[gthal]

Originally Posted by trinim3

I also get the impression that some many manufacturers are starting to favor the ZF-8 speed auto over DCTs. On paper it sounds horrible, but the newest ZF-8 speeds seem to be leaps and bounds better than in previous years--- almost as good as DCTs. Don't forget DCTs and SMGs were pretty bad when they first came out, so that's why judging something off of past performance isn't always the best idea

Yeah... no doubt the ZF-8 is a great tranny. I've only driven 2 cars with it and they were both impressive. Similar upshifts to the DCT but they were not as responsive on downshifts (which annoyed me). One issue many autos have is cooling at the track but I'm not sure if the ZF has this issue or not.

I think manufacturers like it on street based cars as it is smoother and likely cheaper. I still prefer a DCT because of the feel... it feels like a MT and behaves like a MT and you feel more of a mechanical connection. An auto mutes all of those things regardless of how fast it actually shifts. When Ferrari and Porsche put an auto in their track oriented cars then I'll think about it

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by gthal

Yeah... no doubt the ZF-8 is a great tranny. I've only driven 2 cars with it and they were both impressive. Similar upshifts to the DCT but they were not as responsive on downshifts (which annoyed me). One issue many autos have is cooling at the track but I'm not sure if the ZF has this issue or not.

I think manufacturers like it on street based cars as it is smoother and likely cheaper. I still prefer a DCT because of the feel... it feels like a MT and behaves like a MT and you feel more of a mechanical connection. An auto mutes all of those things regardless of how fast it actually shifts. When Ferrari and Porsche put an auto in their track oriented cars then I'll think about it

Totez agree. I'm really skeptical of the auto in the new Z06 despite all the marketing jargon from GM. Nothing more annoying that unresponsive downshifts.

[Divexxtreme]

My take? I took a new Gen V '14 Viper GTS off the showroom floor for a night a few months back. Absolutely loved the thing. It was extremely docile, yet fairly fast. The ride was outstanding, similar to the Stingray. The GTS versions are the loaded cars, and this one had a interior package called "Laguna" that adds even more leather. It's a similar level to the 3LT for Stingray or 3LZ for the Z06, but I actually liked the Laguna interior better than my 3LT Stingray interior, which is also very nice. The shift-feel is the best I've ever felt in a production car, and this is a huge selling point for me. The car also gets a MASSIVE amount of attention. People go bat-shit crazy over them, which can be good, or bad. It's also exceptionally exclusive. To this day, I still haven't seen a single Gen V Viper on the road, and they've been out since 2013. I also love that it doesn't come with auto or convertible options, which I feel will dilute the Z06 cachet (just my opinion).

The only cons of the Viper were the price (MSRP of $139k), and the headroom was tight even for me, at only 5'10. Other than that, it's spectacular. However, I ended up not getting it for two reasons: 1. They were stickered so high from the factory that they weren't selling new or used, which scared me for resale. 2. I didn't want to to pay $140k for a Dodge.

Fast forward to the Stingray and the Z06; I got into these because I know they would sell quickly if/when I wanted to get out of them. The Stingray is also spectacular, but I very much dislike the shift feel, and the fact that it's just another Corvette among a sea of Corvettes. The Z06 will be available in manual, auto, coupe and convertible which means even more Z06s on the road then before.

Until this news was released about the price drop, I was dead set on getting the Z06 I put a deposit down on two months go, but now I'm not so sure. I think this Viper price drop will get the Viper market started again and the truth is, I like the idea of a lighter, N/A Viper much more than the idea of a heavier, S/C Z06. I like it so much that I just emailed a new offer for the same GTS I passed on a while back (now that's it's sticker price is $15k less than it was), and if they meet me in a range where I'm comfortable, the Z06 is out, and the Viper is in. I think it's that awesome of a car, regardless of how great the Z06 turns out to be.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by Divexxtreme

My take? I took a new Gen V '14 Viper GTS off the showroom floor for a night a few months back. Absolutely loved the thing. It was extremely docile, yet fairly fast. The ride was outstanding, similar to the Stingray. The GTS versions are the loaded cars, and this one had a interior package called "Laguna" that adds even more leather. It's a similar level to the 3LT for Stingray or 3LZ for the Z06, but I actually liked the Laguna interior better than my 3LT Stingray interior, which is also very nice. The shift-feel is the best I've ever felt in a production car, and this is a huge selling point for me. The car also gets a MASSIVE amount of attention. People go bat-shit crazy over them, which can be good, or bad. It's also exceptionally exclusive. To this day, I still haven't seen a single Gen V Viper on the road, and they've been out since 2013. I also love that it doesn't come with auto or convertible options, which I feel will dilute the Z06 cachet (just my opinion).

The only cons of the Viper were the price (MSRP of $139k), and the headroom was tight even for me, at only 5'10. Other than that, it's spectacular. However, I ended up not getting one for two reasons: 1. They were stickered so high from the factory that they weren't selling new or used, which scared me for resale. 2. I didn't want to to pay $140k for a Dodge.

