[Enroutte]

Originally Posted by ZenDriver

I am a big supporter of gay rights and I am relatively shocked by the number of homophobic fascists on this forum.

That being said, I can see why people might not like fem-men. The tight t-shirts, primped hair and that voice makes me want to grab them by the neck and scream at them to man the hell up. Still though, that doesn't mean one should discriminate...

My makeup artist at MAC talks like that. I was just there yesterday and I asked if he had an eyeshadow in a color I wanted and he was like "YESS MY DARRRRRLINGG, like of courseee!" It doens't really bug me. I think maybe because I'm a girl and I've had a lot of gay guy friends -- some feminine -- that it doesn't phase me anymore.

I think being a homophobe has to do with where a person grows up. Growing up here in northern california, I see gays all the time and it's just not a big deal. I think people in society need to be more open and understanding to people who may not be "the norm" that they're used to. America is all about rights and acceptance. Why is this situation any different?

[JamieA]

Originally Posted by wahoo

My .02 is that the gay rights activists want to (for lack of a better word) 'normalize' their sexuality. I'm not geneticist but I'm not certain that its 'normal' ie...IMO, if it was we'd have half the population gay

It is like saying if "Blonde hair is normal, why isn't half the population blonde?" Or rare blood types.

Biologists say "If a trait is preserved in a species, it must be useful to its survival". And we all know why Blondeness helps the species survive :wink:

So far evolution hasn't stamped gayness out, meaning that at some level, even if it was in that past, this trait is useful. Think about it, we are men, able to do the workload of a man, but will not compete sexually with men for women. That would have been very useful for earlier humans who lived in tribes where survival depended on sheer grit and determination, and where harmony was essential.

There are many societies, of the past, and currently in Asia where gayness is integrated as a "3rd gender" and these people have a place and a role in society that helps it survive and thrive.

Also, "Normal" is a loaded word. It is more productive to say that heterosexuality is common, and homosexuality is rare.

We don't seek to "normalise" our sexuality, but to engage the debate that is already out there on its own terms, which is an agenda first set by the Church. The "anti gay" camp says it is a choice and sinful as defined in the Bible. So to that we say it is a trait that people are born with, their natural emotional orientation, and therefore part of some process that is beyond individual choice.

I wish people would stop seeing this as a win/loose situation. All that is being asked for is equality under law, and safety from harm. Our equality does not affect anyone else, does not take anything away from you, or harm others, yet some people act and argue as if they are going to loose something in the process.

As you know you can't legislate tollerance, but the laws of the state set the tone.

[ZenDriver]

I think people in society need to be more open and understanding to people who may not be "the norm" that they're used to.

This is true, but I just see flaming homosexual men as a major annoyance because they are sort of the extreme end of this whole metrosexual pansy-boy skin-tight vintage t-shirt wearing, facial products using, in touch with his feelings, primped hair thing going on and it just pisses me the hell off.

The other night, I was at a pretty well known, upscale club here in Downtown portland and one gentelman smashed a pint glass into another man's face- which is not a normal occurrence at the Doug Fir. Having formally been in the emergency medical community and a cult like military organization, this situation was sort of fun for me but jesus- all the hipsters just screamed like little god damn girls as if the world was ending. I couldn't even get a bar towl to put on the laceration because the bar staff was so utterly freaked out. Stylish gay men are USELESS when the shit hits the fan, and that annoys the piss out of me.

Then again, the opposite side of the spectrum aren't exactly wonderful human beings. Life is about balance.