[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by geogerf

I know for some, this was just "in another part of the world" but real people died here guys.

This was my friend (the girl):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...e38_story.html

I had friends die in Orlando shooting and 9/11. Sorry for your loss.

[jgoens]

Originally Posted by geogerf

I know for some, this was just "in another part of the world" but real people died here guys.

This was my friend (the girl):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...e38_story.html

Sad. Condolences.

[Lups]

I hate country music. Honestly, it hurst my ears, brain and it goes against my will to have a pulse.


9/11 victims were people in two buildings. Just like the people who died here, they were chosen to die by an entity or a person. Since that day, security measures have been taken so why not here?

These people had country music in common. Those who died in 9/11 had a location in common. You made one harder to do again, so we all are cool with rock concert victims then? How about a symphony?

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by geogerf

I know for some, this was just "in another part of the world" but real people died here guys.

This was my friend (the girl):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...e38_story.html

Heartbreaking story.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Bet they're including illegal households. Notice they say %, don't define it. Also notice they don't say there's a growing number of households. If they used number of gun owners it would be an upward line.

[IMG]

View post on imgur.com

[/IMG]

Curious of the source. I realize it's hard to find accurate gun numbers because of the NRA and PACs limiting funding to gun studies but for every study showing increases, there certainly seem to be more showing decreases.

[img]http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/as...-story-top.jpg[/img]

[img]https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qim...b88fcc521520cc[/img]

[seedyrom]

In a time of #fakenews why would you believe any statistic or graph off the internet?
Who’s graph is correct?

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Curious of the source. I realize it's hard to find accurate gun numbers because of the NRA and PACs limiting funding to gun studies but for every study showing increases, there certainly seem to be more showing decreases.

[img]http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/as...-story-top.jpg[/img]

[img]https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qim...b88fcc521520cc[/img]

I explained before. They're twisting stats to fit their needs. The left is notorious for this. Example, when selling obamacare, let's include illegals to pump up the uninsured numbers. Democrats consider them immigrants right?

[Fundguy1]

Here's another one the left hates and ignores. Criminals don't follow laws. So passing laws doesnt stop them from getting guns. The laws only stop the good guys from getting them. Here's a nice chart showing how as carry permits increase, violent crime decreases. Why? Because guns stop crime. 2mm a year now in the US. And more guns carried by good guy means more crime foiled and criminals knowing they are less empowered with their guns and discouraged from committing the crime knowing the penalty could be much higher. This bears out where the highest crime areas typically have the highest gun restrictions. Increase penalties for gun crime to really lower it. Under Obama gun crime prosecutions were lightened and he gave out pardons to gun crime felons and the left didn't bat an eye. To them it's the piece of metal that's the criminal, not the hand that wields it.

[Kev312]

Originally Posted by Lups

I hate country music. Honestly, it hurst my ears, brain and it goes against my will to have a pulse.


9/11 victims were people in two buildings. Just like the people who died here, they were chosen to die by an entity or a person. Since that day, security measures have been taken so why not here?

These people had country music in common. Those who died in 9/11 had a location in common. You made one harder to do again, so we all are cool with rock concert victims then? How about a symphony?

Apologies if I'm misinterpreting, but additional security measures have been put in place via TSA (which has failed since I've accidentally brought knives in my carry on with no issue) after 9/11. There's no security measure that can be taken to secure a high vantage point to an assembly of people, whether directly or indirectly. However, there could have been better notice of this dudes 20+ rifles and ammunition being brought into a hotel, but I'd be under the guise it was at multiple points of time in concealed baggage.

There's no way to deter these types of events without covering every inch of society with bubble wrap. If someone were crazy enough, they could create a trebuchet that could launch an explosive into a crowded area. The best provisions we have as equal life on this earth is trying to instill and educate all walks of life, and mitigate failures in systems that can reduce the severity of these crimes.

The US is unique in it's gun laws. Outsiders can't say this or that should happen, because they haven't been surrounded by it. There is no easy solution, and saying "remove all guns, just tell people and they'll do it" is ridiculous. Normal gun homicides will remain the same, mostly gang on gang, with the exception of some an anomalies that hit the media like shit falling from the sky.

[Delta0311]

One thing that I find crazy is the way Western Europeans are approaching this event. You see tweets and even some on here talking about how we should ban firearms, and how crazy we are to allow private citizens to own guns. Meanwhile in Europe a crazed Jihadi killed 87 and wounded over 400 with nothing more than a truck and he did it in a few seconds. Yet their response to terror attacks is that it is "part and parcel of living in a big city".
Problem over there happens to be Islam and and it's ability to radicalize young Muslim men. Yet western European governments will not address that issue. Instead they will focus their energy on the secondary reaction; which happens to be the people who are sick and tired of their governments bending over backwards to Muslims. So when an attack happens in the US the response is to immediately ban guns. When an attack happens in Europe, which tends to be nearly always carried out by a Muslim. The reaction is to "call for unity and more tolerance", followed by going after those to speak negatively against Islam.

