[Mavus]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The engine is not any different than any other high performance GM small block. Okay, the transmission is new, but built by Tremec. The frame looks pretty stout to my trained eyes. Other than layout, what really is that new that GM doesn't know how to do? Caddy V-series cars are just as, and more powerful. The frame has hints of Alpha in it. GM has plenty experience in building reliable cars.

The electrical system is new for the Corvette platform, but not new for GM. What is high-risk in your mind?

For h/w definitely brakes and xmsn including coding.

s/w and sensor integration is a whole another topic but I am expecting electrical gremlins.

Also, cooling, vehicle stability, handling, steering, braking, etc. In general until somebody performs a platform shakedown in the real world it is impossible for anybody to predict. For example, will it go into limp mode after 10 hot laps? Will the brakes take the beating?

In general, the price makes me uncomfortable. Can GM deliver top to bottom repeatable/reliable performance at this level for $60-70k? Maybe ...

[N54Yankee]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

No offense, but the 'norm' for a 59-year-old median male buyer is substantially larger than the 'norm' for the median run-of-the-mill male car buyer. I'm not buying that for a second -- especially with a mid-engine chassis, in which leg room is essentially at the discretion of the designers.

One of Chevy's original packaging goals for the 'vette was to design a car befitting (pun intended) U.S. astronauts: Bigger, muscular, and often tall military types. Guess that's no longer the case ...

... as for the bubble: if I had the driving talent (and funds) of Dan Gurney, sure: I'd have interiors customized for my stature. I don't, and most everybody else doesn't, either. I get that joke thrown my way all the time; it doesn't make the fact that I can't drive more than half the cars made for more than a few minutes at a time any easier to digest.

I just think it's uproarious that, when just about everything on a car gets larger with a new model introduction, interior space seems to get smaller more often than not. On a car such as this, that really makes absolutely zero sense to me from every conceivable standpoint.

The size limit for the 60’s-70’s astronauts was 5’ 11” max. Those capsules were itty bitty things and you at your size wouldn’t even squeeze in. Armstrong was 5’ 11”, Buzz was 5’ 10, Collins 5’ 11”. astronauts back then were all fighter pilots and cockpits were(are) small and there were and still are size restrictions for pilots as well.
I do feel for you if you seriously was interested in one but I do understand why they did what they did, for the same reason USAF, USN, NASA did.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by The HACK

3,600 is C&D's estimate based on the 3,366 lbs dry weight. For reference, the base C7 weighs 3,348 soaking wet (full tank of gas, operating fluids, etc).

Using the C7 as basis for weight, here are the fluid capacities:

18.5 gallons of fuel: 6.073 lbs x 18.5 = 112.35 lbs
11.3 qt of coolant: 2 lbs x 11.3 = 22.6 lbs
9.7 qt of 0W-40: 1.7 lbs x 9.7 = 16.49 lbs
1.75 gallons of windshield washer fluid: 8.34 lbs x 1.75 = 14.59 lbs
6 qt of 75w-90 gear and transmission lubricant: 1.7 lbs x 6 = 10.2 lbs

These are just the major fluids that I can think of off the top of my head. 176 lbs without factoring other ancillary fluids like brake hydraulic fluid (1 liter), eLSD fluid (can't find the capacity of ATF that's required to operate the eLSD), refrigerant, etc, but I suspect adding another 10 lbs or so isn't out of the norm.

Let's take a conservative estimate of 180 lbs for all fluids, you're at 3,546 (heavier than the C7 Z06 curb weight of 3,524) for the base model. Add the fact that the Z51 package will likely come with bigger iron rotors and a slew of other mechanical upgrades (performance exhaust etc), a 3,600+ lbs curb weight for a lightly equipped C8 with Z51 package is a very conservative estimate.

And you haven't even added the driver yet.

I guess I wasn't considering a full tank of gas, in other cars we never did HPDE or TT with a full tank. And with much smaller tanks.

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

Also, cooling, vehicle stability, handling, steering, braking, etc. In general until somebody performs a platform shakedown in the real world it is impossible for anybody to predict. For example, will it go into limp mode after 10 hot laps? Will the brakes take the beating?

Speaking of hot laps, I find it concerning that their chief engineer said the C7 Z06 was designed with the following:

1. The Z06 Manual is designed to keep engine oil, coolant, transmission and differential fluids below the hot warning targets when driven by a professional on a 30C day (86F) on a "typical" racetrack for an indefinite period of time (effectively the time to burn through a full tank of fuel). Our team validates the durability of the Z06 cooling systems with a 24hr accumulated track test to simulate the most aggressive track-day usage by our customers.

