| 05-12-2015, 12:41 PM | #23 |
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If you feel bad you could always contribute to the 1 mil fine. Can't believe that people are paying....
http://www.gofundme.com/NewEnglandPatriots |
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| 05-12-2015, 02:59 PM | #24 | |
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Red: Check out the variety of sanctions -- mostly suspensions -- the NFL have assigned to various players for various infractions. Particularly, take a look at the NFL's 2007 statement to Titans cornerback, Adam Jones. Your conduct has brought embarrassment and ridicule upon yourself, your club, and the NFL, and has damaged the reputation of players throughout the league. You have put in jeopardy an otherwise promising NFL career, and have risked both your own safety and the safety of others through your off-field actions. In each of these respects, you have engaged in conduct detrimental to the NFL and failed to live up to the standards expected of NFL players. Taken as a whole, this conduct warrants significant sanction.Apparently the NFL feel that one must shoot someone before they deem one's conduct as having brought "embarrassment and ridicule upon [oneself, one's] club, and the NFL, and has damaged the reputation of players throughout the league." Really? As deplorable and unconsionable as shooting another person is, it's the type of action that I'd hardly consider as being potentially indicative of rampant depravity among NFL employees and owners. There is a huge difference in my mind between a dishonorable act carried out on the sly and in the service of one's own monetary benefit and personal/professional fame as compared with a shooting in a nightclub. Mr. Jones almost certainly felt the other party may have done him wrong, and shooting the guy was clearly the wrong way to handle the matter. I in no way care to defend or condone what Mr. Adams did, but his behavior reflects only on himself. If there's any reflection on the NFL as a whole, it's only that owners and general managers aren't especially circumspect in evaluating the personal standards of comportment of the individuals to whom they offer contracts. Other: Sure the NFL conducts background checks. By conducting them, presumably they discover what "skeletons" a potential recruit has in his closet. So what? If they conduct the background check, discover the person's story, and then decide they are okay with it, what's the point? Besides, they are conducting checks on people who, for the most part, are recent college grads. (assuming the candidate graduated) For the great many of them, just what is going to be in their background that's indicative of a pattern of much of anything other than youthful poor decision making of various types? Back in the early days of football, sure, having a college degree meant one in all likelihood came from a "respectable" segment of society and thus received a good deal of "breeding" in one's formative years. That's just not the case these days. For many professional sports players, college experience is relevant only as a way for recruiters to gauge their potential ability as professional players. It lets the team owners and managers determine how to craft the team that will generate maximum revenue, not maximum honorable, sporting play. I'm not even sure that, on the whole, the majority of top draft picks in any professional sports league are particularly high academic achievers who've demonstrated keen critical thinking skills while they are in college.
(Auburn definitely surprised me. I thought they are considered to be a reasonably decent school. -- http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandre...niversity-1009 . Ditto Michigan State: http://www.shanghairanking.com/World...niversity.htmlNow think and say what you will, but the fact is that I don't know of one non-sports/entertainment track career whereby a person graduating with less than a 3.5 can reasonably expect to have an outstanding chance at earning even $200K/year salaries within their first five years of graduating. Certainly in my field, management consulting, the top firms that will pay that much aren't very likely to hire such graduating student with less than a 3.5, although, yes, sometimes we do hire one or two having 3.2 or 3.3 overall averages, if their in-major grades are dramatically higher, generally 4.0 is expected in such cases. (The competition among MBA grads is even stiffer, for as a a grad student there really are only two overall letter grades permitted for graduation: A or B (3.0 or higher).) Ditto other highly paid fields like medicine, law, investment banking, engineering, and so on. Now it's not so much that I think one need be a genius, but developing the strong critical thinking skills needed to graduate with honors from a reasonably decent college/university will absolutely help a person make better choices when it comes to whether or not they just do downright stupid and unconscionable things. I think that's even more so if the person comes from challenging circumstances that didn't afford him with parents who effectively taught him right from wrong. What am I talking about with that last set of statements? Consider this. A couple years back, I was watching my youngest son playing a computer game. He was doing horribly at one point of the game (an FPS game). I suggested he might want to check on the WWW for some hints. Now what he boy said to me was that he knew about the cheats on the WWW but that was cheating and he didn't want to win that way. That was his response regarding a computer game he was playing by himself with no opponent other than a computer. IMO, that was the right answer. (It took him several hours to figure out how to get past that point in the game.) So many folks think that money is "everything" and the fast and "easy" way to riches is the right way to go. They are just wrong, wrong on so many levels. All the best.
