[Killramos]

SO here is a question for you

Manufacturer A builds 1000 Cars, sells 998 of them.

Manufacturer B builds 10000 Cars, sells 8500 of them.

Which car is more successful?

Hint: You can't answer the question with the data at hand.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by Killramos

SO here is a question for you

Manufacturer A builds 1000 Cars, sells 998 of them.

Manufacturer B builds 10000 Cars, sells 8500 of them.

Which car is more successful?

Hint: You can't answer the question with the data at hand.

AMG GT S is not a limited production car. if they sell more they will make more.

With the data at hand, the initial supply was high for people that have reserved and/or paid deposits for the car initially. for over 4 months after that, the product has sold less and less.

So what you are saying would make sense if they had limited production and is making fewer cars each month.

neither is the case for this model.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Killramos

SO here is a question for you

Manufacturer A builds 1000 Cars, sells 998 of them.

Manufacturer B builds 10000 Cars, sells 8500 of them.

Which car is more successful?

Hint: You can't answer the question with the data at hand.

Every car that is manufactured is sold. There is no junk pile somewhere full of unsold cars. The question is how much revenue per unit.

If Mercedes is limiting production, sure. But the common understanding is that they went down-market from the previous SLS with the intention of competing where the meat of the luxury sports car market is. I think there is a way for them to take a larger slice of this pie, but the GT is a strange bird with just two models that are nearly the same performance. Lots of room for expansion to be sure.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

The article you posted uses the 911 as a basis for comparison against the AMG GT, and many instances of the 911 are also more expensive than the Z06 while not outperforming it. Yet, the 911 sells extremely well.

Price/Performance is not strictly the issue here.

Good points.

911 has several things that the Z06 does not.

Porsche has legions of loyal fans.

Porsche has several versions of the car, i.e. various 4wd coupe, targa and cabriolet, etc.

There is room enough in this world to have many sports cars that compete or have similar price ranges. My theory is that if the much cheaper sports car is a better performer in almost all categories of performance, it will adversely affect the sales of the much more expensive car, because rich buyers are very discriminating and want to spend on a car that they perceive is the best. Not obtained enough evidence for this specific theory, that would take too much time.

[dtwyim]

When you are shopping in the 100k+ car category, it doesn't have to make sense. You get what you want for whatever reason you want. Some people buy it for bragging rights, fastest 0-60.....

Also, people driving those cars usually have multiple vehicles, the vehicle they pick does not have to check all the boxes, only what they want in that vehicle.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

no, that means that they are there waiting to be sold.

SMH really guy are serious what do you think the AMGs are there for? wait wait that makes no sense right...

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

Not obtained enough evidence for this specific theory, that would take too much time.

Well, as you acknowledge, Porsche is one counter example. But, as you point out, they have done that by building up a legacy and fan-base over time. For a new model like the GT, you can't expect to just come in near the top end of what's still considered attainable and make huge waves when established players can both outperform and undercut you, plus match the bling factor. Since we don't know exact details of Mercedes business case, it's hard to gauge the performance in the marketplace against expectations, but certainly the sales look a little weak right now.

I wonder how it's selling compared to the SLS at, what, half the MSRP?

[Mr. Liu]

I have been lusting over the GT-S ever since I spanked it around COTA at the Benz Driving Academy. Will wait for prices to settle, if it ever does, to get into one!

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by Killramos

SO here is a question for you

Manufacturer A builds 1000 Cars, sells 998 of them.

Manufacturer B builds 10000 Cars, sells 8500 of them.

Which car is more successful?

Hint: You can't answer the question with the data at hand.

Here is a list of inventory of 2 large dealers in my area:

MB OF ANAHEIM: 20 CARS AVAILABLE
http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/invent...-CPE/class-GTS

FLETCHER JONES MB: 19 CARS AVAILABLE
http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/invent...-CPE/class-GTS


Trust me, that is bad in Los Angeles. No way that car is going MSRP in LA.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Well, as you acknowledge, Porsche is one counter example. But, as you point out, they have done that by building up a legacy and fan-base over time. For a new model like the GT, you can't expect to just come in near the top end of what's still considered attainable and make huge waves when established players can both outperform and undercut you, plus match the bling factor. Since we don't know exact details of Mercedes business case, it's hard to gauge the performance in the marketplace against expectations, but certainly the sales look a little weak right now.

I wonder how it's selling compared to the SLS at, what, half the MSRP?

agreed, see inventory on my post above.. i don't think it is doing better than the sls.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

so that means they don't sell? If I drive to Vista bmw right now they have 2 m3s in the show room and 6 other m cars not to include the other 50 on the lot.

see inventory above post. they don't sell.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by Killramos

So did people think the AMG GT-S was supposed to be a high volume seller?

As far as I can tell they sell every single one they make. I doubt AMG is losing any sleep over it.

I could have bought a Corvette stingray for the price i paid for my M235i with its packages and optional diff. Does that make me an idiot?

Corvette was never on the radar. Just like a Z06 isnt on the radar for people buying an AMG GT-S.

Personally I think the AMG GT-S is a brilliant car, and if I was in the market for a car like it with that kind of money to spend it's likely what i would buy.

exactly. who the hell cross shops a Z06 with a beautiful, artful AMG GT?

VERY FEW PEOPLE.

the AMG GT is a beautiful sports car that appeals to a certain buyer.

Only internet people sit around cross shopping these....real buyers would never.

[Killramos]

Before reading this thread and actually looking at 911's i never realized how slow most of them actually are in terms of HP and 0-60 etc.

