[777ER]

Originally Posted by bmstyle71

115 thousand pounds of fuel.....holy crap lol
It's really mind boggling from the days where the Wright brothers flew xx feet to an airplane the size of a building holding hundreds of thousands of pounds of fuel and 236 people flying thousand of MILES. Wow

Try almost a million pounds, the A380...and it's in 500+ pax range depending on the seat layout.

From what I talked to a co-worker who won a raffle for a seat on a A380 flight, he told me the plane already got problems in it's early stages...fuel pump on MEL, VXG on MEL, cabin items on MEL and he's telling me it's about 2 pages long of MEL crap...then tells me it's a piece of shit considering it's first flight over the atlantic for the airline...


The 777-200LR can do the long way around the earth non-stop...

Singapore Airlines has direct flights EWR-SIN...18 hours and 45 mins...

Delta has some 777-200LR in service and done proving runs...there's direct flights ATL-SYD with it!

[777ER]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

I think the real eye opener will be the 787. It will be so light compared to its size (first commercial plane to incorporate so much CF and other such lightweight materials), plus with the efficiency and the new moisture adding ability and other systems so as to create an environment on the plane that is the same in your house rather than a pressurized cabin, this plane will just shit on the 777, which is saying something. This thing will be able to be flown half full and still make money, making it the first plane to be able to be used on a PHL-ORD run, then ORD-DEL run all in the same 24 hours and make money on both runs. AMAZING!!!

Cheers,
e46e92

That's what I also think, I didn't know it could turn a profit while half full...we'll have to see when the 787 is in revenue service.

I wonder what the Boeing AMM will have in it for repairs prodecures for damages that was done by the rampers...

I'd take a Boeing AMM over a Airbus AMM anyday! much easier to navigate and read in the Boeing's.


As for the profit...A LAX-JFK flight on a AA 767 only turns out $200 (yes that's right, two hundred dollars!) profit after all has been paid (crew, rampers, aircraft lease, maintenance, fees, gate space, parking, etc)

[urbo73]

Interesting news:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/19/hud...olo/index.html

Hmm....

[777ER]

Originally Posted by urbo73

Interesting news:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/19/hud...olo/index.html

Hmm....

Clearly it's a compressor stall...may be small or big...it's always loud.

Pilots and aviation officials said that a compressor stall results from insufficient air getting into the engine and that multiple stalls could result in engine damage. However, the officials said, a momentary compressor stall may be less serious and could be corrected in flight by simply restarting the engine.

That's BS...compressor stalls occur when there's too much air going into the turbine stage at high N2 speeds. One way to make it stall is by pulling back on the throttles too quick...the turbine stage just can't consume the air and it 'coughs' sending all the excessive air back foward thru the compressor. Similar to a backfire in a car.

Try doing this...inhale alot of air at once...just right as you exhale quickly, cough. Basically it's doing the same thing you just did.

A severe compressor stall can break compressor blades.
Severly damaged fan blades or a few broken compressor blades can cause it too.

However the FADEC's and VGV is supposed to handle that by changing the angles of the stators relative to the engine speed and the next direction (increase/decrease) and the fuel presssure (fuel pressure controls the VGV acutator) to the engine...that's what is designed to control compressor stalls and keep it from happening.


I had a troubleshooting guide for a compressor stall problem. Starts out by gradually advancing the throttles to 90% N1 then down to idle, wait 30 seconds then make a mild to fast advance to 100% N1, wait 30 seconds, pull moderate to idle....wait 2 mins...then rapidly set the throttles to 100% N1 like kicking it...wait 10 seconds, slam the throttles to idle and wait for the engine speed to stabilize. Repeat 2 or 3 times.
A few times I've done this, the other n00bs mechs freak out like I'm trying to blow up the engine I'm testing it to either duplicate the problem or making sure it's not doing it.

If the engine starts coughing or making banging noise, the produceure is to throttle down slowly until it stops then slowly advance the throttles...if it continues making banging noise...time to shut it down...if it repeats...bring the throttle to idle and advance slowly....same way it's listed in the checklist for compressor stalls.

[urbo73]

A bit over my head, but if this happened on the same plane 2 days prior, kind of weird, no? Or just business as usual?

[bmstyle71]

Originally Posted by 777ER

Clearly it's a compressor stall...may be small or big...it's always loud.



