[c63er]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

GM just announced another round of layoffs at one of their plants. They're cutting a shift. Also as other have said auto loan debt levels are very high.
There's going to be some difference between manufacturers, but for most if not all it'll be a down/mediocre year.

https://mises.org/blog/six-graphs-re...and-auto-loans

No question about it. But a sign of a good company is the one who can buck the negative trends or atleast dampen them. Not be the leader.

Do you honestly see signs of good product strategy at bmw right now? You think sharing platform with Toyota is a good marketing or product move for a brand like bmw? Let's be realistic here

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Exactly, WAY too expensive. It's a sick joke really, and all these drones with their fleases and eight car loans enjoying that free money while being debt slaves, just so they can drive something shiny.

Speaking of price, has anybody else noticed how a freaking X3 costs not much less than a Macan? I'm rolling with the sexier and more fun to drive Porsche 100% of the time and I suspect a lot of people are too.

And the Q5 is a better overall vehicle than the X3 and can be had for thousands less. A no brainer if you ask me.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Exactly, WAY too expensive. It's a sick joke really, all these drones with their fleases and eight car loans enjoying those easy loans while being debt slaves just so they can drive something shiny and pretend they're something they're not. ;D

Well here's the thing. If you can buy an econobox for the same price that you'd lease a 3 series as well as plan on dumping the econobox in 4 yrs regardless it might not be that bad of a decision.

[vladberca]

This trend is not common in other markets 👀

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

So does this mean I can get a massive discount on a 7-Series right now? Lol! I'd pick a new G11 up tomorrow if i was stuck in my 4-Series lease for another 2 years.

I wonder if the 6er Gran Coupe has hurt the 7er at all. It costs roughly the same (if not a little more) and is far sexier and more entertaining to drive. Plus the interior design doesn't put one to sleep. It would certainly be my choice.

[Laki021]

Originally Posted by c63er

Probably has nothing to do with the product they are selling. No reason to place responsibility on the product. (Sarcasm)

The only reason they sold so many in the first place were ridiculous lease deals. Not based on the underlying product.

Most important thing for BMW is that global sales are UP. Basically demand is higher than the supply so no reason to sell so many cars in the US for the lower price than in the other countries. Luckily the US is not the center of the world for BMW... Makes perfect sense, sell a bit less cars with higher price and make higher profit...

Originally Posted by c63er

Amg is up massively. Again probably has nothing to do with improvements in the product. (Sarcasm again)

And most of those "AMG"s are A45, E43 etc. models that do not deserve to wear the AMG badge! OF course that they are up when AMG brand is getting diluted.
Imagine numbers for M division if BMW would count all M140, M550i or even 540i M Sport (it is a worthy opponent to the E43, M550i is miles ahead), M division numbers would skyrocket, much more than AMG...

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Speaking of price, has anybody else noticed how a freaking X3 costs not much less than a Macan? I'm rolling with the sexier and more fun to drive Porsche 100% of the time and I suspect a lot of people are too.

And the Q5 is a better overall vehicle than the X3 and can be had for thousands less. A no brainer if you ask me.

This comparison does not make much sense, in a few weeks, the all new X3 will be released. Current X3 is an extremely old model at the very end of its life.

So, wait few months and get the all new BMW X3, really no brainer for me.

[RPiM5]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I wonder if the 6er Gran Coupe has hurt the 7er at all. It costs roughly the same (if not a little more) and is far sexier and more entertaining to drive. Plus the interior design doesn't put one to sleep. It would certainly be my choice.

I had the opportunity to drive the new 7-Series quite a bit. It's hands down one of BMW's best products right now in my opinion, and is a giant leap from the previous F01 7-Series.

No, what I think hurts the 7-Series is price, residual value, competition, and most of all the demographic of shoppers today. Who really needs a giant luxo-barge these days when you can call an Uber Black or Uber Lux, and be picked up in a 7-Series and chauffeured around town for far less than it would cost to own such a car?

I just personally love the look of the car and how it drives and the bespoke luxury that truly separates it even from the new G30 5-Series.

[hinckley]

Both Audi and Merc sales are up. So this is not an sector-wide thing. The 3er sales are most disconcerting, especially considering that there's still one more year left for the current, but old model. I wonder whether the new A4 has significantly eaten into its market share. It's also interesting that the X3 saved the whole SAV lineup considering that it's in its last year. Are they discounting that model substantially or is the market-wide rising SUV tide lifting it as well?

