[e92_bryan]

Originally Posted by Spa2k

Model proliferation is necessary to keep manufacturers profitable - and to provide enough research, development and marketing resources for future models (like the M2) that aren’t mainstream, bread-and-butter models. Chevrolet did it with SS, BMW did it with M, Mercedes did it with AMG, MINI did it with JCW, Ford did it with ST - and on and on. If you’re a poseur, you’re thrilled to have the letters on an otherwise ordinary car - and if you’re a true enthusiast, you know which letters to buy.

The degree to what they do it to is different tho
Ford and st is reasonable to me since st models are more than just a badge and actually vary from base models
Bmw and M is a rebadged but still differentiates between a real M car and an M based/themed car aka m3 vs m235i
In other cases its a blatant rip off to the consumer and category of high performance cars
Like the Mercedes c300 now being a “full” amg car, not an amg edition, not an amg based, just a full amg. It’s be like bmw renaming the 335 the M3 base model
And the m3 becomes an m3 compeition package or something

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff

Exclusivity in this situation is a matter of how much money you can spend. If you have more to spend, move upmarket. If you don't, make peace with the fact that you're not the only one who can afford a basic, mass produced luxury brand.

Agree with your comment, plus it is all relative isn't it?

As I see it, BMW can only sell M-Cars where there is the money to support the market.

M-cars are rare beasts in my area, in the Scottish Highlands. Only one F10 M5 I know off in the area, run by the local optician. Don't know of any F80/82 models at all locally. Even my 'humble' F11 535i wagon is a rare vehicle up here, never seen another in my travels. They will be very rare across Scotland.

Thinking about it, my 535i is exclusive.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by e92_bryan

In other cases its a blatant rip off to the consumer and category of high performance cars

What's the real problem with having different model levels, M-Sport, (M-sport trim), M-Lite (M235i) and full fat M-Cars?

Personally I can't see where there is a problem in the marketing or customer choice. Been like it for years. Even the 'M-Lite' designation has been used for decades. I remember cars like the E28 M535i sitting along side the E28 M5.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Spa2k

Model proliferation is necessary to keep manufacturers profitable - and to provide enough research, development and marketing resources for future models (like the M2) that aren’t mainstream, bread-and-butter models.

The foundation of proliferation, though, is cheap and easy credit.

Most people on this list don't remember a time when you couldn't walk into dealership in Bumfuck, North Dakota, provide a SS#, get credit, and drive off. That was the 80s and there were no centralized databases or easy way to establish credit risk - so just GETTING credit was a time-consuming process.

And, assuming you could get credit, IT WAS EXPENSIVE ... but it's been getting cheaper for 30 years so basically more and more people can "afford" more and more car.
In 1989, you could've been looking at a 10%+ interest rate on your car loan!!

The time of cheap credit is going to change.

In the meantime, here's your graph of exclusivity-loss and proliferation of high-priced sport models:



Early 1980s Honda Civic hatchback, 60HP ... an "economy car" - those interest rates made the Japanese car industry ... cheap credit made the German car industry

[Mr Carrots]

probably best not to be snobby when you drive a last gen car that's likely worth $20k at most

[Performancedieselpros]

Originally Posted by Elaz

Bmw has messed up the M brand. These things are everywhere now. It use to be more exclusive. They need to bring it back there again.

If you bought am M for exclusivity I laugh, the exact same way I did when I told my buddy who bought his Rolls Royce Wraith a couple months back that his car was basically a BMW with custom finishes.

M is about one thing, going fast, hugging corners, and daily driving.

It took some time for me to find a nice last yr production 2014 x6m in space gray in amazing condition and since I don't like the 2nd gem body lines and hate the vertical vent, but even with that M5s, X5m, and X6M are actually not that common at all.

The M falls in a price point that's performance focus, where as MANY that are looking for finishes will likely go to a more refined interior brand.

On that note I bought my X6M for 1 reason, to modify! The fact that my wife drives it and it's not an X5, QX80, or a Range Rover it's perfect since where I'm at in house wife suburbia hell everybody is trying to fit in.... while mines trying to stand out, and that the X6m does.

I was going to buy the 2018 518hp Range Rover or the diesel back in December, but the quality is completely lacking and frankly embarrasing with how!much exposed plastic is on the exterior let alone the inside. Also looked at Trackhawks, but couldnt look past the fact I hate Jeep!

[Performancedieselpros]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

When I buy an M car I'm not interested in "exclusivity" (which I read to mean to impress others). I'm interested in a well balanced, quick sports car. If BMW wants to festoon the "M" on lesser cars, I don't care. If other drivers who buy these cars want to feel that they have M-light cars, why should that concern me?

My purchase is for my driving satisfaction, not to impress others.

(The same is true with the AMG GT I bought to replace my i8. Mercedes slaps a lot of big engines in unbalanced cars and calls them AMG models. I am interested in a well-balanced sports car, and the AMG GT, which was designed entirely by AMG, is just that.)