That's BS...compressor stalls occur when there's too much air going into the turbine stage at high N2 speeds. One way to make it stall is by pulling back on the throttles too quick...the turbine stage just can't consume the air and it 'coughs' sending all the excessive air back foward thru the compressor. Similar to a backfire in a car.

Try doing this...inhale alot of air at once...just right as you exhale quickly, cough. Basically it's doing the same thing you just did.

A severe compressor stall can break compressor blades.
Severly damaged fan blades or a few broken compressor blades can cause it too.

However the FADEC's and VGV is supposed to handle that by changing the angles of the stators relative to the engine speed and the next direction (increase/decrease) and the fuel presssure (fuel pressure controls the VGV acutator) to the engine...that's what is designed to control compressor stalls and keep it from happening.


I had a troubleshooting guide for a compressor stall problem. Starts out by gradually advancing the throttles to 90% N1 then down to idle, wait 30 seconds then make a mild to fast advance to 100% N1, wait 30 seconds, pull moderate to idle....wait 2 mins...then rapidly set the throttles to 100% N1 like kicking it...wait 10 seconds, slam the throttles to idle and wait for the engine speed to stabilize. Repeat 2 or 3 times.
A few times I've done this, the other n00bs mechs freak out like I'm trying to blow up the engine I'm testing it to either duplicate the problem or making sure it's not doing it.

If the engine starts coughing or making banging noise, the produceure is to throttle down slowly until it stops then slowly advance the throttles...if it continues making banging noise...time to shut it down...if it repeats...bring the throttle to idle and advance slowly....same way it's listed in the checklist for compressor stalls.

Yeah on the older jet engines, this was more common to have compressor stalls and surges. But like you said with FADEC those things are virtually eliminated....Unless you get a complete FADEC failure then you get an egine failrue lol. Multiple digital channels are there as a redundancy though. Have you ever heard of a total FADEC failure btw?

[777ER]

Originally Posted by urbo73

A bit over my head, but if this happened on the same plane 2 days prior, kind of weird, no? Or just business as usual?

Pretty sure the captain got on the line with maintenance control and advised them on what to do and the captain elected to continue as seeing maintenance control knows of it now and been informed if there are any eng parameters changes before/after. It's up to the captain to RTF or continue the flight.
If he continues the flight, they will check it out at the arrival airport.

Same way the captain did on a AC A340...he got a bleed valve stuck open during climb on one of the engines, maint. control advised him to return...captain basically said screw it, continuing the trip...maint. control said 'very good, will have it checked out by a contractor as you arrive at the end of the flight'


Once in a while there would be a plane that has a history and the only time to duplicate it is by sending it thru flights or flying it...sometimes we have planes hopping base to base just to troubleshoot down the problem

[777ER]

Originally Posted by bmstyle71

Yeah on the older jet engines, this was more common to have compressor stalls and surges. But like you said with FADEC those things are virtually eliminated....Unless you get a complete FADEC failure then you get an egine failrue lol. Multiple digital channels are there as a redundancy though. Have you ever heard of a total FADEC failure btw?

Not yet so far...just one FADEC failure just from the harness being chaffed...it caused the engine to do a uncommanded shutdown.
Werid since both FADEC's have to agree to shut it down...not one...other FADEC was supposed to take over and keep it running.

[bmstyle71]

Originally Posted by 777ER

Not yet so far...just one FADEC failure just from the harness being chaffed...it caused the engine to do a uncommanded shutdown.
Werid since both FADEC's have to agree to shut it down...not one...other FADEC was supposed to take over and keep it running.

That's scary....... lol
It does make all this calculation crap obsolete but man if it fails on you....you're screwed.

Are you planning on going post ppl or just that as a hobby?

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by 777ER

That's what I also think, I didn't know it could turn a profit while half full...we'll have to see when the 787 is in revenue service.

I wonder what the Boeing AMM will have in it for repairs prodecures for damages that was done by the rampers...

I'd take a Boeing AMM over a Airbus AMM anyday! much easier to navigate and read in the Boeing's.


As for the profit...A LAX-JFK flight on a AA 767 only turns out $200 (yes that's right, two hundred dollars!) profit after all has been paid (crew, rampers, aircraft lease, maintenance, fees, gate space, parking, etc)

777 makes the money to Europe and everywhere else for that matter, that the 767 can never replicate, for AA because of Cargo because of the ability to load the flats.

