[Housekeeping]

My one neighbor leases 5 cars at a time, they have two young teen drivers. Generally about $350k worth of cars sitting, all with two year leases. All about beating the Jones, look at me in my new car. So dumb!

[10"]

Originally Posted by Sy1616

My one neighbor leases 5 cars at a time, they have two young teen drivers. Generally about $350k worth of cars sitting, all with two year leases. All about beating the Jones, look at me in my new car. So dumb!

Totally silly.

Buying into the cliches

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Firaxis

After much deliberation I came to the conclusion there’s little reason to replace my car unless I get seriously bored of it.

I am about to hit 10 years with my Saab 9-3 wagon. Car has been middlingly reliable, suspension has needed some work and brakes of course but only real unexpected nasty one was a $1200 replacement of faulty valves.

But even if the car is worth nothing (it's worth about $5K), total cost of ownership excluding gas and insurance is $300 month. You cannot get a base corolla for that over here.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by Sy1616

My one neighbor leases 5 cars at a time, they have two young teen drivers. Generally about $350k worth of cars sitting, all with two year leases. All about beating the Jones, look at me in my new car. So dumb!

lmao wow

[Darth One]

I’m not opposed to having $350k of cars sitting in my garage...but i am to 100% of those being leases.

If you have a car collection of any size, i think there’s a place for leases. for the daily drivers/non-collectibles, it’s kinda nice if those have all the latest tech/be perpetually in warranty.

[GenXer]

There are collector's cars which you buy and keep. Then there are cars like Toyota Corolla which will never go up in value. Why not lease/rent it for 3 years for $160 a month then give it right back once your child is old enough to have a vehicle of their own. New, fully warranty, reliable, free maintenance at least the first year. (some dealers are even offering free maintenance for longer) If you buy a decent used Corolla for $15K and sell it after 3 year, how much are you going to recoup when it's 6 years old with 60K miles? I bet you're going to lose at least $5700 not including new tires, brakes and other services.

[SSW]

Originally Posted by Sy1616

My one neighbor leases 5 cars at a time, they have two young teen drivers. Generally about $350k worth of cars sitting, all with two year leases. All about beating the Jones, look at me in my new car. So dumb!

I've bought and leased many cars over there years and there are good reasons for doing one or the other, based on the economics in question -- age of the car (new or used), rate of depreciation and cost comparision between buying or leasing -- and how you feel about the car being bought or leased.

I own all 5 of my cars now but they are all "old" cars, didn't cost that much, don't have much depreciation left in them and they weren't "leasable" when I bought them anyway.

However, I just returned a 2017 Chevy Bolt EV that I leased for the past 3 yrs.

Didn't want to "buy" it because of the higher upfront and monthly payment costs as compared w/buying and because I wanted the option to lease another EV later when newer models w/more advanced technology became available (as is the case now).

The new price of my 2017 Bolt was about $40k and the used price is around $20k now. That's $20k depreciation in just 3 yrs, which is a pretty typical 50% depreciation rate for more cars in the 1st 3 yrs.

The Bolt cost me an upfront payment in lease fees of about $5k plus $375/mo x 36 months (payment and sales tax), which totaled $18.5k. So, I "save" about $1.5k by leasing instead of owning the car.

So, I have no regrets about leasing the Bolt because the costs of operation were less, because I could just return it and forget it and I am now free to lease another EV (or buy another car) anytime I like, even though I don't really "need" a 6th car.

[Alfisti]

If you're keeping the car 3 years then yeah, lease, that's not the argument. The argument is that keep 3 years to stay in warranty vs own longer makes financial sense, it absolutely doesn't.

My missus is fine sending $850 a month on a lease but a once a year repair bill for $1,000 freaks her out. I'm like it's 5 weeks of a lease payment!

[freakystyly]

Originally Posted by GenXer

There are collector's cars which you buy and keep. Then there are cars like Toyota Corolla which will never go up in value. Why not lease/rent it for 3 years for $160 a month then give it right back once your child is old enough to have a vehicle of their own. New, fully warranty, reliable, free maintenance at least the first year. (some dealers are even offering free maintenance for longer) If you buy a decent used Corolla for $15K and sell it after 3 year, how much are you going to recoup when it's 6 years old with 60K miles? I bet you're going to lose at least $5700 not including new tires, brakes and other services.

We all know that corolla will have more than 6 years and 60k miles left in it.. I'm pretty sure that is one car that doesn't have a lifespan. Which is kind of the whole point of this thread.