[Haywood]

Originally Posted by Delta0311

One thing that I find crazy is the way Western Europeans are approaching this event. You see tweets and even some on here talking about how we should ban firearms, and how crazy we are to allow private citizens to own guns. Meanwhile in Europe a crazed Jihadi killed 87 and wounded over 400 with nothing more than a truck and he did it in a few seconds. Yet their response to terror attacks is that it is "part and parcel of living in a big city".
Problem over there happens to be Islam and and it's ability to radicalize young Muslim men. Yet western European governments will not address that issue. Instead they will focus their energy on the secondary reaction; which happens to be the people who are sick and tired of their governments bending over backwards to Muslims. So when an attack happens in the US the response is to immediately ban guns. When an attack happens in Europe, which tends to be nearly always carried out by a Muslim. The reaction is to "call for unity and more tolerance", followed by going after those to speak negatively against Islam.

Brilliant. One of the best things I’ve read all day. This what I was trying to point out to our UK folks. Although this being a horrific event, we don’t hear about all the ones that were stopped. Same I sure goes for all the ISIS attacks in Europe that have been twarted. I don’t see us saying, well, you need to stop renting vehicles to any person who looks Muslim just as we can’t just say we’re going to ban all guns and stop selling them to old white guys now.

[insanecoder]

Our country has been through a civil war where high caliber shot tore through limbs and armies of tens of thousands faced off
Our country has been through World War 1 where machine-gun fire tore life and limb and choked on mustard gas where armies of hundreds of thousands faced off
Our country has been through World War 2 where whole cities disappeared within a week and armies of millions faced off

Now we going to allow a handful of terrorists (domestic or foreign) take away our rights and forego the 2nd amendment as well?

COME ON

NEVER

[seedyrom]

You should try a different approach. The current one doesn’t appear to be netting any gains

[1MOREMOD]

We are if we get every mericun a rifle this wouldn't happen

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Kev312

Apologies if I'm misinterpreting, but additional security measures have been put in place via TSA (which has failed since I've accidentally brought knives in my carry on with no issue) after 9/11. There's no security measure that can be taken to secure a high vantage point to an assembly of people, whether directly or indirectly. However, there could have been better notice of this dudes 20+ rifles and ammunition being brought into a hotel, but I'd be under the guise it was at multiple points of time in concealed baggage.

There's no way to deter these types of events without covering every inch of society with bubble wrap. If someone were crazy enough, they could create a trebuchet that could launch an explosive into a crowded area. The best provisions we have as equal life on this earth is trying to instill and educate all walks of life, and mitigate failures in systems that can reduce the severity of these crimes.

The US is unique in it's gun laws. Outsiders can't say this or that should happen, because they haven't been surrounded by it. There is no easy solution, and saying "remove all guns, just tell people and they'll do it" is ridiculous. Normal gun homicides will remain the same, mostly gang on gang, with the exception of some an anomalies that hit the media like shit falling from the sky.

That's my point, you went at it immediately. Improvements to flight safety were done straight away, but you still fly. We all hate the new safety measures yet we comply because not having those gave us all the memory of 911. Why can't anything be done with guns when more people die because of them than in that horrible strike.

You're right, the culture towards guns is completely different there. It would be as easy to import your ways to here as it is to export ours there. Yo most of you it's weird how i haven't had a home key for 15 years and I've never been robbed where as to me it's weird that anyone would shoot someone for stuff or a car.

[Samurai of 2day]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Here's another one the left hates and ignores. Criminals don't follow laws. So passing laws doesnt stop them from getting guns. The laws only stop the good guys from getting them. Here's a nice chart showing how as carry permits increase, violent crime decreases. Why? Because guns stop crime. 2mm a year now in the US. And more guns carried by good guy means more crime foiled and criminals knowing they are less empowered with their guns and discouraged from committing the crime knowing the penalty could be much higher. This bears out where the highest crime areas typically have the highest gun restrictions. Increase penalties for gun crime to really lower it. Under Obama gun crime prosecutions were lightened and he gave out pardons to gun crime felons and the left didn't bat an eye. To them it's the piece of metal that's the criminal, not the hand that wields it.

Agreed. I've been saying this for years as well.