So as long as BMW makes well balanced M cars I don't care that it slaps the "M" on its non-M models. It does that to stay alive. Which means the M division will remain alive, too.

For those of you who want to impress others with your car purchase, well there is always Lamborghini.

The GT reminds me "slightly" of the original production Viper, with how it's proportioned.

Reading your last statement about the Lambo reminds me of something I heard long ago.....

What do you say when you see someone with a Ferrari... "so you couldn't afford a Lamborghini huh?"

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

Look OP I get what your feeling....However the simple fact of the matter is people nowadays can afford very expensive cars. Now its also a product of where we live (Northeast new jersey NY. Lots of companies and lots of people with money)...Now you can't tell me an m3 is nearly as spotted as Porche macan turbos, and teslas and they cost more.

With the watering down of the M brand to plaster it over lower models...makes sense for the company. I mean lets all just face it, The M badge doesn't mean diddly poo unless attached to an actual M vechicle. Now we know that and the public won't. Either we get over it, or go buy a supercar, which you may be suprsided unless U can afford an aventador or Pagaini. That there will be many others.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Not entirely, I disagree... if someone pays a premium for a car that is supposed to stand for motorsports, it is rather disappointing when all of the cars that cost half price and are everywhere are driving around with the same badges. BMW did it for sales and it worked well, however for the enthusiast or who doesn't want a car like absolutely every other, its very off puting and may alienate them from the brand... remember this used to be done by ricers only... now suddenly bmw does it and its completely OK.

They might have the same badges, but they aren't the same cars. I didn't pay for a badge, I paid for how it drives. If someone can't tell the difference between a M340i and an M3, why would I care?

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by jmg

They might have the same badges, but they aren't the same cars. I didn't pay for a badge, I paid for how it drives. If someone can't tell the difference between a M340i and an M3, why would I care?

Pass this information on to anyone driving an exotic...

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Performancedieselpros

If you bought am M for exclusivity I laugh, the exact same way I did when I told my buddy who bought his Rolls Royce Wraith a couple months back that his car was basically a BMW with custom finishes.

Yeah, but that's kind of like saying a Ferrari 488GTB is just a Kia with custom mechanicals and finishes. Yes but .... similar things are not the same, and it's the "little" differences that frequently provide the core value.

That having been said, I can't speak for Rolls, but I was recently driven to the airport in this custom Bentley - it was nice and all, and I liked it more than a comparable Benz, but I can barely imagine renting one for 5 minutes much less buying one. Definitely not the normal way I travel, and having done it I wouldn't ever pay more for it ...

Those vehicles all fall into the but-what-is-this-for? category for me.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Pass this information on to anyone driving an exotic...

Exotics are a different ballgame and Ms aren't exotics.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Yeah, but that's kind of like saying a Ferrari 488GTB is just a Kia with custom mechanicals and finishes. Yes but .... similar things are not the same, and it's the "little" differences that frequently provide the core value.

That having been said, I can't speak for Rolls, but I was recently driven to the airport in this custom Bentley - it was nice and all, and I liked it more than a comparable Benz, but I can barely imagine renting one for 5 minutes much less buying one. Definitely not the normal way I travel, and having done it I wouldn't ever pay more for it ...

Those vehicles all fall into the but-what-is-this-for? category for me.

a 488 is a fiat

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by jmg

Exotics are a different ballgame and Ms aren't exotics.

Still not sure what means... we r talking about product differentiation here of a very expensive item...

[jmg]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Still not sure what means... we r talking about product differentiation here of a very expensive item...

Part of the appeal of exotics is exclusivity. Ms are mass produced and they are NOT very expensive relatively speaking.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by jmg

Part of the appeal of exotics is exclusivity. Ms are mass produced and they are NOT very expensive relatively speaking.

Part of the appeal w an m car is the same... they r produced in much lower volume than the base cars... to most, $70k is a lot for a car.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Part of the appeal w an m car is the same... they r produced in much lower volume than the base cars... to most, $70k is a lot for a car.

Seems like we're looping back to my original statement. I don't see exclusivity at all.

[MicaCeli]

Currently the only thing more rare then a 400+HP, manual, well handling sedan is a wagon with the same pedigree.

If you are looking to stand out from the crowd, remember that there will always be someone with more money and taste then you.

[MojoRider]

Originally Posted by Elaz

Bmw has messed up the M brand. These things are everywhere now. It use to be more exclusive. They need to bring it back there again.

This question aside. How does one go negative on reputation score?

[Spa2k]

Originally Posted by MojoRider

This question aside. How does one go negative on reputation score?

Careful - The answer may be asking off-topic questions.

What you’re looking for may be here:
http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1472480

[Bobby_Drake]

So what M car does the OP drive to be complaining about exclusivity?

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by Bobby_Drake

So what M car does the OP drive to be complaining about exclusivity?

It says e92M