[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I just bought an ICE miata, my sister in law just bought a massive gas guzzling suv. So clearly there are no laws in place to force anyone to buy an EV. So what is your point?

Well, just in case you're new to the thread it seems that governments all over the place are going to ban the sale of ICE vehicles in the next few years.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Well, just in case you're new to the thread it seems that governments all over the place are going to ban the sale of ICE vehicles in the next few years.

Governments say they are going to do all kinds of nonsense. Let me know when an actual ban happens. How many administrations will have come and gone between now and 2035???

Shit probably more likely we'll be living in a post nuclear apocalypse by 2035. Or I might just finally be voted ruler of the universe and you all will be forced to drive miatas with the top down rain or shine.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Governments say they are going to do all kinds of nonsense. Let me know when an actual ban happens. How many administrations will have come and gone between now and 2035???

Shit probably more likely we'll be living in a post nuclear apocalypse by 2035. Or I might just finally be voted ruler of the universe and you all will be forced to drive miatas with the top down rain or shine.

Yes, governments are full of shit. But given the push I'd say a lot of folks are concerned about the government shit, and it's the topic of discussion on this thread. Quite a few folks here, including me have been punching holes in the idea but it is a discussion just the same.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Yes, governments are full of shit. But given the push I'd say a lot of folks are concerned about the government shit, and it's the topic of discussion on this thread. Quite a few folks here, including me have been punching holes in the idea but it is a discussion just the same.

The topic of the thread WAS "Still want an EV?" at some point in became lets just bitch over and over about some possible, proposed, EV mandates a decade from now. It's basically been that now for who knows how long. Every now and then someone comes along and tries to change the topic but the current administration in here will have none of that.

I was just responding to the idea that no one is buying EVs if it wasn't for the incentives. I just stated I bought one with no incentives just because I think it's a better product. So have many people given the fact that Tesla hasn't had any tax rebates for a while up until this year and yet they were setting sales records all the time. And even though I think it's superior to ICE for a LOT of people... I don't think it should be mandated and I don't think it will.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

The topic of the thread WAS "Still want an EV?" at some point in became lets just bitch over and over about some possible, proposed, EV mandates a decade from now. It's basically been that now for who knows how long. Every now and then someone comes along and tries to change the topic but the current administration in here will have none of that.

I was just responding to the idea that no one is buying EVs if it wasn't for the incentives. I just stated I bought one with no incentives just because I think it's a better product. So have many people given the fact that Tesla hasn't had any tax rebates for a while up until this year and yet they were setting sales records all the time. And even though I think it's superior to ICE for a LOT of people... I don't think it should be mandated and I don't think it will.

I don't disagree, I think if there were no incentives/rebates then sales would be pretty low. I guess time will tell.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I just bought an ICE miata, my sister in law just bought a massive gas guzzling suv. So clearly there are no laws in place to force anyone to buy an EV. So what is your point?

And I just bought an ICE ORV (that returned 24 MPG last tank). But there are laws in place re: California and possibly 18 other states if they keep true to Cali's emissions standards. And the current Administration's EPA proposed emissions standards, which may come before Cali's 2035 ICE ban. And with the last several administration's propensities to just enact Executive Orders (like declaring a "climate emergency " - which has been threatened by the current Executive Branch), emissions standards could be changed overnight.

But again, the early 2000's era EV tax incentives were sunset at the end of GFY 2020 until the 2022 Inflation Reduction Act reestablished the incentives. When you bought your Tesla it was during the time Tesla long ran out of slots, or you bought your EV used. The current law now allows a 1-time secondary tax credit for buying used EV. That was never in the original incentives program. So, sorry, there are incentives in place now to buy EV. If EV was that great of a product incentives to purchase them would not be necessary as same for the planned ICE ban in 2035.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

I don't disagree, I think if there were no incentives/rebates then sales would be pretty low. I guess time will tell.

That's my point. It's not true. At least not for Tesla from the data I have seen. Their rebates started getting cut in 2019 and were completely gone by 2020 yet they set sales records every year even though they had no tax credits. The data I have seen indicates this year might end up being lower than last year when they had no incentives. Of course inflation and all rest of it I'm sure plays a role, but if incentives were the primary motivating factor in people buying a Tesla vs an ICE then between 2019-2022 sales should have declined and they only increased.

As an ex-ev hater I think the reason they don't sell more is because of false range anxiety fears and political/social stigma associated with them. My guess is if anyone who is a candidate for an EV (has a home with garage or somewhere to charge it) was given an EV to use for a few weeks... I think the majority of them would be converts.

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

Do teslas not need tires?

Yes they do. The discussion above was that $2000 in maintenance on a Camry was called “utter nonsense”. It’s not. 60,000 miles in an ICE vehicle can incur significant maintenance cost. My experience is that electrics are less due to less fluid reservoirs in general. The tires are generally more, but not always.


It was just a discussion point.

Shawn

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Yes they do. The discussion above was that $2000 in maintenance on a Camry was called “utter nonsense”. It’s not. 60,000 miles in an ICE vehicle can incur significant maintenance cost. My experience is that electrics are less due to less fluid reservoirs in general. The tires are generally more, but not always.


It was just a discussion point.

