation should sprout the camaraderie for fellow BMW owners. Let's go out there and enjoy the drive.





Oh, VDPHB, very thoughtful and applicable write-up. I very much enjoyed reading that.

[Year's_End]

#1 post of the thread.^

[voltron1011]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

#1 post of the thread.^

Yes, agreed!!

[mPlasticDesign]

The write up was very well written. By that, I mean it was subtle in it's intent. If you truly want to do a write up on your M5 driving impressions then do just that. Instead you chose to compliment the M5 only to follow up with why you think the 335i is better. Your opinion though and your entiteled to it and so am I. Just don't piss in people's face and then tell them it's just a little rain.

Originally Posted by VDPHB

Hey guys,

Just wanted to share my experience this holiday weekend with an M5....

Now the power...bear in mind that this car is broken in, so P500 mode (500 HP) was available. In 400 HP mode, the car is docile...almost to the point of being boring. It's smooth, yet takes a lot of throttle to get it going and with an 8250 RPM redline, my 335i will easily beat it in the cut and thrust of daily driving.

winner=335i

Originally Posted by VDPHB

....With such a high redline and wide power band, I was disappointed that I could never truly realize it's true potential......

winner=335i
dissapointed? come on, 7000 vs 8250 RPM and all of the sudden you couldn't realize it's true potential? You keep harping on the "high" RPM of the M5. You act like the peak rpm is twice as high. You've driven the car you now how fast it gets to 60/70/80 and to that peak RPM.

Originally Posted by VDPHB

In the end, as I was driving the car back to it's owners, I pulled up to my buddy's house and saw my car parked out front and thought to myself..."Ugh, I have to slum it and go back to my car". But the funny thing is, the minute I hopped back into my car and pulled out of the neighborhood, I realized several things...

This is where it get good...

Originally Posted by VDPHB

1. The 335i really moves off the line and loves to rev. It feels much faster than the M5 off the line, but give the M5 some room and it's no contest. Dare I say that the sound of the 335i's engine is more sonorous than the M5's. Not as thrilling or aggressive, but more beautiful.

winner=335i
#1, first thing you mention is a comment on how your 335i really moves and how it "feels" much faster. I thought this was a review of the M5. Oh and the exhaust is more "beautiful" on the 335.

Originally Posted by VDPHB

2. "Adjustability" - The M5 has way too many adjustments on it. There are 3 power/throttle settings, 6 manual shift modes, 5 auto shift modes, 3 EDC modes, 3 DSC settings, and 2 steering settings. That's just to decide how much power the car should have, how it should shift, how it should ride, how much trouble it should let you get into, and how heavy the steering should feel. I completely realize that once you set the M Mode, you pretty much drive it in default P400 mode or M Mode, but gimme a break. Just let me drive the damn thing! (I must be getting old.)

winner=335i
M5 too confusing.. just let me drive the damn thing!

Originally Posted by VDPHB

3. Gas - I realize that if you have enough money to afford an M5, gas isn't an issue, but......Let's just say 11 City/17 Hwy. I was able to eke out 18.8 MPG over an 80 mile highway stint driving it like a Prius, but realistically, expect 13 MPG in mixed driving. On the same 80 mile drive home, I averaged 29 in my 335i........

winner=335i
MPG better on a FI I6 than a NA V10, DUH.
Sorry M5 0 for 3.

Originally Posted by VDPHB

I thought I would be bummed hopping back into my 335i from the M5. From all of power to the size, handling, and ride combination and plethora of comfort features, I figured my car would feel like a stripped tin can, kinda like going from the Space Shuttle to a Cessna. Surprisingly, I think I like it better than the M5 for my needs. It's punchier around town, sized perfectly for urban and suburban driving, and more tactile with the road while still be comfortable enough........

winner=335i

Originally Posted by VDPHB

In the end, given the $97,000 MSRP on the M5 I drove, I'd rather buy a 335i or an M3 and buy a second car with the $45,000 or $30,000 I would have left over to really have some fun or utility with if I needed it.

No disrespect to those who have an M5, because if I could afford one, I'd take it, but I'm not only content, I'm very happy with my 335i purchase.

winner=335i
Yeah, no disrespect to you M5 owners but you paid too much for too much car that you won't even be able to enjoy to it's full potential unless you are on a track.

[Year's_End]

It's more than just the sum of its parts man.^

Like, I think you should understand considering you drive an M Coupe. I loved how those drove at the performance school. You can't just assess a car in a straightforward manner all the time. I think an M5 is well worth the money if you can afford one.

[mPlasticDesign]

Originally Posted by VDPHB

Hey Metak,

I never meant this thread to be one about the 335i being better than an M car.....You are right, M cars aren't the best value and they are the best that BMW makes from a performance and exclusivity standpoint....I just wanted to share my subjective opinions of the M5 with all of us who aren't as privileged to own one that there are virtues to both cars and for the type of driving that most of us are capable of and able to do, the 335i is more than enough car. I don't think that the fact that I'm happy with my purchase makes me think that a 335i is better than an M5, but if I misspoke or if you misinterpreted my review, I'm sorry.

