[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

At least Merc are out of the way hopefully and Max will deal with Lec as best he can. A more pace efficient PU in Ferrari is no good if it's still lagging in the aero.
I'd guess there's more drag on the Ferrari with those strange side pods cancelled out a bit by the power of the perky PU. It should be all square with the weight being lost on the 18.

Ferrari to make significant power increase with PU2 scheduled for 2022 Spanish GP – report

=>https://scuderiafans.com/ferrari-to-...ish-gp-report/

[3798j]

Originally Posted by irunalot

Totally agree but there are so many facets to a good driver.

Even with a good car, you need a consistently fast driver. Not fast in one race but above average pace in every race. Case in point is Bottas, hes a good above average driver and last few years in the best car. He lacked the consistent pace to be a contender. He had flashes of serious pace but could not delver that every weekend and each session of the weekend. Once you are fast on a consistent basis you can not make mistakes when it counts, qually race etc.. Then you need race craft to fight for wins and podiums.

Then there are the intangibles such as car feedback, performance under pressure, ability to bounce back from rough races/sessions, and knowing when its not your day and just salvaging some points and not wrecking trying to do more than you can.


This is what separates champions from the guys that are on the podium every few races that are all in fast cars. Sure you need a car but all of the above are needed to win championships.

With thoughts on the anniversary of Jim Clark’s death (yesterday), your post on what makes a great driver sounds so very correct.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by irunalot

As a Merc fan I'm losing optimism very quickly. Others are getting faster and they are getting worse. They are so far off a consistent winning pace and real upgrades will not come until race 10. The car looks like a real handful, my thought is they possibly went down the wrong development path. There is still a chance that they find that one change that brings all the performance together as that happens with new cars but race 10 is a bit to late IMHO. I'll wear my Ferrari hat for race wins and hope Merc can find their way soon.

You're way too intelligent and reasonable to be a Merc fan. I would have never guessed.

Originally Posted by irunalot

The F1 teams need to call some WEC or late 70s F1 engineers as they have been dealing with this for years. Overall these cars need a lot of polish.

They need Porsche and Audi way sooner than 2026. Both of those manufacturers have championship pedigree for underbody downforce hybrid cars.

[NYG]

Vettel fined for the moped.

[irunalot]

Originally Posted by NYG

You're way too intelligent and reasonable to be a Merc fan. I would have never guessed.

They need Porsche and Audi way sooner than 2026. Both of those manufacturers have championship pedigree for underbody downforce hybrid cars.

More of a Hammy fan but since he drives a Merc so be it

They need Porsche and Audi way sooner than 2026. Both of those manufacturers have championship pedigree for underbody downforce hybrid cars.[/QUOTE]

F1 needs Porsche and Audi like yesterday. F1 would just be incredible with two more MAJOR manufacturers in play that have each had uber success in motorsports including hybrid technology.

[NYG]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...rence/9712530/

Hamilton: Nothing we change on Mercedes F1 car makes a difference

[irunalot]

Originally Posted by 3798j

With thoughts on the anniversary of Jim Clark’s death (yesterday), your post on what makes a great driver sounds so very correct.

Yes, Jim Clark was an amazing driver! Chapman gave him a great car, but his talent as a driver is what made him and the car rise above the others.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by NYG

Vettel fined for the moped.

Poor ol VET having not having a good weekend start after his lay up with covid.

[irunalot]

Originally Posted by NYG

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/h...rence/9712530/

Hamilton: Nothing we change on Mercedes F1 car makes a difference

I will say that even though the car looks like a total disaster they are still the 3rd fastest car on race day. They are ahead of the midfield but behind the RB and Ferrari. So maybe did something right, and it seems like there is a combination of issues that they have not figured out. problem is time is running out and top two will run away from you as they are also still developing, which could make it near impossible to catch up. Even if they get the car working, they will then be way behind on development. They can't throw resources at it like they before.

I hope they have a eureka moment and find that "thing" as a three way fight would be great to see. Lewis, Max and Charles going for it every weekend would be a delight.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by irunalot

I will say that even though the car looks like a total disaster they are still the 3rd fastest car on race day. They are ahead of the midfield but behind the RB and Ferrari. So maybe did something right, and it seems like there is a combination of issues that they have not figured out. problem is time is running out and top two will run away from you as they are also still developing, which could make it near impossible to catch up. Even if they get the car working, they will then be way behind on development. They can't throw resources at it like they before.