[Humdizzle]

there isn't much that goes wrong with older (10 -15 year old) civics/corollas. I've maybe spent a 1000 bucks between fluid changes, service, brake resurfacing/pads, tires all done at the dealer. So lets say all in i'm $7500 into the car within the last 2 years.

I could sell it tomorrow for a fair price of 5500, maybe a few hundred more or less. so im out 2000 bucks for driving 50k miles.

the corolla lease deal im seeing (just clicked the first one) was 190 a month x 36 months x 12k miles per month = $6800 + 2000 due at signing = $8800

$8800 just to rent a new corolla for 36000 miles.
when you can drive a 10 year old one for more miles for $2000-$2500 over 3 years.

after 3 years i'm still keeping the civic. meanwhile the corolla lease person has to drop another 8800 on a 3 year lease deal.

[10"]

Originally Posted by GenXer

There are collector's cars which you buy and keep. Then there are cars like Toyota Corolla which will never go up in value. Why not lease/rent it for 3 years for $160 a month then give it right back once your child is old enough to have a vehicle of their own. New, fully warranty, reliable, free maintenance at least the first year. (some dealers are even offering free maintenance for longer) If you buy a decent used Corolla for $15K and sell it after 3 year, how much are you going to recoup when it's 6 years old with 60K miles? I bet you're going to lose at least $5700 not including new tires, brakes and other services.

That's pretty much the worst example IMO.

If one doesn't care enough about cars to buy something more interesting; a Corolla is definitely a car to keep for 10 years and 100,000 miles.

There is no logical reason to replace a Corolla after 3 years; unless one was into cars—-but clearly they aren't if they bought a Corolla!

They rarely break down big, and repairs will be much cheaper. Even after 10 years they will be worth something.

That being said—-MY POST was about enthusiast cars, not practical runabouts.

[GenXer]

There are different types of enthusiasts. Some just want pure mechanical track cars while others enjoy the technology of cars or just the new look. People don't buy sports car for logical or practical reasons. A BMW spokesperson even said during the relaunch of the Z4 that their target is to appeal to emotions and feelings of buyers.

Also for some, car buying is similar to clothes buying. Often times it's just for fashion. It's becoming ridiculously easy as well. A few clicks on your smart phone and you'll have a car sitting on your driveway. Fashion never made any sense. Why would anyone pay $10K for a purse or a suit and have it be outdated in 3 months?

But in the end it's their money and their freedom to spend it on what they enjoy. Some non enthusiasts believe that spending money on wheels, tires, suspension or any modification is absurd and wasteful too.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Darth One

I'm not opposed to having $350k of cars sitting in my garage...but i am to 100% of those being leases.

If you have a car collection of any size, i think there's a place for leases. for the daily drivers/non-collectibles, it's kinda nice if those have all the latest tech/be perpetually in warranty.

Peeps, don't forget the tax advantages of leasing. These advantages are why a lot of self-employed lease rather than buy.

[AlpineWhite_SJ]

Did someone say Corolla? I guess it depends on how long you keep them..

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...ota-corolla-7/

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...ta-corolla-13/

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...-corolla-gt-s/

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...ota-corolla-5/

[Bingham]

Originally Posted by Sy1616

My one neighbor leases 5 cars at a time, they have two young teen drivers. Generally about $350k worth of cars sitting, all with two year leases. All about beating the Jones, look at me in my new car. So dumb!

Keeping up and falling behind...

[fotontom]

My personal dream had always been an M car. In late 2006, I was in a position where the M Roadster was being discounted because they could not move them. I leased it, later bought it out when they discounted them further. Loved that car! I began to modify it extensively, eventually recreating CSL spec. Dyno'd the thing at 400+ flywheel HP.

Then a funny thing happened.

I got a little financial comfort and justified buying a Shelby GT-500 Mustang to myself. Yeah, the 662 HP version. Found out performance on that level was DANGEROUS. Got to the point I rarely drove it. Eventually sold it, and to make a long story short, am now really enjoying a nice used '12 128i 'vert. Every day. Sometimes we enjoy the simpler things more.

[Savageenterprise]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Peeps, don't forget the tax advantages of leasing. These advantages are why a lot of self-employed lease rather than buy.

This is exactly why I currently lease my 340, the wifes RDX and a Kia soul. The BMW and Kia are full write offs and the RDX is half.