Dude you really don't have to apologize, you have a right to your opinion. It just seemed to me that there might have been underlying agenda. I have just seen these types of threads turn into 335i>M5. Just look at this post from this thread for example:

Originally Posted by equ

While I haven't driven one, seems spot on... I've found with most recent M cars in general that they really are a chore around town if you're just trying to putter around. The shifts don't work as well (even in manual), the suspension jitters, etc. etc. Accelerating on to a highway though, well, that's what they're made for.

The e46m3 had this to a large degree. Not a great suspension and a stiff shifter meant a car less smooth than non-M e46's. It all came together if you beat up on the car. .....So it's interesting that the e60m5 is like the e46m3 (which also had crappy smg, I personally preferred manual for simplicity and street use).

Really? WTF?

[VDPHB]

Originally Posted by ///Metak

The write up was very well written. By that, I mean it was subtle in it's intent. If you truly want to do a write up on your M5 driving impressions then do just that. Instead you chose to compliment the M5 only to follow up with why you think the 335i is better. Your opinion though and your entiteled to it and so am I. Just don't piss in people's face and then tell them it's just a little rain.
winner=335i

winner=335i
dissapointed? come on, 7000 vs 8250 RPM and all of the sudden you couldn't realize it's true potential? You keep harping on the "high" RPM of the M5. You act like the peak rpm is twice as high. You've driven the car you now how fast it gets to 60/70/80 and to that peak RPM.
This is where it get good...
winner=335i
#1, first thing you mention is a comment on how your 335i really moves and how it "feels" much faster. I thought this was a review of the M5. Oh and the exhaust is more "beautiful" on the 335.

winner=335i
M5 too confusing.. just let me drive the damn thing!

winner=335i
MPG better on a FI I6 than a NA V10, DUH.
Sorry M5 0 for 3.

winner=335i

winner=335i
Yeah, no disrespect to you M5 owners but you paid too much for too much car that you won't even be able to enjoy to it's full potential unless you are on a track.

Jeez Metak,

I don't quite know what to say to your responses. I'm kinda speechless to be honest. We all have to use a point of reference for our experiences. It seems that you have an issue with the fact that mine comes from driving a 335i. In fact, the title of the thread says "E60 M5 driving impression from an E90 335i driver". I could use the Kia Rondo I rented as a point of reference to share my experience, but I don't think that would be helpful would it?

Furthermore, what irks me to the point of responding to you is that you are criticizing my opinion, yet you drive an M Coupe and an M3. Have you driven an E60 M5 and if so, why don't you share your views instead of cutting mine down? I'm just trying to figure out your motivation here because you make it sound like I have an ulterior motive, which I don't.

Like one of my old college English professors, you are reading my review, picking it apart word for word, and using certain excerpts to support your contention that I have an ulterior motive to say that the 335i is a better vehicle than the M5.

Let me be clear...as the author of my review and having read your critique of it, you are flat out wrong about my intentions and motives. I don't have a motive other than to share my love of BMWs with this community and forum.

I don't think anywhere did I explicitly say that the 335i was definitively better than the M5 except for maybe the cut and thrust of city driving and the exhaust note being more sonorous, which of course is subjective and not objective. You are interpreting my individual observations and applying it to my overall opinion of the M5.

I heaped praise on the M5 and I also admit to the fact that those who buy M cars can be in different financial standing than those of us who aren't, but wanted to share my perspective of an M car with those in similar situations.

In the end, I didn't disrespect the M5 or it's owners at all...my opinion was that it is so good, I could never realize it's potential on the street.

I'm not going to read into your words, misinterpret them and rebut them point for point, but let's just finish this with what I wrote:

"...if I could afford one, I'd take it". I don't think there is a higher endorsement for thinking the M5 is a better car than that and if you read into me being happy with my 335i as me declaring the 335i a better car, then I don't know how I can be more clear about it. The M5 is a better overall car and a more Ultimate Driving Machine then a 335i.

Also, in response to your post above, I can't control where these threads go...others are also entitled to their opinion and the way threads are posted, they often can go off topic and if they do, I'm not a moderator, so I can't shut it down, clean it up, redirect it back on topic or reprimand a fellow forum member.

Like any review, I shared my opinion and waited for feedback. It just bums me out that you would think that by expressing that I'm happy with my car after having the privilege of experiencing the M5, I have an ulterior motive.

I invite anyone to share their opinions and thoughts about the tone of my review because I always strive to be fair and objective even on something as subjective as driving a car.

[VDPHB]

Originally Posted by Xiaofeng

Metak, with all due respect, it sounds to me that you are in fact the person that's trying to justify to yourself the purchase of an M car. Where in VDPHB's write-up did you find the part that says the 335i is better than an M5, or any M car for that matter? The closest argument I could make for your case is that VDPHB claims the 335i's exhaust sounds a bit more sonorous, and is a "simpler" car.