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| 05-12-2015, 03:08 PM | #25 | |
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Call that stuff what you want, but it's certainly not expressly disallowed, so I have no issue with them doing those things. Truly, if the NFL want to alter their rules to allow for lower ball pressures when conditions are wet, fine. Amend the rules. Until then, the teams need to play by the rules that exist. Whatever disadvantage results from the existing rules will apply equally to both teams, and that's fair, regardless of whether the rules make any sense. Might there actually be practical reasons why the teams retain control over the game balls? I suppose there could be. I don't know what they are that makes them so onerous to overcome that your suggestion shouldn't or couldn't be adopted. All the best.
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| 05-12-2015, 03:48 PM | #26 | |
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Gifted athletes are not subject such high academic standards, they are there for sports and that's really it. Sports is a money maker allowing for other academic scholarships. Most people do not realize how much work goes into a D1 top notch program players. these student athletes put in 100 hours a week devoted to their craft, leaving little real time for class work unrelated to school. Who cares what grades they get or if they received a degree in basket weaving they are 1st round draft picks, the best of the best. Most do not make it to the professional world and I would hope they would invest more time in their studies but when you have your sights and show the ability to move to the next level Ds get degrees. I admire professional athletes on the simplest level in that it is capitalisms at its best. They can preform a job at a level that is not attainable for a average person(that's an understatement). An average person like myself can get an MBA but will NEVER be a professional athlete. I can work hard and become a doctor but can not hone myskills to compete on the highest sports stage. the free market dictates their worth and the best command the highest of wages. you can have your 4.0 GPA and be a CEO and run the country into the ground and receive a golden parachute. people worry about character in the NFL but in the business world and DC are where the real scumbags are. They have the worst moral compass I wish the NFL could Judge them So tom bent the rules, shocker, who cares small potatoes
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| 05-12-2015, 03:58 PM | #27 | |
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lower pressure in the ball, come on. Someone should investigate the colts of playing to terrible maybe they did take a dive? Cowardly for what protecting his privacy. Vacate wins? you do know it was only played unfairly for 30mins? then the real ass kicking started. Tarnish him, high doubtful he will go on to play a few more years and maybe even win another one what will be your excuse then? Your thought on how much advantage the psi in the balls gave is absurd. Everyone that knows anything about being a QB will say it is all preference that just happened to be not with in the rules
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| 05-12-2015, 05:24 PM | #28 | |
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Doctor. When the competition is that stiff and GPAs play such a crucial role in culling applicants, even the folks at the bottom of the class are bright and skilled people. It's not much different with the guy who finishes last in his law school class. I don't know how true it is, but I've heard that among law school graduates:
Blue: There's no doubt in my mind that college athletes have to commit a lot of time and effort to their game. The thing is that the institution is still a college/university. Athletes aren't the only students who extracurricular activities. Moreover, some athletes seem capable of finishing school with A averages, so I don't think it's asking to much to require all of them to finish with at least a B-. Why should they receive so much glory for doing only one thing -- playing a game -- for an institution that exists to pass on and develop academic skills? Either one is a student and one performs as such just as the rest of the students do while also preforming extracurricularly, or one doesn't and thus suffers the same fate as other students: expulsion. That's what happened to underperforming athletes at my high school (a private, college prep school) and I see no reason why that approach should change in college. The current approach clearly doesn't work, but perhaps something else will: That said, I'm not so naive that I think all student athletes arrive on campus ready to perform well academically. If you were to ask me, I don't think aspirants to professional sports should become degree seeking students at a college. Better, IMO, is that colleges create special programs, something akin to trade school programs at the high school level, for folks who there seeking solely to become pro athletes. (Heck, I frankly wouldn't care if colleges just got over the pretext of their players being students at all and instead merely paid them to play, treating it much like the minor leagues in baseball.) Perhaps something called "Practical Kinesiology," whereby the only somewhat academic requirements are that the students learn about the things that matter in theirs and other sporting pursuits. The programs need not culminate in a baccalaureate degree, but rather with some sort of certification that the student has mastered, intellectually, a set of relevant techniques that will make them better sports players. Certainly, individuals aspiring to careers in the performing arts have such programs available to them. (http://catalog.juilliard.edu/preview...