Fast forward to the Stingray and the Z06; I got into these because I know they would sell quickly if/when I wanted to get out of them. The Stingray is also spectacular, but I very much dislike the shift feel, and the fact that it's just another Corvette among a sea of Corvettes. The Z06 will be available in manual, auto, coupe and convertible which means even more Z06s on the road then before.

Until this news was released about the price drop, I was dead set on getting the Z06 I put a deposit down on two months go, but now I'm not so sure. I think this Viper price drop will get the Viper market started again and the truth is, I like the idea of a lighter, N/A Viper much ore than I do a heavier, S/C Z06. I like it so much that I just emailed a new offer for the same GTS I passed on a while back (now that's it's sticker price is $15k less than it was), and if they meet me in a range where I'm comfortable, the Z06 is out, and the Viper is in. I think it's that awesome of a car, regardless of how great the Z06 turns out to be.

Great post. You expressed my thoughts exactly...i wonder how many people on here have actually driven the viper. There would be a lot more fans if people would just go drive one.

[Andrew115]

Originally Posted by trinim3

Great post. You expressed my thoughts exactly...i wonder how many people on here have actually driven the viper. There would be a lot more fans if people would just go drive one.

Never been in one but would love to go for a spin. I suspect your right 99% of the haters prob have only seen one drive by and never actually drive it.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Andrew115

Never been in one but would love to go for a spin. I suspect your right 99% of the haters prob have only seen one drive by and never actually drive it.

I don't think it is about hating the car... it is simply that some cars don't create the same feeling for some. You don't need to drive a car to know whether you are interested in buying one. Some cars are just not on the list regardless of how capable they are.

[Andrew115]

Originally Posted by gthal

I don't think it is about hating the car... it is simply that some cars don't create the same feeling for some. You don't need to drive a car to know whether you are interested in buying one. Some cars are just not on the list regardless of how capable they are.

Your right poor choice of words on my part.

Not saying your hating on it but others will without experiencing. I was the same way with sushi when I was 10.

Even tho I won't buy one I still check them out when they are in view. Have to say every viper I have heard sounded amazing.

[daeguboy]

Originally Posted by trinim3

Sad thing is that it probably won't help. Lack of dual-clutch/automatic, means the Viper's total addressable market is 10-20% that of cars with automatics/dual-clutches.

Also the side-exhaust while exceptionally 'cool' looking, also make getting in and out of the Viper a bit scary. I remember when I drove the old SRT-10 how hellaciously hot it would get right by the driver/passenger door well. Another point, the Z06 is going to draw all the attention.

Lastly, $15k discount on cars in this price range isn't unheard of. Plenty of folks get $15k discounts on M5/M6s/Maseratis etc. The $15k discount was probably already happening so this is just a marketing ploy really.

Other than that, the Viper is an insanely good car.

my favorite viper. 2000 GTS

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by gthal

I don't think it is about hating the car... it is simply that some cars don't create the same feeling for some. You don't need to drive a car to know whether you are interested in buying one. Some cars are just not on the list regardless of how capable they are.

Understandable, but the best example I can give is my RS5. I had no desire whatsoever to even drive one let alone purchase one. I had read all the bad reviews from European mags and it just had no appeal to me to drive a heavy car. I ended up being at the Audi dealer helping a friend buy a stickshift S5 and the dealer insisted that I take the RS5 for a spin even though I explicitly told him I wasn't interested. To my pleasant surprise I not only liked it...I absolutely loved it. I went from not wanting one at all to buying one knowing I had a custom ordered M4 that I had been waiting 3 years for, about to be delivered in 4 months . Looking back I couldn't have been happier even though it made zero financial sense. I just can't bring myself to sell that RS5.

Sometimes the car that you least expect to like is the one that you end up liking the most

[Divexxtreme]

Originally Posted by trinim3

Great post. You expressed my thoughts exactly...i wonder how many people on here have actually driven the viper. There would be a lot more fans if people would just go drive one.

I'm confident that any fast car enthusiast who likes the way a M3 or M4 feels would absolutely love the feel of a Gen V Viper. Its not practical like an M car is, but it's a true driver's car with wonderful steering feel, a lot of power, low-weight relative to its power (5.4 lbs per hp), excellent handling, ride and sound, and the GTS Laguna leather interior is outstanding. Oh and the shift feel? Best I've ever felt. Even better (to me) than the S2000 shifter, which is quite famous for its feel.

[pgviper]

Viper has been a dream car of mine since being a kid. Despite the fact that I haven't driven one and that I can't afford one, I would love to evantually own one. I'm a huge camaro/corvette fan but if financially feasible, I would take a similarly loaded viper other BOTH every single time.

