[knepsterd]

Sales of BMW and MINI in the Americas decreased 13.5% in November compared with the same month last year: a total of 39,051 vehicles were delivered to customers in the region. Year-to-date sales of BMW and MINI vehicles in the region total 412,873, which is down 7.7% compared with the same period last year. While year-to-date sales are up in Canada (41,326 / +5.8%) and Mexico (30,871 / +13.2%), the exceptionally competitive market in the USA has seen deliveries decrease by 10.2% (327,711).

[AW335TT]

I think the E Class coupe is my favorite from the 3. Have to see it in person to say for sure but I love how it looks in pictures.

[Fundguy1]

Can anyone explain why my observation that
1. Bmw devoted a ton of money towards electrics
2. MB didn't
3. There's a new president who's going to kill electric sales through lifting restrictions on oil exploration on federal lands and removing incentives to buy them
4. Just another reason bmw is positioned badly for sales vs mb. MB bet on cars that would appeal to the passion of driving. BMW bet on policy that is going away.

Was removed? It's pertinent to the discussion. Its not offensive. I find my money being taken from me to be spent on somebody else's electric car to be highly offensive. I find gas prices being double what they should be for 8 years highly offensive. And both because socialists want to redistribute wealth throughout the world using the sham of global warming highly offensive. The country is split 50/50 over global warming as is the science. Yet any mention that its a sham or the consequences of the policies is removed even if pertinent to the conversation. To me electrics are just as offensive as guns are to an antigun liberal. But i don't scream to have any climate change or electric car post removed because I'm offended. Either ve consistent and remove those too or leave both sides be and get out od the freshman safe zone. The left lost. Brexit, USA, now Italy with more to follow. Trump has appointed a climate change debunker Scott Pruitt, head of the EPA, Exxon CEO the new secretary of state, and Rick Perry the new head of the Department of Energy. Carbon emissions are finally being debunked worldwide. Get over it. If you want an electric fine. But don't use my money to buy it and raise my gas prices to make it more attractive. And stop removing my posts about it because they aren't personal, sexual, violent, or any other type of offensive. They are pertinent to the discussion.

[Red Bread]

You know Trump isn't the German Chancellor? Or that BMW isn't in Detroit, right?

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

You know Trump isn't the German Chancellor? Or that BMW isn't in Detroit, right?

Yes. But why did they take down my post that only said bmw went electric which was a mistake, and mb didn't choosing cars with big power instead? I didn't go political jihad. It was pertinent. I merely stated they took a politically correct bet on climate change and lost. But someone get's offended anytime anyone suggests climate change isn't real or electrics aren't good. If those two tidbits are so offensive that you feel it needs to be censored, you need therapy, not crying to an admin to remove the blasphemy.

As for Ms. Merkel, her days are numbered. Banning burkas won't remove the millions of muslims from her country she let in by mistake. There's a new feeling in the world over this stuff and change is finally coming.

BMW is loosing to MB. And one of the big factors is BMW put their bet on electrics and lost. MB put their bet on passion with big power gas guzzlers and won. How is that not pertinent information to the discussion?

[Questofthetune]

Originally Posted by P1et

Mercedes is coming out with some beautiful cars. The S-Class Coupe is just stunning.

The S class coupe is the reason I'm going to college. I need that car.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Can anyone explain why my observation that
4. Just another reason bmw is positioned badly for sales vs mb. MB bet on cars that would appeal to the passion of driving. BMW bet on policy that is going away.

You know how I know you've never driven a Mercedes before?

[Questofthetune]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

You know how I know you've never driven a Mercedes before?

Wait wasn't MB's motto "the ultimate driving machine"??

Oh....

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Yes. But why did they take down my post that only said bmw went electric which was a mistake, and mb didn't choosing cars with big power instead? I didn't go political jihad. It was pertinent. I merely stated they took a politically correct bet on climate change and lost. But someone get's offended anytime anyone suggests climate change isn't real or electrics aren't good. If those two tidbits are so offensive that you feel it needs to be censored, you need therapy, not crying to an admin to remove the blasphemy.

As for Ms. Merkel, her days are numbered. Banning burkas won't remove the millions of muslims from her country she let in by mistake. There's a new feeling in the world over this stuff and change is finally coming.

