[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Thats a great post...I've quoted the above in particular as its quite interesting.

So i've sometimes wondered why Red Bull have persevered with their high rake philosophy...there must be benefits for Newey to stick with it.

Then while recently reading up on Red Bulls flexible front wing controversy, one of the regulations that was "broken" by their wing design was the minimum front wing ground clearance.
So it occurred to me how else could Red Bull get round that particular regulation and keep the aero benefits of reduced drag at high speeds that their flexi wings gave.
So....with a high rake car design, assuming you run a stiff front suspension for best grip and turn in and a softer rear suspension for best traction...then at high speed if the rear of the car is slightly pushed down while the front of the car remains stable you will have in effect reduced the angle that both the front and rear wing present to the airflow.
Even a small effective reduction in wing angles would still produce a reduction in aero drag and thus a benefit to top speed.

Thanks!

High praise coming from you. I simply can't understand the benefit they gain with high rake, unless it's as you state...they are gaining a straight line advantage, since rotation has been solved by both the W11 and the W10...both low rake designs.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by racerbruce

Well said MK,
The observation regarding the RBR's higher rake makes complete sense. And your comment re Newey's lack of results to deliver his expected aero-magic is spot-on.

Thank you, sir.

Again, high praise coming from you!

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

Yes you know they are. In F1 you have to PROVE your car is legal, not have the FIA prove it is illegal. The Merc has been proven legal time and time again.

I would be satisfied if an outside consortium of independent inspectors,seperate from FIA working in conjunction with them but deciding separately without interference from FIA decide for themselves if the 11 and indeed all other cars are deemed to be what they are being proven to be,rule friendly,only way to be sure.
Now state your objections and doubts.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

Yes you know they are. In F1 you have to PROVE your car is legal, not have the FIA prove it is illegal. The Merc has been proven legal time and time again.

With a lot of advantages .Which other teams don't have ... Approved by the FIA or not , It doesn't matter because they win all the races with the advantages of the car anyway .
And that...."THAT" makes the MERC W11 the fastest car of the decade .
The W11 is actually unbeatable and very reliable, that's what we could see in the last seasons..
Even a grandma-driver like Bottas can win races with the W11's "warp-speed-cruise-control" !
At least "IF" he is allowed to win the race ...
The W11 is the ultimate dream machine for every F1 driver in a seat ! SEB said : I would drive for free to get a W11 seat..

My statement is also PROVE and should be part to make your statement complete .

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

I would be satisfied if an outside consortium of independent inspectors,seperate from FIA working in conjunction with them but deciding separately without interference from FIA decide for themselves if the 11 and indeed all other cars are deemed to be what they are being proven to be,rule friendly,only way to be sure.
Now state your objections and doubts.

Yeah my friend inspectors...

Last year in the '19 season the FIA president Jean Todt was 100% aware of the cheating Ferrari-Jet-Mode !

Finally by the complains from the other teams , The FIA HAD TO DO "SOMETHING" about the whole situation
.
The "SOMETHING" was an internal agreement to remove the Ferrari's 5H1T !

Ferrari was never punished or fined . The Ferrari drivers ranking , victories , podiums and team rankings were NEVER deleted !
I really wonder how the rest of FIA-Clowns could be agreed with that ?

The Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA in English: "International Automobile Federation" is an association established on 20 June 1904 to represent the interests of motoring organisations and motor car users. To the general public, the FIA is mostly known as the governing body for many auto racing events, such as the well known Formula One.
The FIA :
Headquartered at 8 Place de la Concorde, Paris, the FIA consists of 246 member organisations in 145 countries worldwide. Its current president is Jean Todt the master clown !

In other words ,there is an organisation of 246 clowns who were aware of the whole '2019 Ferrari cheating !?!?
In other words : The whole FIA organisation is cheating as well !
The today's FIA should be fired ASAP ! All the clowns of the F* circus !

The saying F1 inventions ,approved by the FIA .I wouldn't trust the FIA for one second ...

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Yeah my friend inspectors...

Last year in the '19 season the FIA president Jean Todt was 100% aware of the cheating Ferrari-Jet-Mode !

Finally by the complains from the other teams , The FIA HAD TO DO "SOMETHING" about the whole situation
.
The "SOMETHING" was an internal agreement to remove the Ferrari's 5H1T !

Ferrari was never punished or fined . The Ferrari drivers ranking , victories , podiums and team rankings were NEVER deleted !
I really wonder how the rest of FIA-Clowns could be agreed with that ?

The Fédération Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA in English: "International Automobile Federation" is an association established on 20 June 1904 to represent the interests of motoring organisations and motor car users. To the general public, the FIA is mostly known as the governing body for many auto racing events, such as the well known Formula One.
The FIA :
Headquartered at 8 Place de la Concorde, Paris, the FIA consists of 246 member organisations in 145 countries worldwide. Its current president is Jean Todt the master clown !

In other words ,there is an organisation of 246 clowns who were aware of the whole '2019 Ferrari cheating !?!?
In other words : The whole FIA organisation is cheating as well !
The today's FIA should be fired ASAP ! All the clowns of the F* circus !

The saying F1 inventions ,approved by the FIA .I wouldn't trust the FIA for one second ...