BTW, no guys, I'm not a 777 pilot. I said I was raised around them, so guess who the guy in the pics were? That same guys is pretty close with my mother and after 30+ years of drilling the shit out of him with questions, reading manuals and going on way too many trips, I know way too much, and yet way to little.

Ever seen Goose Bay, Labrador Canadian Air base? I know a 767 that did.....anther great story that got nothing more than 3 sentences on the back page of the times. Another example of why fire on a plane is not good when crossing the pond

Cheers,
e46e92

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by urbo73

Interesting news:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/01/19/hud...olo/index.html

Hmm....

Its an airbus, so that all sounds normal to me

Cheers,
e46e92

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by 777ER

Pretty sure the captain got on the line with maintenance control and advised them on what to do and the captain elected to continue as seeing maintenance control knows of it now and been informed if there are any eng parameters changes before/after. It's up to the captain to RTF or continue the flight.
If he continues the flight, they will check it out at the arrival airport.

Same way the captain did on a AC A340...he got a bleed valve stuck open during climb on one of the engines, maint. control advised him to return...captain basically said screw it, continuing the trip...maint. control said 'very good, will have it checked out by a contractor as you arrive at the end of the flight'


Once in a while there would be a plane that has a history and the only time to duplicate it is by sending it thru flights or flying it...sometimes we have planes hopping base to base just to troubleshoot down the problem

One or twice my father got on the plane (once when I was on the trip) and the maintenance log had something filed that wasn't a "ground-able offense" so to speak. But people must have kept passing on the issue, so my father finally just said screw it this bird ain't going nowhere till we take care of this. Funny thing was maintenance didn't bitch or argue, the reaction was almost like "good call buddy". There are a bunch of things that technically don't render a plane unsuitable for flight, even according to safety guidelines, doesn't always mean you shouldn't inconvenience the people and get it taken care of rather than waiting for even a Heavy C check.

Cheers,
e46e92

[bmstyle71]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

That same guys is pretty close with my mother and after 30+ years of drilling the shit out of him with questions, reading manuals and going on way too many trips, I know way too much, and yet way to little.

Always nice to have someone like that around. No matter how much you know and study about aviation, you will never know everything and something new all the time through your career as a pilot, a&p mech, controller,e.t.c will make you go 'really? I didn't know that'.

[777ER]

Originally Posted by bmstyle71

That's scary....... lol
It does make all this calculation crap obsolete but man if it fails on you....you're screwed.

Are you planning on going post ppl or just that as a hobby?

Yep...each FADEC costs about $200,000 so we don't carry much on hand.

Nah...no plans to go past PPL....I'm a A&P working for a airline.
I know 2 guys who have A&P and ATP certification but they don't do 'double-duty' for the price of one


Had one ERJ-175 in PHL that did a pushback...started eng #2....right after lightoff...BOOM!
Tow right back into gate...mech came out and saw a few compressor blades on the hot section tailcone...ouch!

after a phone call to GE and pics sent...GE wants the engine off the wing and sent to them ASAP.
Plane was only 1 or 2 weeks old...brand new!

Have to call those guys to see if they heard back from GE on that engine.

[bmstyle71]

Originally Posted by 777ER

Yep...each FADEC costs about $200,000 so we don't carry much on hand.

Nah...no plans to go past PPL....I'm a A&P working for a airline.
I know 2 guys who have A&P and ATP certification but they don't do 'double-duty' for the price of one


Had one ERJ-175 in PHL that did a pushback...started eng #2....right after lightoff...BOOM!
Tow right back into gate...mech came out and saw a few compressor blades on the hot section tailcone...ouch!

after a phone call to GE and pics sent...GE wants the engine off the wing and sent to them ASAP.
Plane was only 1 or 2 weeks old...brand new!

Have to call those guys to see if they heard back from GE on that engine.

Yeah I imagined it would be pricey.
What the hell happened to that engine....those compressor blades going that fast would have caused some serious damage if they smacked the wrong place.

[urbo73]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

Its an airbus, so that all sounds normal to me

Cheers,
e46e92

What I meant was that the way it's written, to the layman (like myself) it sounds like the Thursday incident was maybe related to the Tuesday incident (if indeed the same plane) in some way. Or other variations. If indeed it was the same plane, does it even matter? That was my questions to those in the know.

Also, when should I worry if I hear a loud bang on my flight lol?