If I financed I'd only be able to deduct depreciation. Not saying I could spend less money if I had older cars. I'm not disillusioned to think that I'm saving money this way but this is the main reason I lease.

I can tell you I'm certainly not on some beating the joneses agenda, I could give a damn less what my neighbors think lol but there's alot of people like that.

Perfect example is I recently put in a paver patio with a firepit in my backyard so naturally I had the materials sitting in my driveway for a couple days before hand. Myself along with a bunch of other guys were doing the work and not more than a couple days later my neighbor walks over when he sees me outside and goes...."Hey, hows the backyard coming along. I'd love to see blah blah."

Some people I guess feel like they need to be doing something better than the next or keeping up with their neighbors. I never understood that

[LOW4LYF]

BMW is just damn cheap in lease!

115K M4 CS for $700
vs
98K RS5 for $1400

Insurance is super cheap in CA, I own currently 5 used BMW and one classic. Gonna lease most likely another new BMW soon...

[baege]

so here's the thing, I like newish cars and I can not lie

a newish car has a tightness to it and just feels better than an older car with more mileage, it also tends on average to be more trouble free which of course adds to the enjoyment

so it's not so much about the latest and greatest, but more about the best driving and ownership experience possible, which I think comes with a newer tighter car

this is why the trend we've seen away from normally aspirated motors and manual transmissions pains me, because the options available in a newish car with such a combination are becoming increasingly sparse...(and in fact I couldn't find one that worked for me, hence my M2C)

Before I got the M2C, I test drove a low mileage 2007 e86 m coupe. I had an m240i at the time. The e86 just felt loose and old when I drove it compared to my newish 2018 M240i. I was contemplating adding the e86 and keeping the m240i, but after the drive I didn't want the e86.

with the newish cars versus the older cars, there's a trade off between tightness and crispness versus some more engaging dynamics of the older cars (normal aspiration, hydraulic steering, manual transmissions), and where the balance lies is different for all of us

but I don't think that where you land on this question makes you any more or less of an enthusiast, it's just that different things make you enthusiastic

[M5Rick]

Non car people are the problem leasing,renting,whatever and changing every two to three years or so making car values drop and flooding the second hand market with too many vehicles..
As the OP says if people took pride in their purchases and kept hold of them longer and cared for them then there would be fewer cars to chase and they would be worth much more

[jmhumr]

I think this has less to do with "keeping up with the Joneses" and more to do with a society that primarily evaluates their spending in terms of monthly expenses. Car companies have done a great job exploiting this change with lease terms that seem like a bargain compared to a traditional car payment.

This modern financial behavior is why I have zero sympathy for people who get sucked into the US's personal debt crisis.

[Firaxis]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Interestingly enough, I'd say that my experience is inverse. I would consider myself to have been much more a "car enthusiast" in the first five or so years of driving than as I sit right now. I'd say the longest I held on to a car was about six months, and this allowed me to experience quite the spectrum of vehicles in the <$20k market AND people. If I wanted a car, I'd find someone else with a title and we'd trade or I'd sell it. I'd tinker with it, get involved in its respective community, and then repeat the process. I've got so many stories, trips, experiences, friendships out of this and had an absolute blast. Granted, this was before the state of Georgia had sales tax on private sales, so it cost me effectively nothing. If it did cost me something, the math generally came out to be fun > expense.

Now, I'm holding on to cars for years. I still love cars with it being very high on my "List of Importance." It's just not at the top anymore. So, now I'm a "lesser" enthusiast, but I'm holding on to the cars. Maybe I've become lazy. Maybe it just doesn't matter as much. Maybe I'll rebound my love. I still have a list of cars I lust for, but I think the next one I get is going to be a perpetual project. I think I'd rather add to the collection than replace.

I've actually just hit that stage recently, at one point I'd clamour to test the newest or upgrade even if it was 20HP and I'd enjoy shopping about, talking about cars, researching, going on track days or trying out the latest model.

Unfortunately now I'm able to afford some very nice cars I also couldn't care less, I'd happily trundle to the shop in a Yaris.

I think modern cars and modern driving is a part of it, for a start the roads here are overpopulated. Traffic jams, highway cruising and potential accidents are all too common, safety regulations have tightened to address said issues and you're stuck with a powerful car thinking what's the point?

I'll keep my F30 3'er until it dies because IMO we have hit the land of diminishing gains but higher price tags. An upper end "premium" car from the last five / ten at least is highly competent, has everything you actually need and often wayyyy too much for the road.