When you want to talk about 911's and AMG GT's ( or even GT-S's) the only one in the lineup that is close to the performance of the AMG is the Carrera GTS. You need to get into a turbo ( which is obviously a much higher performer that the AMG GT-S at that point admittedly ) to break 500 HP.

I wonder how many GTS's Porsche sells out of that larger sales figure? The GTS also starts at a price 30 grand above the base 911 that everyone quotes. The turbo, 70 grand above.

And we all know what a "base" Porsche really comes with lol.

Oh and lets not even talk about how much of a HP loss a GTS would have versus an AMG GTS at altitude due to the NA engine.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

see inventory above post. they don't sell.

If you think a dealer just randomly bought 20 GTS when they wont even buy c63s unless they are on preorder what makes you think they won't sell? then on top of that they are all 2016s lol... people are clearly buying them. would you like me to pull the m3 inventory? in one dealership alone over 30m3s 20 xm5s I guess those arent selling? your thought process to this is not very well structured very well for this argument.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

If you think a dealer just randomly bought 20 GTS when they wont even buy c63s unless they are on preorder what makes you think they won't sell? then on top of that they are all 2016s lol... people are clearly buying them. would you like me to pull the m3 inventory? in one dealership alone over 30m3s 20 xm5s I guess those arent selling? your thought process to this is not very well structured very well for this argument.

Premise: AMG GT S is not selling well- (btw, I really like this car myself)

Provided as supporting evidence:

1. article by major financial news site citing relevant sales and figures. It also notes that this car has been heavily marketed i.e. superbowl ads and it is not selling well- PER the Article, not me.

2. sales per month of the car since it has come out showing declining sales over the last several months- down to less than 1/2 of the rate of sale when the car was released.

3. local inventory of the car showing that considering they are selling less than 100 per month in the entire united states, they have a substantial amount of inventory sitting in dealerships.

"would you like me to pull the m3 inventory?"

why is that even part of this conversation? I never mentioned m3 or m4 or x5 for that matter since you obviously care about the cars I drive. it is not a thread of m3/m4 vs amg gt s sales, nor is it a thread about mb vs bmw. Please start your own thread about how much m3/m4 sales suck compared to whatever.

[Properstyle]

I didn't even look at what you drive. Sense you didn't connect the dots. it was an example of inventory not being clear view of what sales are. Hense 30 m3 on the lot 20 x5ms. clearly they selll yet the dealer has a huge number sitting there was the point. Holy crap you would think you could figure that part out. You don't drive a x5m yet I said x5m. SMH

[TXSTYLE]

Originally Posted by Killramos

So did people think the AMG GT-S was supposed to be a high volume seller?

As far as I can tell they sell every single one they make. I doubt AMG is losing any sleep over it.

I could have bought a Corvette stingray for the price i paid for my M235i with its packages and optional diff. Does that make me an idiot?

Corvette was never on the radar. Just like a Z06 isnt on the radar for people buying an AMG GT-S.

Personally I think the AMG GT-S is a brilliant car, and if I was in the market for a car like it with that kind of money to spend it's likely what i would buy.

I could not have said it any better!

[caycep]

that being said, I think this car is most likely a "loss leader" halo car for MB, so even if they don't break even, the "branding" value probably will keep it going.

Also, doesn't this compete w/ the Viper, not the Corvette?

[David70]

Originally Posted by -BEASTMW-

Me too.

I don't get the incessant "Corvette is faster for less $" or "GT-R would kill X for half the price." If this truly mattered to everyone, there would only be like 5 sports cars on the market and no one would buy a car that costs more yet isn't faster. In reality, people car about looks, sound, image, the way the car feels/handles in addition to pure numbers. Would you buy a cheaper smartphone that has better specs/performance, even if it looked terrible, was way too big, felt cheap, was difficult to use and crashed all the time?

X2. Somehow a lot of internet population believes that taking two cars around a track and comparing lap times with one car ahead of another by any measurable amount equates to being the determining factor for the best car.

I would buy the car I liked the best (sound, looks, fun to drive, performance, price, many other factors) and am ok with the possibility of ending up at a track with another car, another driver with the exact same skill as me, we start at the exact same time, and him being a few seconds faster around the track. Confuses me why this extremely unlikely event would matter much to me. Yes performance matters but it is one of many factors.

[48Laws]

Saw one in south beach. Road presence is tremendous. Wish it came in 7 speed manual tranny.

[dkhm3]

Originally Posted by David70

X2. Somehow a lot of internet population believes that taking two cars around a track and comparing lap times with one car ahead of another by any measurable amount equates to being the determining factor for the best car.

I would buy the car I liked the best (sound, looks, fun to drive, performance, price, many other factors) and am ok with the possibility of ending up at a track with another car, another driver with the exact same skill as me, we start at the exact same time, and him being a few seconds faster around the track. Confuses me why this extremely unlikely event would matter much to me. Yes performance matters but it is one of many factors.

When you are spending 150k for a car, it better be top notch.

Considering the cars in the same price as the GT S you are looking at some stiff competition. McLaren came out with a supercar you can get for 20k more. P turbo is a better car as well.

Now, even if you are not looking to compare shop this car with a z06, it doesn't help your bragging rights if you are spanked by a car so much cheaper.

If I was shopping for an m3, but say it can easily be beat in all performance numbers- acceleration, handling, etc by a car costing 20k less, for instance a Chevy Malibu, I would maybe hold on to my money for a few months and wait for a better car.

Keep in mind, it would be my fun car and not a DD. It is exactly what is happening to the GT S. It is a 2nd or 3rd car and it is a non essential purchase.

[48Laws]

During that epic multi-car drag race, the Merc did extremely well iirc. It finished on the heels of the ZO7 and almost dead even with the Bentley Speed.