It doesn't matter how strict the gun laws put into effect are, criminals will still break those laws.

Criminals/terrorists will just have more opportunities to attack soft targets while law abiding citizens will continue to be victims because the ability to protect themselves would be restricted by those laws.

I believe that one thing that can help prevent regulate gun control is a standardized training program and capability/privilege reassessment system implemented by the government, similar to driver's license and vehicle inspection/registration and ownership.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Samurai of 2day

Agreed. I've been saying this for years as well.

It doesn't matter how strict the gun laws put into effect are, criminals will still break those laws.

Criminals/terrorists will just have more opportunities to attack soft targets while law abiding citizens will continue to be victims because the ability to protect themselves would be restricted by those laws.

I believe that one thing that can help prevent regulate gun control is a standardized training program and capability/privilege reassessment system implemented by the government, similar to driver's license and vehicle inspection/registration and ownership.

They used to do this in high schools. Had shooting teams even, until the 70s. But the antivietnam war hippies killed these. Now that generation is the one yelling for gun control and teaching this to their snowflake kids.

It was popular in the late 40s thru early 60s and was done for the same reason as phys ed. To get Americans physically strong and better shots in case of war. Now we are even phasing out gym. Sad.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

They used to do this in high schools. Had shooting teams even, until the 70s. But the antivietnam war hippies killed these. Now that generation is the one yelling for gun control and teaching this to their snowflake kids.

It was popular in the late 40s thru early 60s and was done for the same reason as phys ed. To get Americans physically strong and better shots in case of war. Now we are even phasing out gym. Sad.

Don't want to hurt the fat kids feelings? Is this true? That would make me very sad indeed.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Samurai of 2day

Agreed. I've been saying this for years as well.

It doesn't matter how strict the gun laws put into effect are, criminals will still break those laws.

Criminals/terrorists will just have more opportunities to attack soft targets while law abiding citizens will continue to be victims because the ability to protect themselves would be restricted by those laws.

I believe that one thing that can help prevent regulate gun control is a standardized training program and capability/privilege reassessment system implemented by the government, similar to driver's license and vehicle inspection/registration and ownership.

I know what you mean by standardized training and licensing. But I would cringe if it's done in a similar fashion as our "wonderful" driver's license program. I remember a Married with Children Episode where Al had to go through the whole process to get his driver's license back. There were so many truths in that skit which were all not very PC. Such as when the DMV worker asked which language he wanted to take the written test in. Al barks, "Well of course...American." And the DMV worker says, "Oh yes, here's the Spanish test." Then another part of the skit showed all manners of misfits being able to get their license...some kid in elementary school....a blind guy with a seeing eye dog....

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by Haywood

Brilliant. One of the best things I’ve read all day. This what I was trying to point out to our UK folks.

Don't tar us all UK folk with the same brush, although I suspect I'm in a minority of 1 on here in that, I am one of the tiny 0.25% of the UK population with a UK Firearms license as well as having an understanding of the issues in the USA in respect of firearms due to the amount of visits made to the USA over the years.
Doesn't mean to say I don't think improvements couldn't be made to your system, but equally I understand why it's not as 'simple' as people over here think it is or should be.

Heart goes out to all affected by this awful event though, and I was worried about a US friend of mine who I knew was in Vegas for a few days, but fortunately it turned out was down the other end of the strip at the time.

[Samurai of 2day]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

I know what you mean by standardized training and licensing. But I would cringe if it's done in a similar fashion as our "wonderful" driver's license program. I remember a Married with Children Episode where Al had to go through the whole process to get his driver's license back. There were so many truths in that skit which were all not very PC. Such as when the DMV worker asked which language he wanted to take the written test in. Al barks, "Well of course...American." And the DMV worker says, "Oh yes, here's the Spanish test." Then another part of the skit showed all manners of misfits being able to get their license...some kid in elementary school....a blind guy with a seeing eye dog....

Lol!!

Al Bundy is a life long inspiration of mine, lol.

I remember that episode, and agree 100% The DMV process sucks (recently there registering a new bike)... that system definitely needs a overhaul.

No system is perfect, but I think the most people would rather suffer through those pains other than giving up the option of available weapons for recreation or protection entirely because of laws implemented due to unfortunate events.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

Don't want to hurt the fat kids feelings? Is this true? That would make me very sad indeed.

Yes. And before Columbine it was common for seniors who drove to school to have a rifle rack with shotguns in the back window of their pickup in the school parking lot. My school, 450 kids per grade, would have a dozen or so in the lot every day. And this is in North NJ in the mid 80s, 40 min from NYC, not some backwoods. Guess what, no problems.