2. We designate our track: the Milford Road Course, as the "typical" standard, but recognize that there are tracks around the world which are easier on a cooling system and some which are harder on a cooling system. Generally speaking, tighter tracks with lower average speed and higher sustained RPM, will drive higher fluid system temperatures.

3. Higher temperature ambient conditions affects all car's abilities to run sustained laps at ten-tenths.

4. The Z06 Automatic transmission put in "Drive" selects the lowest possible gear ratio for best acceleration, and because it has 8 closely-spaced ratios typically runs higher average RPM than the manual. This optimizes lap time performance, but also taxes the engine oil and coolant more for any given track. So the automatic has the capability to run faster laps than the manual, but thermal limitations are reached more quickly. Customers who are planning to run extended track-day sessions at 'professional' speeds, are advised to go with the manual transmission, or to paddle shift the automatic and select higher gears when conditions warrant it.

5. Any time the maximum recommended temperatures are reached in any condition, the DIC will give warnings at the appropriate time for coolant, oil, or transmission fluid. A cool-down lap or two will bring operating temperatures back to a reasonable level and aggressive track driving can be resumed.

86F degrees is nothing in the summer. This doesn't bode very well for the C8.

You can read about it here. https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-on-track.html

[N54Yankee]

Originally Posted by Now_Rudi

I wouldn't be saying the streets would be over run with them. Couldn't care less what they charge for them as I'll not be owning one. I'm not saying that it's a POS; I don't know enough about the car to make that assessment.

Where I live, only doctors and lawyers drive anything exotic (I'm calling a Cayman exotic), anyone who has the garage space and the money has a Corvette around here. I also live in really small town and small towns have an abundance of small town mentalities.

Just curious, where do you live that a Cayman is considered an exotic?

[King Rudi]

Originally Posted by N54Yankee

Just curious, where do you live that a Cayman is considered an exotic?

RUR-al TN. Not a vehicle that I, myself, consider an exotic, but definitely an exotic in this "neck of the woods." If it isn't a lifted pick-up truck, an altima, camaro, mustang, mini-van or a saturn, people look at you like you're a rock star. The guys around here that drive corvette's act as if everyone should get down on their knees and kiss their ass because they drive one.......usually 10-15 miles under the speed limit I might add.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by alex2364

Speaking of hot laps, I find it concerning that their chief engineer said the C7 Z06 was designed with the following:

1. The Z06 Manual is designed to keep engine oil, coolant, transmission and differential fluids below the hot warning targets when driven by a professional on a 30C day (86F) on a "typical" racetrack for an indefinite period of time (effectively the time to burn through a full tank of fuel). Our team validates the durability of the Z06 cooling systems with a 24hr accumulated track test to simulate the most aggressive track-day usage by our customers.

2. We designate our track: the Milford Road Course, as the "typical" standard, but recognize that there are tracks around the world which are easier on a cooling system and some which are harder on a cooling system. Generally speaking, tighter tracks with lower average speed and higher sustained RPM, will drive higher fluid system temperatures.

3. Higher temperature ambient conditions affects all car's abilities to run sustained laps at ten-tenths.

4. The Z06 Automatic transmission put in "Drive" selects the lowest possible gear ratio for best acceleration, and because it has 8 closely-spaced ratios typically runs higher average RPM than the manual. This optimizes lap time performance, but also taxes the engine oil and coolant more for any given track. So the automatic has the capability to run faster laps than the manual, but thermal limitations are reached more quickly. Customers who are planning to run extended track-day sessions at 'professional' speeds, are advised to go with the manual transmission, or to paddle shift the automatic and select higher gears when conditions warrant it.

5. Any time the maximum recommended temperatures are reached in any condition, the DIC will give warnings at the appropriate time for coolant, oil, or transmission fluid. A cool-down lap or two will bring operating temperatures back to a reasonable level and aggressive track driving can be resumed.

86F degrees is nothing in the summer. This doesn't bode very well for the C8.

You can read about it here. https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-on-track.html

Exactly that. We don't know what use cases GM considered to optimize design.

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by alex2364

I really like the new C8 but don't sell your NSX for it. You'd regret it after a year.

Yeah, that's one thing about the old NSX, you just don't see them everyday.....but there is something to be said about a 28 year newer car that has 200 more HP and a warranty..... it is such a great looking car and the numbers are incredible that it's almost worth giving up the exclusivity of the classic NSX for it.

