Subaru BRZ Concept STI - Amazing!!!

GoingTooFast · 12-19-2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stefan

Good point.. I just think they will not be going the S/C due to corporate image (emissions, fuel consumption, etc.) Might be a popular aftermarket mod though!!

That's what I'm afraid of...

If emissions and fuel consumption are the primary goals I think the only way for them to use a supercharger - remember Toyota already uses it in several applications, mainly through its TRD division, so no arm done to the corporate image - is to also use an intercooler... and here we are back again to the available space issues for the intercooler.

So, in the end you may be right and the only option for a supercharger is a front-mounted IC radiator (just like in the Audi)... the question is:

Is there enough room available in the engine bay for the intercooler radiator?

Red Bread · 12-19-2011, 11:44 AM

Most good STI power gains are done by ditching the TMIC and switching to a FMIC with more capacity. I'd think that this car will likely use a FMIC for either turbo or supercharging. I still wouldn't be surprised to see Toyota use a supercharger and Subie use a turbo.

GoingTooFast · 12-19-2011, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Most good STI power gains are done by ditching the TMIC and switching to a FMIC with more capacity. I'd think that this car will likely use a FMIC for either turbo or supercharging. I still wouldn't be surprised to see Toyota use a supercharger and Subie use a turbo.

From a corporate image perspective it does make sense... STI is associated to turbos and TRD to superchargers.

From a pure financial perspective I'm not so sure about that. Don't forget that the supercharged TRD GT86 would be much better than the turbo BRZ STI.

This is a driver's car above everything else.

GoingTooFast · 12-21-2011, 09:14 AM

stefan · 12-21-2011, 09:43 AM

^^ leaving hand on shift lever = credibility killed.

GoingTooFast · 12-22-2011, 09:21 AM

Toyota GT 86 TRD Revealed...

Red Bread · 12-22-2011, 10:19 AM

Damn! That looks much better. I originally didn't see the E86 M Coupe similarities, but now they're hard to miss. Of course the E86 was a copy of earlier Datsuns, so I guess it's just the Japanese stealing their design back.

kyleb350 · 12-22-2011, 10:50 AM

^^Now that is nice

jaf89f · 12-22-2011, 02:50 PM

"According to one report, Toyota is also prepping a TRD supercharger for the 2.0-liter engine." - From the short article posted by GoingToFast

That will be awesome, wonder how long it will be after the first model is up for sale that the TRD version with supercharger will be out.

antoine@lutzperformance · 12-22-2011, 03:00 PM

things sick!

GoingTooFast · 12-23-2011, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaf89f

"According to one report, Toyota is also prepping a TRD supercharger for the 2.0-liter engine." - From the short article posted by GoingToFast

That will be awesome, wonder how long it will be after the first model is up for sale that the TRD version with supercharger will be out.

The Toyobaru's engine (4U-GSE and FA20 are Toyota and Subaru's monikers, respectively) has a high compression ratio at 12.5:1 which could potentially present a problem to non-intercooled supercharging. However, the ESS Tuning Stage I SuperCharger kit for the E92 M3 is a very good example of how it can be done without any problems. In fact, the S65 V8 engine from BMW has also a high compression ratio at 12.0:1, and yet, even without intercooling it manages to deliver (on stock internals):

Horsepower on 91AKI/95RON: 535 SAE (30% gain over stock)
Horsepower on 93AKI/98RON: 550 SAE (33% gain over stock)
Torque on 91AKI/95RON: 370ft/lbs
Torque on 93AKI/98RON: 380ft/lbs

with a boost pressure of ONLY 5 PSI (0.3 bar)!

In the Toyobaru, 30-33% power gain over stock translates into 256 - 262hp! So, it means that using a boost pressure in the vicinity of 5.0 - 5.5psi the Toyobaru can do it away with the need for an intercooler and all the associated pipework, hence all the space constraints!!!

Just to give you a taste of the thing (ESS Tuning Stage II E92 M3 SuperCharger kit w/ intercooler, boost pressure @ 6.5psi)...

ESS Tuning Stage I E92 M3 SuperCharger kit w/o intercooler, boost pressure @ 5psi:

GoingTooFast · 12-23-2011, 11:31 AM

^^ This supercharger is a Vortech V-3SI centrifugal type supercharger (which is different from Eaton's roots type superchargers):

M3WC · 12-23-2011, 12:03 PM

If Toyota uses a supercharger that is another huge fail. Just like the Scion badge in the US.

M3Bahn · 12-23-2011, 12:14 PM

These cars are the best thing that has happened in the sports car market since the 240z.

Crimson92 · 12-23-2011, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC

If Toyota uses a supercharger that is another huge fail. Just like the Scion badge in the US.

care to explain why?

GoingTooFast · 12-25-2011, 03:48 PM

The Toyota Sports 800 was the first and up until now the only rwd boxer engined (0.8 liter 2-cylinder, 580kg curb weight

) Toyota . That's the Toyobaru heritage:

GoingTooFast · 12-26-2011, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAPSGOD

In this picture it looks alright. The roof is a nice touch for a sub-$30k car. Too bad a bunch of spoiled high school kids will wrap this around a pole while trying to drift across an intersection.