I flew once from NY - BOS, and one of the engines flamed out/something on takeoff. I didn't feel anything, but the plane started going very vertical on ascent (probably because of more power now to the single engine? - must have been a 737 - don't recall) and then the pilot came on with some BS like "the weather at our destination is not looking good, so we're gonna turn it back and land" - which he did just fine. Only when we saw firetrucks coming towards us on the runway did we realize it - hey I was just 14 back then! Then the pilot came out with the truth lol. 1988!

I guess stuff like this happens all the time. Still, if I heard a BANG, that would freak me out!

[777ER]

Originally Posted by urbo73

What I meant was that the way it's written, to the layman (like myself) it sounds like the Thursday incident was maybe related to the Tuesday incident (if indeed the same plane) in some way. Or other variations. If indeed it was the same plane, does it even matter? That was my questions to those in the know.

If there has been work done to correct the bang noise or unable to duplicate the problem, or a engine change was done overnight? We don't know until we get the logbook info for history on that week.

Also, when should I worry if I hear a loud bang on my flight lol?

I flew once from NY - BOS, and one of the engines flamed out/something on takeoff. I didn't feel anything, but the plane started going very vertical on ascent (probably because of more power now to the single engine? - must have been a 737 - don't recall) and then the pilot came on with some BS like "the weather at our destination is not looking good, so we're gonna turn it back and land" - which he did just fine. Only when we saw firetrucks coming towards us on the runway did we realize it - hey I was just 14 back then! Then the pilot came out with the truth lol. 1988!

I guess stuff like this happens all the time. Still, if I heard a BANG, that would freak me out!

Worry if you hear a loud bang followed by parts flying off
If people heard every noise/bang, then the flight wouldn't get anywhere...there's always items in the closet or partions moving around due to forces and falling off, same goes for luggage/cargo, overhead bins, hyd accumlators, landing gear doors, thrust reversers, spoilers...etc.

Maybe he did not want to cause panic on the flight...

Parents flew AUA-EWR on a CO 757-200 and on approach the flaps got stuck at 5* deg, fire trucks were rolled out and a high speed landing was done...no problems.

I remembered a long time ago (10+ yrs ago) when I was on a AA 767 flying into AUA and when the landing gear was deployed, followed by the belly doors closing after extenstion, a loud buffing noise/vibration was heard and the lady who was seated directly over the belly portion where the landing gear doors are..shook and threw her book up in the air!

[NYBMW335]

^^ If I am ever in the same flight as you and I hear you say OH SHIT, I know I am screwed. LOL

I am amazed by airplanes, and I love flying. But there have been times where I just wanted to get off that plane. A couple of those OH SHIT moments. Dropping a couple hundred feet for no freaking reason, or a loud bang.. And then the Captain comes on saying we are having some turbulence/technical difficulties please fasten your seat belts. That's when I just hold on tight to my chair. LOL.

There was one time I was flying to Portugal and I think we got hit by lightning, I heard the engines shut off (or idle) and then we started dropping and only after a couple secs we heard the engines again. Really bad storm and there was lightning everywhere.

[bradcfi]

How do yopu tell who is the pilot at a party?








He will tell you.

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by urbo73

What I meant was that the way it's written, to the layman (like myself) it sounds like the Thursday incident was maybe related to the Tuesday incident (if indeed the same plane) in some way. Or other variations. If indeed it was the same plane, does it even matter? That was my questions to those in the know.

Also, when should I worry if I hear a loud bang on my flight lol?

I flew once from NY - BOS, and one of the engines flamed out/something on takeoff. I didn't feel anything, but the plane started going very vertical on ascent (probably because of more power now to the single engine? - must have been a 737 - don't recall) and then the pilot came on with some BS like "the weather at our destination is not looking good, so we're gonna turn it back and land" - which he did just fine. Only when we saw firetrucks coming towards us on the runway did we realize it - hey I was just 14 back then! Then the pilot came out with the truth lol. 1988!

I guess stuff like this happens all the time. Still, if I heard a BANG, that would freak me out!

Yeah I know, I was just making a joke referring to the threads early fun jabs back and forth between pro boeing and pro airbus guys

Cheers,
e46e92

[E90SLAM]

I used to live in Boston and saw plenty of seagull flying around Logan Airport, always got me worried about bird strike on take-off and finals....

[RedGT3]

Originally Posted by bradcfi

How do yopu tell who is the pilot at a party?








He will tell you.

Gardener works better for me.