Also, these aren't exactly priced like a Camaro, so they're not going to be everywhere with a $70K+ OTD price for a lightly optioned one.

As much as I'd like to be able to just get my order in right now, the smart move is to wait for the CPO's to start hitting the market.

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by alex2364

Speaking of hot laps, I find it concerning that their chief engineer said the C7 Z06 was designed with the following:

1. The Z06 Manual is designed to keep engine oil, coolant, transmission and differential fluids below the hot warning targets when driven by a professional on a 30C day (86F) on a "typical" racetrack for an indefinite period of time (effectively the time to burn through a full tank of fuel). Our team validates the durability of the Z06 cooling systems with a 24hr accumulated track test to simulate the most aggressive track-day usage by our customers.

2. We designate our track: the Milford Road Course, as the "typical" standard, but recognize that there are tracks around the world which are easier on a cooling system and some which are harder on a cooling system. Generally speaking, tighter tracks with lower average speed and higher sustained RPM, will drive higher fluid system temperatures.

3. Higher temperature ambient conditions affects all car's abilities to run sustained laps at ten-tenths.

4. The Z06 Automatic transmission put in "Drive" selects the lowest possible gear ratio for best acceleration, and because it has 8 closely-spaced ratios typically runs higher average RPM than the manual. This optimizes lap time performance, but also taxes the engine oil and coolant more for any given track. So the automatic has the capability to run faster laps than the manual, but thermal limitations are reached more quickly. Customers who are planning to run extended track-day sessions at 'professional' speeds, are advised to go with the manual transmission, or to paddle shift the automatic and select higher gears when conditions warrant it.

5. Any time the maximum recommended temperatures are reached in any condition, the DIC will give warnings at the appropriate time for coolant, oil, or transmission fluid. A cool-down lap or two will bring operating temperatures back to a reasonable level and aggressive track driving can be resumed.

86F degrees is nothing in the summer. This doesn't bode very well for the C8.

You can read about it here. https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-on-track.html

There is a great video out on YouTube right now explaining all the engine tech in the new design and all the sump pumps they installed throughout the engine to keep the oils at optimal levels.

This ain't you dads Vette no more.....this is a whole new level.

Can't wait to see some actual 0-60 and lap times and reviews

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

I cant wait to see one in person. OP, how did you find out about this event at your local dealership?

I got lucky... I called my local dealership the other day just to ask some questions about pricing, etc... and the lady told me about the special even on Thursday from 4-8 pm , well my work schedule wasn't going to work so I called the day of the event and asked if it was in the showroom and able to be seen before the show. She said no at first, then said hold on....comes back on and ask me if I could come by at noon? Hell yes!!! Lucked out and got a pretty much secret showing ....so cool!!!

They are going to be touring the US with the three cars from the debut show.... so call your local dealer to see when they might be in your area.

This was the same car from the Jay Leno video

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

As much as I'd like to be able to just get my order in right now, the smart move is to wait for the CPO's to start hitting the market.

Waiting on a CPO is just going to put you up against the release of the Z06. And we all know what the answer will be then.

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Waiting on a CPO is just going to put you up against the release of the Z06. And we all know what the answer will be then.

Haha... yeah, I think I’d be just fine with a z51 though


Interesting tidbit I forgot to mention about yesterday

The Chevy rep told me why the HP number was 495...
said it is much cheaper and easier to insure a car that has under 500 HP than one with over 500 HP.....brilliant marketing

[Socal_R8]

Here is one of my videos from yesterday

https://twitter.com/socalnsx/status/...358782976?s=21

And a better one from a yotuber

[jondagger]

YoY their numbers drop, but at new releases they skyrocket!

Lets assume they will come back in the game at 40k+ volumes. forsure these will be everywhere. To put into perceptive, M235i for instance consistently gets ~10,000 sold yearly in US. Another ~10k in Europe.

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

No offense, but the 'norm' for a 59-year-old median male buyer is substantially larger than the 'norm' for the median run-of-the-mill male car buyer. I'm not buying that for a second -- especially with a mid-engine chassis, in which leg room is essentially at the discretion of the designers.

One of Chevy's original packaging goals for the 'vette was to design a car befitting (pun intended) U.S. astronauts: Bigger, muscular, and often tall military types. Guess that's no longer the case ...