From what I gathered from the same article, VDPHB heaped a lot of praise upon the M5, so much so that he found out that to buy the car as a daily driver would actually be overkill. The car is so capable and so powerful that using it for mundane day to day driving would be akin to confining a Thoroughbred to a petting zoo, and he's absolutely right. M cars love to be driven, to be melded together with the road and the driver. That is the essence of any M car, and what the M Division strives to achieve. I'm not sure what the traffic laws in Serbia are, but in the US, we're typically limited to 55-65 MPH in city limits. That's barely 25% of what the M5 is capable of.

I agree that since the introduction of the N54B30 and the 335i, there has been a large influx of younger drivers (to an extent, myself included), who sometimes bring with them a polarizing shortsightedness. However, to read malcontent into words where none was intended is just as shortsighted.

At the end of the day, whether you drive a 128i or a 335i or a 760Li or an M5, we're all fans of BMW and appreciate fine automobiles, and from that appreciation should sprout the camaraderie for fellow BMW owners. Let's go out there and enjoy the drive.





Oh, VDPHB, very thoughtful and applicable write-up. I very much enjoyed reading that.

Thanks for the compliment and explanation Xiaofeng, although since you drive a 335 too, your words have to be taken with a grain of salt

Just kidding....

[voltron1011]

I think Metak (with the M symbols in his name) needs to take a chill pill and stop acting so butt-hurt.... He's acting like he's doing us a favor by him being on our lowly 3-series (non-M) forum....
BTW, Metack, where's your E90/92 anyway? Why are you even on this if you don't have a comparable car to share with the rest of us in this discussion forum? Quit trolling!!!

[mPlasticDesign]

Originally Posted by voltron1011

I think Metak (with the M symbols in his name) needs to take a chill pill and stop acting so butt-hurt.... He's acting like he's doing us a favor by him being on our lowly 3-series (non-M) forum....
BTW, Metack, where's your E90/92 anyway? Why are you even on this if you don't have a comparable car to share with the rest of us in this discussion forum? Quit trolling!!!

You're an idiot. Trolling? I have just as much right to be here as you do. This is not a "non-M" section as you put it. This is in the:
ZPOST > BimmerPost Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion
E60 M5 driving impression from an E90 335i owner

[mPlasticDesign]

Originally Posted by Xiaofeng

Metak, with all due respect, it sounds to me that you are in fact the person that's trying to justify to yourself the purchase of an M car. Where in VDPHB's write-up did you find the part that says the 335i is better than an M5, or any M car for that matter? The closest argument I could make for your case is that VDPHB claims the 335i's exhaust sounds a bit more sonorous, and is a "simpler" car.

From what I gathered from the same article, VDPHB heaped a lot of praise upon the M5, so much so that he found out that to buy the car as a daily driver would actually be overkill. The car is so capable and so powerful that using it for mundane day to day driving would be akin to confining a Thoroughbred to a petting zoo.......

Believe me I quite happy with my purchase. But at least you didn't have to resort to personal attacks and insults to make your point. I'm not saying every 135/335 owner is out to prove something but too many ARE! Just look at a quick search I did, yes they are all actual threads:
It's just gotten silly...
BMW 335i vs Bentley Continental GT
335 vs 350z
335 sstt vs E500
RSX Type-S vs 335i
Raced a 350z
335i coupe vs. cayman s
335 vs evo x
335i vs 2007 350z
gt500 or 335i
etc.

[VDPHB]

Originally Posted by ///Metak

Believe me I quite happy with my purchase. But at least you didn't have to resort to personal attacks and insults to make your point. I'm not saying every 135/335 owner is out to prove something but too many ARE! Just look at a quick search I did, yes they are all actual threads:
It's just gotten silly...
BMW 335i vs Bentley Continental GT
335 vs 350z
335 sstt vs E500
RSX Type-S vs 335i
Raced a 350z
335i coupe vs. cayman s
335 vs evo x
335i vs 2007 350z
gt500 or 335i
etc.

Agreed Metak....

Let's just agree to try not to turn this thread into the type you don't like ok?

Wow....the annoying things you can do with smileys...

[seccsc]

Other than the "trolling" .....
the M5 review was very well written. Thanks for your opinion.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by ///Metak

Believe me I quite happy with my purchase. But at least you didn't have to resort to personal attacks and insults to make your point. I'm not saying every 135/335 owner is out to prove something but too many ARE! Just look at a quick search I did, yes they are all actual threads:
It's just gotten silly...
BMW 335i vs Bentley Continental GT
335 vs 350z
335 sstt vs E500
RSX Type-S vs 335i
Raced a 350z
335i coupe vs. cayman s
335 vs evo x
335i vs 2007 350z
gt500 or 335i
etc.

Ditch the Bentley comparo and I'd say that those are all fairly reasonable match ups. What's wrong with people sharing their experiences? They're not trying to prove anything.

[voltron1011]

Originally Posted by ///Metak

You're an idiot.

That comment just about sums up how intelligent you really are.

BTW, this did actually begin @ e90post.com - general E90 discussion...