&returnto=2358) The substance of most professional undergraduate programs is also similar in that regard: they prepare one for a career in the field in question. For example, for an accountant, a BS in accounting and passing the CPA exam is more than sufficient for a very rewarding career and very little math capability is required. It makes sense that folks pursuing careers in sports have a similar track. At least were such an option to exist, it would be at least meaningful for a student athlete to complete the curriculum and do so with a solid grade point average. Do I think pro sports players need to master calculus, history or literature? Of course not. On the other hand, having a practical understanding of the physics (i.e., not having to manipulate the equations, but certainly understanding the concepts) that affect their sports -- leverage, friction, force, etc. -- could very well be quite useful. Similarly, having a good understanding of interpersonal dynamics -- sociology and psychology -- would very likely benefit all players as they try to gel as a team, and various players assume the role of team leaders. It makes sense to me that a professional sports playing aspirant, like actors, doctors and accountants, need a specialized set of skills. Now sure as I am willing to accept in principle a college level program that isn't necessarily academically challenging -- at least in the traditional sense of what that entails -- I nonetheless wonder why it is that a special "carve out" should be needed for sports players. It seems to me that military officers also need a special set of skills, particularly those that become SEALs, Rangers, et al, yet every officer is also as academically capable as any other typical college graduate. There's definitely a part of me that doesn't see why a different, lower, set of academic expectations should be deemed acceptable for sports players in college. Indeed, in the long run, I think sports leagues do a disservice to many players by overlooking their below average academic performance. The fact is that sports is a short career and once one cannot play, and having finished college with a D or F, one is little different than a person having but a high school diploma, and probably not one that reflects rigorous academic performance. The result is that a lot of pro sportsmen, once the money runs out, have a tough way to go. What else, after all, are they qualified to do? I know I couldn't hire most of them into my firm for any position other than mail clerk or receptionist.
I have two 20-something kids and one who will be soon enough. I'm not even remotely worried about whether they'll be successful, but I know already just from what I've observed in them and their friends, along with my own experience having been a 20-something, that they have a lot to learn that never is taught in school/university. The difference is that I and my kids come from a background that provided sound guidance re: ethics, critical thinking and decision making. I relied on my parents and their friends and associates, along with professional mentors, to make it through young adulthood pretty well unscathed and well prepared for the rest of my life. Can we really say that of these kids that join professional sports leagues, and particularly the NFL? All the best.
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Tony ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ '07, e92 335i, Sparkling Graphite, Coral Leather, Aluminum, 6-speed |
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| 05-12-2015, 05:55 PM | #29 | |
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Why is it that you find it necessary to exculpate someone for violating the trust that was given to them, not only by the NFL, but also by the fans? It's a matter of professional ethics. Period. There are no degrees of cheating. One either followed the stated rules without exception or one knowingly didn't. (Particularly rules that one is given the benefit of the doubt with regard to compliance.) Regardless of the outcome, the fact remains that multiple individuals in one organization willfully took it upon themselves on multiple instances in one game -- first by underinflating the balls and second by not doing anything to correct their teammates actions to that end -- to clandestinely circumvent the rules and sought thereby to gain advantages for their team. BTW, 30 minutes is half of a football game. Winning plays and successions of plays have been made in far less time.
If he does so without violating the rules which he himself agreed to follow, there won't be anything to say. As an aside, once the under inflated balls were discovered, and seeing as each team maintains responsibility for the balls used, had the league simply required the Patriots to forfeit the game for having used them for half of the game, I'd have considered that sufficient punishment. Given that the onus for integrity, honestly, with regard to rule compliance rested on the respective teams, I feel a "shoot first, ask questions later" approach would have been warranted. Blue: So long as the man adheres to the letter of the rules stipulated while the game is being played, there'll be nothing to gripe about. Green: ??? http://www.indystar.com/story/sports...gate/22110063/ All the best.
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| 05-12-2015, 09:13 PM | #30 | |
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The Indy star just reiterated my point, fractions of a possible advantage. I don't deny wrong doing but I think Brady should only miss maybe 1 game or just a 250K fine. The damage is done the golden has a shiner and boy oh boy could the haters not wait pummel him again. But America loves a come back more than anything.... Your other reply is the answer for most of Americas problems with entitlements and laziness but that is a incomplete generalization on my part. Socioeconomics implications are a major factor in determining moral fiber of young America. It is a steeper and longer ladder to the shrinking middle class( then generations before ) and the widening gap between the have and have nots. (I am 30 by the way with 2 young kidos) Having a solid foundation never hurt anyone but you everything reverts back to the money tree of the NCAA. the subpar student athlete is here to stay.
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| 05-13-2015, 09:31 AM | #31 |
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I think this whole thing is hilarious. Cheating because a football is 1 PSI lower than the "low-limit". So before the rule was introduced to the league by Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, et.al. that each team can being their own "seasoned" footballs, the game was played with a ball provided by the league, which I doubt from game to game was set precisely at the exact same pressure.