... as for the bubble: if I had the driving talent (and funds) of Dan Gurney, sure: I'd have interiors customized for my stature. I don't, and most everybody else doesn't, either. I get that joke thrown my way all the time; it doesn't make the fact that I can't drive more than half the cars made for more than a few minutes at a time any easier to digest.

I just think it's uproarious that, when just about everything on a car gets larger with a new model introduction, interior space seems to get smaller more often than not. On a car such as this, that really makes absolutely zero sense to me from every conceivable standpoint.

I'm 5'11" and sat in one yesterday....plenty of leg room and with the roof on, I still had at least six inches of head room. Anybody under 6'4" should have no issues fitting in this car

[Socal_R8]

Interesting info from one of the Chevy reps from the showing yesterday I forgot to mention in my post.

He told me they kept the HP at 495HP because it's much easier and cheaper to insure a car under 500HP than a car that has over 500HP....brilliant

[See5]

So say you're at 3,600lbs for a C8 Z51.

The competition is coming in at:

Porsche 992 Carerra S/4S - 3400-3500lbs
Porsche 718S - 3100lbs
Mercedes GT AMG - 3800lbs
Audi R8 - 3700-3900lbs
Lamborghini Huracan -3450-3650lbs
Ferrari 488(on its way out) - 3400-3500lbs
Acura NSX - 3860lbs
McLaren 570S - 3200lbs
Jaguar F-Type R - 4000lbs

I think its pretty much spot on given its price, power, standard targa top, and relatively large storage.

Should still be significantly quicker than the C7 Z51 in most cases.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

For h/w definitely brakes and xmsn including coding.

s/w and sensor integration is a whole another topic but I am expecting electrical gremlins.

Also, cooling, vehicle stability, handling, steering, braking, etc. In general until somebody performs a platform shakedown in the real world it is impossible for anybody to predict. For example, will it go into limp mode after 10 hot laps? Will the brakes take the beating?

In general, the price makes me uncomfortable. Can GM deliver top to bottom repeatable/reliable performance at this level for $60-70k? Maybe ...

When did vehicle stability, handling, steering, and braking become "reliability" issues? You make it sound like GM doesn't do any computer-aided engineering and testing. I'm sure GM did a shitload more "shakedown" then any of the car mags or internet video whores will ever do. Software and sensor integration... really?

The C7 had some minor heat issues, since corrected. The C7 base MSRP was $55K IIRC. How will the C8 be that much different? They moved the engine to the middle of the chassis, it's not that drastic of a redesign.

[Grumpy Old Man]

[QUOTE=Viffermike;25072608]No offense, but the 'norm' for a 59-year-old median male buyer is substantially larger than the 'norm' for the median run-of-the-mill male car buyer.

Man, you are really hammering away at some of the folks on this forum....

[See5]

Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man

How so? Looking from a position of hindsight, I'd say the C3, C4 & C5 maybe.
C6 and C7 became really great sports cars.
C1 and C2, were stunning pieces of rolling art.

The C8 is really pushing the hype right now since we haven't seen any real reviews, driving tests or rolling examples yet, and yes going mid engine a huge departure and in some respects it doesn't look like a vette I'd still say this thing if fresh and will continue to look fresh for a long time to come.

Second to the C8, the C5 was the largest change the Corvette ever had. Almost as big as moving from the 993 to 996 for comparison.

[N54Yankee]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

No offense, but the 'norm' for a 59-year-old median male buyer is substantially larger than the 'norm' for the median run-of-the-mill male car buyer. I'm not buying that for a second -- especially with a mid-engine chassis, in which leg room is essentially at the discretion of the designers.

One of Chevy's original packaging goals for the 'vette was to design a car befitting (pun intended) U.S. astronauts: Bigger, muscular, and often tall military types. Guess that's no longer the case ...

... as for the bubble: if I had the driving talent (and funds) of Dan Gurney, sure: I'd have interiors customized for my stature. I don't, and most everybody else doesn't, either. I get that joke thrown my way all the time; it doesn't make the fact that I can't drive more than half the cars made for more than a few minutes at a time any easier to digest.

I just think it's uproarious that, when just about everything on a car gets larger with a new model introduction, interior space seems to get smaller more often than not. On a car such as this, that really makes absolutely zero sense to me from every conceivable standpoint.

I might have some good news for you. Here’s a guy who a tad taller and heavier then you and did the test. Try one on for size when they come around by you.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Originally Posted by See5

Second to the C8, the C5 was the largest change the Corvette ever had. Almost as big as moving from the 993 to 996 for comparison.

Except the 996 is ugly. But I take your point.