Shawn

You brought up the Camry as the comparison vehicle. As I stated, per Toyota's website the Camry requires 10,000-mile OCI and 3 cabin filters at 1 engine air filter. So that's 6 oil changes and $400 in air filters non-DIY. No way that adds to $2,000. And chatboy's 45% depreciation seems a bit over estimated for the Camry. Tires and insurance costs have no bearing on comparing ICE vs. EV maintenance costs. Taking tire and insurance costs out of the calculations HELPS the Tesla's case; I'd bet my next paycheck a Model 3 eats more-expensive tires faster than a Camry SE. And the Tesla costs more to insure.

[MTrumbo3]

Originally Posted by P1

Guy I know has an e-tron. He lives in an apartment complex and he can't charge it there. So he has to spend his Saturday driving to the library to charge it there for a few hours.

"But it's OK, I just go out and get some lunch"

What a waste of time.

useless

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

...And the Tesla costs more to insure.

A lot more.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by M3WC

A lot more.

Now that I did not know. How much more and why does it cost more? I mean let’s face it these M cars cost quite a bit also. But if you’re comparing a Tesla to a Honda Civic, I’d like to know why it cost more to insure a model 3 over a civic. And how much more.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

That's my point. It's not true. At least not for Tesla from the data I have seen. Their rebates started getting cut in 2019 and were completely gone by 2020 yet they set sales records every year even though they had no tax credits. The data I have seen indicates this year might end up being lower than last year when they had no incentives. Of course inflation and all rest of it I'm sure plays a role, but if incentives were the primary motivating factor in people buying a Tesla vs an ICE then between 2019-2022 sales should have declined and they only increased.

As an ex-ev hater I think the reason they don't sell more is because of false range anxiety fears and political/social stigma associated with them. My guess is if anyone who is a candidate for an EV (has a home with garage or somewhere to charge it) was given an EV to use for a few weeks... I think the majority of them would be converts.

When Tesla's rebate allocations ran out at 200,000 units sold, it basically cut the price of its vehicles to match the -$7,500 tax rebate. That move was actually better for the consumer because it lowered the price of the loan costs by needing to finance less of the retail price. When there was the Government tax rebate, that -$7,500 was a reduction in a customer's tax burden (if he qualified for the rebate), so unless the customer put $7,500 or more as a down payment the loan was a higher amount, because receipt of the tax rebate was a post-sale activity.

Essentially the tax rebate never helped the lower income customer to buy an EV that theoretically is less expensive to own because of the lower energy consumption EVs offer. The new tax rebate law allows the $7,500 (max) to be applied at the time of sale, which effectively lowers the purchase price and therefore loan costs, but no one has yet figured out how to implement it.

I've made that argument years ago on on other EV threads here on E90 post that the original tax rebate law was actually a roadblock to EV purchase because it never lowered the purchase price of EV for lower income consumers. It really just helped higher income consumers come April tax time if they owed the Feds more than $7,500 in taxes.

And states still offered incentives beyond the Feds of which people still take advantage.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Anti eve vee ists have no answer!

This only gets better from here. Excuses will soon be no more lmaoooo

Time is on our side ev fans!!!

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Governments say they are going to do all kinds of nonsense. Let me know when an actual ban happens. How many administrations will have come and gone between now and 2035???

Shit probably more likely we'll be living in a post nuclear apocalypse by 2035. Or I might just finally be voted ruler of the universe and you all will be forced to drive miatas with the top down rain or shine.

4

[freakystyly]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Now that I did not know. How much more and why does it cost more? I mean let’s face it these M cars cost quite a bit also. But if you’re comparing a Tesla to a Honda Civic, I’d like to know why it cost more to insure a model 3 over a civic. And how much more.

It's repair and replacement costs associated with bodywork, sensors, and other knickknacks that make logical sense VS a common civic. The Tesla after sale supply chain took a while to actually develop, it may be better now but it wasn't when the insurance people decided on things.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Now that I did not know. How much more and why does it cost more? I mean let’s face it these M cars cost quite a bit also. But if you’re comparing a Tesla to a Honda Civic, I’d like to know why it cost more to insure a model 3 over a civic. And how much more.

Not a Tesla but a Rivian:

Go to the 3:11 mark and Rich goes over what seems to be a minor fender bender repair which is going to run him (or really his insurance company) just north of $37k to fix. He also mentions another Rivian video that has what appears to be less damage than his and that repair is at $42k.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Not a Tesla but a Rivian:

Go to the 3:11 mark and Rich goes over what seems to be a minor fender bender repair which is going to run him (or really his insurance company) just north of $37k to fix. He also mentions another Rivian video that has what appears to be less damage than his and that repair is at $42k.

That's getting close to "write off" territory.

[gonzo]

Deserves it for wearing Crocs.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by shawnhayes

Yes they do. The discussion above was that $2000 in maintenance on a Camry was called “utter nonsense”. It’s not. 60,000 miles in an ICE vehicle can incur significant maintenance cost. My experience is that electrics are less due to less fluid reservoirs in general. The tires are generally more, but not always.


It was just a discussion point.

Shawn

sure $2k if youre including $600-800 in camry OE tires. But then you need to include the $1k in Tesla OE tires. (Prices per Discount Tire for OE Tires)

[BGM-M3COMP]

turtles!

[shawnhayes]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

sure $2k if youre including $600-800 in camry OE tires. But then you need to include the $1k in Tesla OE tires. (Prices per Discount Tire for OE Tires)

Of course. But the idea that "tires don't count toward maintenance costs" is ludicrous. The Camry tires MAY be cheaper (not always, have to price them). This analysis included all services. I include everything, but depreciation isn't really important to me, cause I don't let them go much. But I don't exclude that from any analysis just because its convenient for my argument.

Shawn