Binotto was kneeling begging them not to make it public..as you can imagine possibly a hefty secret fine may have done the trick for them.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

With a lot of advantages .Which other teams don't have ... Approved by the FIA or not , It doesn't matter because they win all the races with the advantages of the car anyway .
And that...."THAT" makes the MERC W11 the fastest car of the decade .
The W11 is actually unbeatable and very reliable, that's what we could see in the last seasons..
Even a grandma-driver like Bottas can win races with the W11's "warp-speed-cruise-control" !
At least "IF" he is allowed to win the race ...
The W11 is the ultimate dream machine for every F1 driver in a seat ! SEB said : I would drive for free to get a W11 seat..

My statement is also PROVE and should be part to make your statement complete .

No driver wins the WDC without advantages. Reliability, aero, suspension AND driver. Mercedes W11 has them all. But it is still not more dominant than the MP4/4 which lost a single race. Nothing else comes close.

And again, the assertion that BOT isn't allowed to win races. This is where you lose credibility, my friend. BOT doesn't win races because he is teamed with HAM. No one wins overall against HAM. Never has happened, never will happen. BUT and ROS each got a season off him in separately unique circumstances but I highly doubt that Lewis will ever be beaten by a teammate again, especially after the ROS debacle.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

Binotto was kneeling begging them not to make it public..as you can imagine possibly a hefty secret fine may have done the trick for them.

I find it also really remarkable that LeCrash and SEB never mentioned one single word about the Ferrari-Jet-Mode .

Honestly .I don't understand why ?

They were faster than HAM the GOAT ! It must have been their driver skills..

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I find it also really remarkable that LeCrash and SEB never mentioned one single word about the Ferrari-Jet-Mode .

Honestly .I don't understand why ?

They were faster than HAM the GOAT ! It must have been their driver skills..

Isn't it a bit like BOT who was told to keep his cake hole shut about the das oh what joy F1 is my friend.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

No driver wins the WDC without advantages. Reliability, aero, suspension AND driver. Mercedes W11 has them all. But it is still not more dominant than the MP4/4 which lost a single race. Nothing else comes close.

And again, the assertion that BOT isn't allowed to win races. This is where you lose credibility, my friend. BOT doesn't win races because he is teamed with HAM. No one wins overall against HAM. Never has happened, never will happen. BUT and ROS each got a season off him in separately unique circumstances but I highly doubt that Lewis will ever be beaten by a teammate again, especially after the ROS debacle.

That's for sure my friend . That's why Toto said : I'll do anything to avoid another "Star Wars"
With MAX on our side : It would be the "War Of The Worlds"

Cruising with warp-speed to non-stop victories is always been easier !

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

That's for sure my friend . That's why Toto said : I'll do anything to avoid another "Star Wars"
With MAX on our side : It would be the "War Of The Worlds"

Cruising with warp-speed to non-stop victories is always been easier !

Max would be HAM's worst nightmare in the W12 and it's what is badly needed for '22,for the fans and to save F1.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

The W11 is the ultimate dream machine for every F1 driver in a seat ! SEB said : I would drive for free to get a W11 seat..

It would be funny for them call Seb's bluff and see if he really would do it for a season.

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I find it also really remarkable that LeCrash and SEB never mentioned one single word about the Ferrari-Jet-Mode .

Honestly .I don't understand why ?

They were faster than HAM the GOAT ! It must have been their driver skills..

Only on the straights though, even then they still lost the WDC and constructors championship. MB is better at cheating.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by minn19

Only on the straights though, even then they still lost the WDC and constructors championship. MB is better at cheating.

Of course the Ferrari's ran suddenly slower at the Circuit of The Americas ..
And that ...That was really strange !

The FIA clowns are ridiculous !

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Fair enough.
Myself I think there are certain metrics and comparisons that give a pretty good indication of where any particular certain driver sits in the overall rating of modern F1 drivers.
But sure no one can be 100% certain.
I ask about the 2007 season (which you obviously didn't see) because it was the most outstanding rookie season of any driver pretty much in the history of F1...not because of the car but because of who Hamiltons was up against in the other car.

That's really irrelevant and a bit of a petty and silly condescending shot, and who cares, really? Fact of the matter is that there are too many variables, period.

You guys are just speculating and not being objective. If everything can be averaged out and 'reasoned' away, why do the manufacturers bother spending $$$ on developments trying to get a leg up on the competition?

Anyway, I don't need to be part of this silly circle jerk as many of you only have opinions and aren't stating facts. There is really only 1 way to find out. Wake me up if they (whoever thinks they are the best) agree to it.

EDIT: and another thing, you could put a complete dweeb in one car and have the 'best driver' in another and if the rest of the field conspire to box the latter in, what can he do? Cars spin out, have accidents, strategies, poor patch, oil slick on the road, bad judgement, etc etc etc, and this is all in addition to the myriad of other factors I've only touched on its surface in my OP yet many of you still think you can compartmentalize all of them and determine maybe not w 100% certainty but perhaps 90%, 80%, what? I guess you can decide that Mercedes is X% better than Ferrari and so on, etc? LOL gimme a break smh.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Anyway, I don't need to be part of this silly circle jerk as many of you only have opinions and aren't stating facts. There is really only 1 way to find out. Wake me up if they (whoever thinks they are the best) agree to it.

Thank you for your valuable participation in this thread...someone will get back to you in due course...but don't wait up.