Are you saying that this car should have a higher price tag, so only SOME spoiled high school kids, that otherwise will be driving a 340hp 1M or any of the more powerful daddy's cars, will 'wrap this around a pole while trying to drift across an intersection'?!

Do you really beleive in 'with greater power and price tag comes greater responsability' theory as far as 'spoiled high school' kids is concerned?!

GoingTooFast · 12-26-2011, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAPSGOD

No, I'm saying it's a shame that will happen. Calm down bro

What makes you say that I'm not calm?!

I just don't understand why do you say it will happen in a different fashion from, say, a 335d?!

It won't!

M3_WC · 12-26-2011, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

I just don't understand why do you say it will happen in a different fashion from, say, a 335d?!

It won't!

Because there will be many many many more teenagers driving this Scion vs a 335d, 1M, etc.

GoingTooFast · 12-26-2011, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3_WC

Because there will be many many many more teenagers driving this Scion vs a 335d, 1M, etc.

I don't remember the Miata being EVER considered a dangerous car in the hands of 'spoiled high school' kids. In fact, it was a tremendous sales success.

So please, try to keep it down to earth!

GoingTooFast · 12-26-2011, 03:00 PM

The 1M will be a WAY more dangerous in the hands of 'spoiled high school' kids than the Toyobaru will ever be!

Year's_End · 12-26-2011, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

I don't remember the Miata being EVER considered a dangerous car in the hands of 'spoiled high school' kids. In fact, it was a tremendous sales success.

So please, try to keep it down to earth!

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

The 1M will be a WAY more dangerous in the hands of 'spoiled high school' kids than the Toyobaru will ever be!

You're so adamant ITT lol

12-19-2011, 11:44 AM	#266
Red Bread Major General 4459 Rep 9,160 Posts Drives: Smog machines Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (0)	Most good STI power gains are done by ditching the TMIC and switching to a FMIC with more capacity. I'd think that this car will likely use a FMIC for either turbo or supercharging. I still wouldn't be surprised to see Toyota use a supercharger and Subie use a turbo.
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12-21-2011, 09:14 AM	#268
GoingTooFast Banned 89 Rep 1,247 Posts Drives: fat cars are still boats Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up. iTrader: (0)
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12-21-2011, 09:43 AM	#269
stefan Brigadier General 2376 Rep 4,258 Posts Drives: M2 Comp Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: North iTrader: (2)	^^ leaving hand on shift lever = credibility killed. __________________ ///M Power
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12-22-2011, 09:21 AM	#270
GoingTooFast Banned 89 Rep 1,247 Posts Drives: fat cars are still boats Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up. iTrader: (0)	Toyota GT 86 TRD Revealed...
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12-22-2011, 10:19 AM	#271
Red Bread Major General 4459 Rep 9,160 Posts Drives: Smog machines Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (0)	Damn! That looks much better. I originally didn't see the E86 M Coupe similarities, but now they're hard to miss. Of course the E86 was a copy of earlier Datsuns, so I guess it's just the Japanese stealing their design back.
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12-22-2011, 10:50 AM	#272
kyleb350 Brigadier General 429 Rep 4,709 Posts Drives: '21 X3MC Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Milwaukee iTrader: (6)	^^Now that is nice
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12-22-2011, 02:50 PM	#273
jaf89f Second Lieutenant 38 Rep 283 Posts Drives: 2008 128i Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO iTrader: (0)	"According to one report, Toyota is also prepping a TRD supercharger for the 2.0-liter engine." - From the short article posted by GoingToFast That will be awesome, wonder how long it will be after the first model is up for sale that the TRD version with supercharger will be out.
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12-22-2011, 03:00 PM	#274
antoine@lutzperformance Registered 1 Rep 3 Posts Drives: BMW 135i 2009 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Tampa, FL iTrader: (0)	things sick!
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12-23-2011, 11:31 AM	#276
GoingTooFast Banned 89 Rep 1,247 Posts Drives: fat cars are still boats Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up. iTrader: (0)	^^ This supercharger is a Vortech V-3SI centrifugal type supercharger (which is different from Eaton's roots type superchargers):
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12-23-2011, 12:03 PM	#277
M3WC Brigadier General 3857 Rep 3,317 Posts Drives: BMW Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: ...location...location iTrader: (0)	If Toyota uses a supercharger that is another huge fail. Just like the Scion badge in the US.
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12-23-2011, 12:14 PM	#278
M3Bahn Lieutenant 335 Rep 483 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: ATL iTrader: (0)	These cars are the best thing that has happened in the sports car market since the 240z. __________________ The journey is the reward.
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12-25-2011, 03:48 PM	#280
GoingTooFast Banned 89 Rep 1,247 Posts Drives: fat cars are still boats Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up. iTrader: (0)	The Toyota Sports 800 was the first and up until now the only rwd boxer engined (0.8 liter 2-cylinder, 580kg curb weight ) Toyota . That's the Toyobaru heritage:
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12-26-2011, 03:00 PM	#285
GoingTooFast Banned 89 Rep 1,247 Posts Drives: fat cars are still boats Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up. iTrader: (0)	The 1M will be a WAY more dangerous in the hands of 'spoiled high school' kids than the Toyobaru will ever be!
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