If I were Tom Brady, I'd "retire" (like Brett Favre) for the season, and see how the money grubbing pigs at the NFL HQ take that. OMG, no Brady vs. Manning AFC championship, WHAT are we going to do.  LOL
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| 05-13-2015, 01:14 PM | #32 |
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if they really cared about cracking down on cheating, suspend Brady for the entire year.
The punishment implies that NFL just doesn't think this is a big deal and effects the integrity of the game. All things considered, spygate was a bigger issue.
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| 05-13-2015, 10:30 PM | #33 |
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Ultimately all of what we fans think doesn't matter, bc Goodell only answers to the owners and I imagine he took a temperature of all the other owners when handing this down
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| 05-14-2015, 12:38 AM | #34 | |
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| 05-14-2015, 03:54 AM | #36 | ||
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The issue is that there is a clear and simple game rule regarding the ball pressure, the teams are entrusted to comply with that rule, and one or more Patriots employees willfully sought to defy the rule for sole purpose of providing the Patriots with an edge. Clearly the practical implications and consequences of the under inflation are none. It's the tacit ethical and moral statements of the act of willfully defying the rules of a sport and the punishment that riles my dander. Quite simply, there's nothing sporting about that sort of behavior. Quote:
Yes, spygate (the Plame Affair?) had much more serious practical implications/outcomes. But practical ends and a culture's (nation, city, neighborhood, company, family, group, etc.) ethical/moral values can't be compared such that they can be deemed more or less important than one another. Of course, where one stands on consequentialism vs. deontology (http://www.philosophybasics.com/branch_deontology.html) determines how one will feel about the cheating. (http://www.iep.utm.edu/conseque/) I'm sure you can plainly see that regarding cheating in a football game, I am squarely a deontologist. Mind you, I don't always take that position. Regarding the Plame Affair, I'm far more consequentiallist. Why the dichotomy? Well, that's where the practical considerations come into play for me. Where the practical concerns are few and/or of minor import, I'm likely to be consequentialist. I think it's safe to say that there really wasn't any worthy practical outcome to have been obtained from willfully violating a very clear rule of a game, a rule, moreover, that one is trusted on one's own devices, in other words "honor bound," to follow. Thus on the matter of the cheating, my ethical compass aligns with deontological principles. All the best.
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| 05-14-2015, 05:10 AM | #37 | |
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LFOL.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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| 05-14-2015, 01:27 PM | #38 | |
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We are done. All the best.
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Tony ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ '07, e92 335i, Sparkling Graphite, Coral Leather, Aluminum, 6-speed Last edited by tony20009; 05-14-2015 at 03:45 PM.. |
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| 05-14-2015, 03:08 PM | #39 |
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I hate the Patriots but really? You want to suspend the whole team for the entire season? For what? Because some cocky QB wanted to deflate some footballs?
Besides, on top of the 4 game suspension (25% of the regular season) and the $1M fine, they also lose first round pick next year and a fourth round pick a year after that. I think it fits the crime. |
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| 05-14-2015, 03:45 PM | #40 | |
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If the team were denied the right to play in 2016 and the owner forced to nonetheless pay the salaries of the players who weren't involved in the matter, I think that would be sufficient to motivate all other team owners to take more than notional steps toward making sure that cheating and other ethical breaches don't happen. Have you seen any sports team owners say one word about the ethics of the matter? Has one of them bothered to say something about any aspect of the matter? All the best.
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| 05-15-2015, 06:32 AM | #41 | |
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"Consequentialism is the view that morality is all about producing the right kinds of overall consequences. Here the phrase “overall consequences” of an action means everything the action brings about, including the action itself." - This is just pin-headed babble. And this tidbit; it just doesn't make any sense. "Right takes priority over Good. For example, if someone proposed to kill everyone currently living on land that could not support agriculture in order to bring about a world without starvation, a Deontologist would argue that this world without starvation was a bad state of affairs because of the way in which it was brought about."
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Last edited by Efthreeoh; 05-16-2015 at 02:54 PM.. |
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| 05-15-2015, 04:47 PM | #42 |
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Spygate , deflategate, Ravens complaining.
Josh McDaniel taping practice while at Broncos. (at least Broncos let McDaniels go) I see a pattern. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5855075
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| 05-15-2015, 08:24 PM | #43 |
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The thing that I took note of is that this whole bunch didn't just do it.
When the deflated balls were discovered before the superbowl they also denied it. It was then decided not to punish them since evidence of wrongdoing wasn't there. I think they should lose the superbowl. Mainly for doing the equivalent of lying in court. |
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| 05-16-2015, 02:12 PM | #44 | |
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All the best.
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