[swanson]

Originally Posted by Divexxtreme

I'm confident that any fast car enthusiast who likes the way a M3 or M4 feels would absolutely love the feel of a Gen V Viper. Its not practical like an M car is, but it's a true driver's car with wonderful steering feel, a lot of power, low-weight relative to its power (5.4 lbs per hp), excellent handling, ride and sound, and the GTS Laguna leather interior is outstanding. Oh and the shift feel? Best I've ever felt. Even better (to me) than the S2000 shifter, which is quite famous for its feel.

I would love to add one to my upcoming Z06.

[tdizzle]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

American performance cars don't use DCTs because their business case is about around sharing as much of their drivetrain as they can with higher volume models (like pickup trucks).

That doesn't explain the Viper's lack of two-pedal option though. I suppose it is just not in their budget to offer two transmission options, and they have no easy path to transition from manual-only to auto-only.

I bet the GT500 would sell more if it had a good auto/dct, but then again they usually get MSRP for those and they sell all they make and you dont see many sitting on dealer lots (or at least I haven't) long.

I think the buyer base hasn't whined enough and are more of the mind that an american muscle car (or something like the viper) should have 3 pedals. Also, not many people drive 600+ hp cars as daily drivers so the 'convenience' of an auto is mostly lost on that market.

[J50]

I had a 00 GTS, was a fun car. Definitely like the Gen V, but wouldn't buy one. Even the Dodge salesman told me why bother spending that kind of $ when you can get a C7.

Aside from the Gen V Rocky start, and price points. The C7 def took some wind out of the Viper's sales.

[E60orBust]

Originally Posted by Andrew115

Looks like dodge is willing to take a hit to stay competitive. All current models on the lots will get the same discount too.

Man I would hate to be the guy that bought a Viper last month.

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/09/08/2...rops-15k-2015/

Why? FTA

Dodge is giving all fifth-gen owners a certificate worth $15,000 towards the purchase of a new one, which comes in addition to the price reduction.

So if you trade your 2014 in for a 2015 that is identically equipped and have only owned it 1-2 months, you get a 2015 for ~$70K instead of the ~$100K you previously started with?

[Divexxtreme]

Originally Posted by J50

I had a 00 GTS, was a fun car. Definitely like the Gen V, but wouldn't buy one. Even the Dodge salesman told me why bother spending that kind of $ when you can get a C7.

My issue is that I can now get a brand-new, loaded '14 Viper GTS ($139k sticker) off of the showroom floor, for significantly less money than the cost of a loaded C7 Z06. So now it comes down to which car I prefer more.

[Andrew115]

Originally Posted by E60orBust

Why? FTA

I would hate to buy a car pay all taxes fees etc then see them slash the price 15K but offer me a good trade so I can pay all the taxes and fees again. No thanks. Unless I am understanding that incorrectly they just charged the previous buyer $15K+ more for the same care compared to the buyer today.


FTA? I don't know what Free Throws Attempted has to do with any of this.

[E60orBust]

Originally Posted by Andrew115

I would hate to buy a car pay all taxes fees etc then see them slash the price 15K but offer me a good trade so I can pay all the taxes and fees again. No thanks. Unless I am understanding that incorrectly they just charged the previous buyer $15K+ more for the same care compared to the buyer today.


FTA? I don't know what Free Throws Attempted has to do with any of this.

FTA - From the article

I think there is a modest (<20) HP/TQ bump between the years, most likely due to an ECU tweak, but even at a modest $2-4K in fees, you are still paying $10K less than the "new customer" who is a first time buyer.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by M3guy3

one thing i also dont really like about the car is the engine. I love V10 engines, but i this one is different. Doesnt even sound that great also.

the high revving V10 engines from Europe are much better IMO. I think the viper is better off having a V8.

Actually, I love the Viper's V10. Very throaty, smooth, and baritone. Not whiny and high pitched like some of the Italian supercars.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Hmm... In American style, I think this motor dates back to starting out as a Truck motor. But please correct me if I am wrong

This is incorrect. It is one of the longest myths in the Viper folklore. It is one of the lightest V10's on the planet and all aluminum. It was codeveloped with Lamborghini. The engine was going to be used for Lambo trucks but was not. It did make it to the Ram. But either way, it was not developed for a truck and still is an enormously capable engine after it's numerous revisions over the last 20+ years.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by thebmw

This is incorrect. It is one of the longest myths in the Viper folklore. It is one of the lightest V10's on the planet and all aluminum. It was codeveloped with Lamborghini. The engine was going to be used for Lambo trucks but was not. It did make it to the Ram. But either way, it was not developed for a truck and still is an enormously capable engine after it's numerous revisions over the last 20+ years.

I never said it was a bad motor, I just know it was used at one point in a Ram.. lol, not hating... I like any NA V10... I got nothing but love

[zosoboogie]

give the viper dual clutch similar to the M4 and I would trade the M4 in 2 years