I hope they have a eureka moment and find that "thing" as a three way fight would be great to see. Lewis, Max and Charles going for it every weekend would be a delight.

Regardless of dislike for Lewis, I have huge respect for Mercedes and their engineers. I have no doubts they improve throughout the season but their base design was a gamble that didn't work out for them. I was honestly confused by all the folks that took the no sidepod thing as some sort of engineering marvel. I think they set themselves up for failure in 2022 regardless of improvement and I think for a team of that caliber anything less than constructor champions is probably going to feel like a failure for them. I'm not even confident they can be 3rd in constructors but that's probably their target at this point.

I'm just glad there's more parity this year but I'm really hoping we can get some more teams competing at the front and less in the mid-field/back.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Just got up and yeah as normal Lec then Max with 16 porpoising crazy and...Chas saying lots of air in the cockpit around the legs. Some aero being tunnelled through the cockpit then.
Poor ol VET has got the luck of a slug trying to cross a motorway, that's why I never have a green car

[irunalot]

Originally Posted by NYG

Regardless of dislike for Lewis, I have huge respect for Mercedes and their engineers. I have no doubts they improve throughout the season but their base design was a gamble that didn't work out for them. I was honestly confused by all the folks that took the no sidepod thing as some sort of engineering marvel. I think they set themselves up for failure in 2022 regardless of improvement and I think for a team of that caliber anything less than constructor champions is probably going to feel like a failure for them. I'm not even confident they can be 3rd in constructors but that's probably their target at this point.

I'm just glad there's more parity this year but I'm really hoping we can get some more teams competing at the front and less in the mid-field/back.

I admit I even thought it was a marvel, but that was due to being spoiled by past performance as you can't deny the performance of the cars, they built from 2014-2020, and the comeback they had in 2021. That takes some serious engineering talent and hard work. It also shows what you did in a previous generation doesn't mean squat today.

To be where they are this year and totally lost on a solution is disappointing for them and their fans. To have zero updates for a horrible car is surprising, although you need to know what you’re building a solution for, and I don't think they do. I've never seen them so lost before. That being said and as you mentioned, I'm happy to see fighting at the front and Ferrari has always been my "other" team to cheer for so I'm not crying in my cereal just yet.


I have to admit, I am cheering for Haas as well.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by irunalot

I admit I even thought it was a marvel, but that was due to being spoiled by past performance as you can't deny the performance of the cars, they built from 2014-2020, and the comeback they had in 2021. That takes some serious engineering talent and hard work. It also shows what you did in a previous generation doesn't mean squat today.

To be where they are this year and totally lost on a solution is disappointing for them and their fans. To have zero updates for a horrible car is surprising, although you need to know what you’re building a solution for, and I don't think they do. I've never seen them so lost before. That being said and as you mentioned, I'm happy to see fighting at the front and Ferrari has always been my "other" team to cheer for so I'm not crying in my cereal just yet.


I have to admit, I am cheering for Haas as well.

I don't blame you at all. Their absolute dominance of the previous era should have inspired that confidence in most people. As soon as I saw the design, even though I thought it was a really bad call, I thought maybe they had engineered some sort of solutions beyond the human mind's capability of processing complicated fluid flow but the more I looked at LMP cars and other underbody designs, the more I realized that it was a slim chance.

I think right now they're struggling with cost cap. They need a complete rework of multiple parts of their car and can not afford testing different parts every week.

Absolutely. Gotta support my Murrica and Guenther.

Best part about F1 is how easy it is to be a fan of so many drivers on the grid. It's awful watching how bad McLaren is but happy to see my favorite driver kicking ass again. I'd love to cheer for Charles too but since this year is shaping up to be VER v LEC, I've gotta stick with my man Max.

I want to see these young talented guys moving up the grid (Lando, Pierre, Ocon, Mick). Other sports like NFL or NBA, I have to stop watching because the Giants and Knicks are complete garbage and I refuse to root for anyone else.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by NYG

I don't blame you at all. Their absolute dominance of the previous era should have inspired that confidence in most people. As soon as I saw the design, even though I thought it was a really bad call, I thought maybe they had engineered some sort of solutions beyond the human mind's capability of processing complicated fluid flow but the more I looked at LMP cars and other underbody designs, the more I realized that it was a slim chance.

I think right now they're struggling with cost cap. They need a complete rework of multiple parts of their car and can not afford testing different parts every week.

Absolutely. Gotta support my Murrica and Guenther.