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

I had the opportunity to drive the new 7-Series quite a bit. It's hands down one of BMW's best products right now in my opinion, and is a giant leap from the previous F01 7-Series.

The problem is that the people on these boards are not traditional luxury car buyers. We place too much emphasis on driving dynamics. Real luxury car buyers don't hang out here. They're in Merc dealerships buying an S-Klasse!

[hirkaismyname]

Nice, what are you thinking of picking up?

Originally Posted by NickyC

This is only the start, auto market is prime to pop pop pop. Looking forward to picking up something nice in 12 months with cash, thanks to all the folks with fleases and eight year car loans riding in shit they can't afford!

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by hirkaismyname

Nice, what are you thinking of picking up?

Had my eye on a 4C spider or a V8 F-Type vert! I love my little Z4M Roadster however, so not sure if I'm ever going to sell and get something newer. Also, still not ready to give up the manual yet.

[3M TAPE]

Originally Posted by alex2364

Their sales have dropped because they're killing their lease programs. It will continue to drop if that continues.

Yeap, my friend's 328i lease was up, he leased 330i again with almost $100+ more a month than the 328i.

[NickyC]

Cracks all over the place, GM record channel stuffing.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...ession-started

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by BMWRL

That new 7 series is really tanking.
I'll say it again, BMW needs help.

Going stellar globally. The new 730e has a waiting list in some markets.

[insanecoder]

Auto loan bubble we're seeing the crest beginning to falter

[BMWRL]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Going stellar globally. The new 730e has a waiting list in some markets.

This thread and report is about US sales not the rest of the world. Don't distract from the point that it is not selling in the US, smh for a brand new model. It's already down and the poor invisible beast still has 5 more years in it's cycle

[ah3nyc]

If sales fall 11% monthly what will decrease be overall for this year? I'm guessing 30-40% overall.

[basiluf]

Originally Posted by ah3nyc

If sales fall 11% monthly what will decrease be overall for this year? I'm guessing 30-40% overall.

It's 11% based on May 2016 sales. If it falls 11% monthly, then the year will be down 11% as well.

[basiluf]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Industrywide softening of the market. Nothing new here.

Sales were flat industry wide this month, with BMW, Hyundai(-18%), and Fiat(-15.8%) being the biggest losers. The problem with BMW is not only decreased incentives, but competition from other manufacturers that wasn't there 3 years ago. Before the X5 only had to compete against a couple of German rivals. Now not only are they competing against those same German rivals, but there are multiple models to fight against, plus competition from the other European manufacturers and from the Grand Cherokee. These numbers are here to stay. No longer can they dominate the luxury market when there is so much good competition.

Luxury Manufacturers

Alfa Romeo +1989%()
Jaguar +43.9%
Maserati +33.9%
Infiniti +15.6%
Volvo +12.0%
Cadillac +9.2%
Porsche +5.0%
Acura +2.8%
Audi +2.5%
Land Rover +0.9%
Lexus -4.8%
Mercedes- -6.8%
BMW -11.1%

[ah3nyc]

Originally Posted by basiluf

Sales were flat industry wide this month, with BMW, Hyundai(-18%), and Fiat(-15.8%) being the biggest losers. The problem with BMW is not only decreased incentives, but competition from other manufacturers that wasn't there 3 years ago. Before the X5 only had to compete against a couple of German rivals. Now not only are they competing against those same German rivals, but there are multiple models to fight against, plus competition from the other European manufacturers and from the Grand Cherokee. These numbers are here to stay. No longer can they dominate the luxury market when there is so much good competition.

Luxury Manufacturers

Alfa Romeo +1989%()
Jaguar +43.9%
Maserati +33.9%
Infiniti +15.6%
Volvo +12.0%
Cadillac +9.2%
Porsche +5.0%
Acura +2.8%
Audi +2.5%
Land Rover +0.9%
Lexus -4.8%
Mercedes- -6.8%

Would love the look of an Alfa but not its reliability

[knepsterd]

Stevio SUV all day

[Mr.SugarSkulls]

Shit residuals+ shit incentives+no msds = DUH.