BMW is loosing to MB. And one of the big factors is BMW put their bet on electrics and lost. MB put their bet on passion with big power gas guzzlers and won. How is that not pertinent information to the discussion?

Agree that Merkel can count the days, but your other points are a bit tactical and not seeing the big picture. MB is just playing the status quo and it's working. Right now.

BMW put their money in carbon and electrics and hybrids. Lighter, torquier and more efficient cars will be the better long play, even if they're not fully sorted yet.

[overcoil]

You all really think the Mercedes drive better then the BMW?

Anyone test drive the new 7-series?

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

You know how I know you've never driven a Mercedes before?

Actually own 2 lol.

[Germanauto]

BMW's lineup, save for the new 7, 5, and X1, is long in the tooth. To go along with that, they aren't any special to drive anymore. So what advantage does BMW have over Mercedes anymore? Benz used to be garbage during their Chrysler days, but since the release of the current W222 S-class every new release has been beyond solid inside and out. BMW needs to stop with the mediocrity. The bean counters have ruined the brand we have come to love.

I was driving my beautiful mint condition E90 yesterday (black on terracotta w/ burl wood) and felt saddened because the type of connection that car has to the road is gone from every BMW and won't be returning soon. The F30 has essentially the same interior as the E90 with slightly downgraded material quality, whereas the A4 and C-class moved forward with their redesigns. BMW is in a sad state right now. The only cars that would get my money are the M2 and M3/M4.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

BMW's lineup, save for the new 7, 5, and X1, is long in the tooth. To go along with that, they aren't any special to drive anymore. So what advantage does BMW have over Mercedes anymore? Benz used to be garbage during their Chrysler days but since the release of the current W222 S-class every new release has been beyond solid inside and out. BMW needs to stop with the mediocrity. The bean counters have ruined the brand we have come to love.

You're opinion. I happen to disagree.

[Unknown_Car]

Originally Posted by double_j

I'm not sure about this one...while my favor for the E-class has faded a bit (I really liked it at launch), I still think that Mercedes designs have an 'edge' lacking with BMWs. BMWs are a bit too anonymous anymore and IMO have become very similar to Audis with their general lack of road presence (with an exception for the S8 or RS7).

I'm not sure why but I just think that the Mercedes designs look more distinctive. Maybe it's their sharper lines or something.

Agree. Since mercedes stopped spending money on Chrysler. And started spending money on there own cars, they started making most beautiful cars on the road today especially sedans.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

You're opinion. I happen to disagree.

They may be marginally better than the competition, but nothing like they used to be where you'd be willing to put up with slightly less exciting interior designs or crummy electronics because the driving experience was so heads and shoulders above the rest. I still prefer the look of BMWs to Mercs and Audis, but that isn't enough to keep me from considering those brands in the future.

Heck, my folks refused to trade in their 2013 E70 X5 M sport with factory performance upgrades because the F15 felt like crap in comparison! BMW has gone mainstream and lost the die hards who they built their reputation on.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

They may be marginally better than the competition, but nothing like they used to be where you'd be willing to put up with slightly less exciting interior designs or crummy electronics because the driving experience was so heads and shoulders above the rest. I still prefer the look of BMWs to Mercs and Audis, but that isn't enough to keep me from considering those brands in the future.

Heck, my folks refused to trade in their 2013 E70 X5 M sport with factory performance upgrades because the F15 felt like crap in comparison! BMW has gone mainstream and lost the die hards who they built their reputation on.

Being an active member of BMW CCA, I would say that is not completely true. There are many BMW die hards that are not lost.

[iconoclast]

Around here majority are older vehicle Owners and not the mass-market.

[Fundguy1]

Where's here?

[AW335TT]

Would be pretty hard to pick between this and a M4. Lap times aside, the M4 has nothing on this car.

[F22_Raptor]

AMG's F1 success is a huge contribution to their brand equity.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by F22_Raptor

AMG's F1 success is a huge contribution to their brand equity.

Doubtful. Seven people care. And it's not like Renault sold billions of cars in the early 2000's.

[AW335TT]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Doubtful. Seven people care. And it's not like Renault sold billions of cars in the early 2000's.

AMG sales were up 44% in 2016..