Best part about F1 is how easy it is to be a fan of so many drivers on the grid. It's awful watching how bad McLaren is but happy to see my favorite driver kicking ass again. I'd love to cheer for Charles too but since this year is shaping up to be VER v LEC, I've gotta stick with my man Max.

I want to see these young talented guys moving up the grid (Lando, Pierre, Ocon, Mick). Other sports like NFL or NBA, I have to stop watching because the Giants and Knicks are complete garbage and I refuse to root for anyone else.

Interesting what happens when MB can't pour millions or tens of millions into development. Maybe they got used to spending so much more than everyone to win that now that they can't operate that way they're lost. Additionally, the other teams certainly seem to have better designs too and while MB might be able to move the needle a bit, the other teams seem to be moving it more and are likely more adept at doing so, particularly on tighter budgets.
Is there truth to the fact that MB were working on the hybrid PU in 2007 before they pitched the idea to the FIA in 2012 effectively giving them years of development more than anyone else?

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Marko has said Ferrari can't keep that pace up for the whole race with that jumping, it will take a toll on the car and driver and from practice so far Max was able to keep a tab on Lec.
Longrun analysis is that Max is just one tenth slower than Lec.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by NYG

Regardless of dislike for Lewis, I have huge respect for Mercedes and their engineers. I have no doubts they improve throughout the season but their base design was a gamble that didn't work out for them. I was honestly confused by all the folks that took the no sidepod thing as some sort of engineering marvel. I think they set themselves up for failure in 2022 regardless of improvement and I think for a team of that caliber anything less than constructor champions is probably going to feel like a failure for them. I'm not even confident they can be 3rd in constructors but that's probably their target at this point.

I'm just glad there's more parity this year but I'm really hoping we can get some more teams competing at the front and less in the mid-field/back.

That's the thing it is an engineering marvel despite it not working out. From the immense complexity of packaging everything that tight, to figuring out how to cool it all. It is an absolute marvel, and aero dynamacists agree on that notion.

It just sucks right now, whether due to the floor stalling or what people now believe to be a rear suspension defect. But that doesn't mean the revolutionary design is not impressive, because it's not easy to get everything packaged like that.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by F87source

That's the thing it is an engineering marvel despite it not working out. From the immense complexity of packaging everything that tight, to figuring out how to cool it all. It is an absolute marvel, and aero dynamacists agree on that notion.

It just sucks right now, whether due to the floor stalling or what people now believe to be a rear suspension defect. But that doesn't mean the revolutionary design is not impressive, because it's not easy to get everything packaged like that.

You and I have very different definitions of marvel. It does not achieve it's intended aerodynamic function as a package. It's a failure, thus far, regardless of how innovative the cooling or packaging may be. If it was a suitcase or an air conditioner then maybe I'd agree that it was a marvel.

I can't imagine there's a single aerodynamicist worth his salt that would call the new Mercedes, in its current state, anything more than reality trumping multi-variate complex fluid mechanic theory. The theory behind it may be impressive but if it doesn't work then it doesn't work. Every week some blogger comes up with a different reason as to why the car sucks. Remember when people made the case that the Mercedes PU isn't one of the problems? Lol. It's all cope at this point.

How many more races until we call a duck a duck? Remember the comments about McLaren past not meaning anything today? Welcome to McLaren's world Mercedes. It's absolutely pretentious and absurd to think Mercedes is the lord of aero when there's a grid full of teams with equal or superior capability. Redbull has the most advanced CFD software and Adrian Newey - etc etc... Surely these teams aren't all idiots for not implementing a bad design.

[Killed by Death]

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Marko has said Ferrari can't keep that pace up for the whole race with that jumping, it will take a toll on the car and driver and from practice so far Max was able to keep a tab on Lec.
Longrun analysis is that Max is just one tenth slower than Lec.

Yeah I know , and it looks terrible !

[NYG]

https://racingnews365.com/wolff-expl...o-solve-issues

On top of that, the development of the car is probably ruined thanks to sunk cost fallacy.

Summary of Toto: We can make the floor stiffer but we need to go back to square one so instead we think we can improve it in other ways.

[///M Power-Belgium]

*****

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Interesting what happens when MB can't pour millions or tens of millions into development.

hundreds of millions
Their annual budget in the heydays was about half a billion (for ferrari too btw)

But indeed now with the strickt budgetcaps the deck gets shuffled, especially with large rule changes that require different tech.
I think this is better as it requires teams to think creatively and efficiently instead of force redevelop things with large sums of money.