[SonnyJack]

Now the Renault boss is blaming him for their dismal 2009 performance, saying he provided no driver feedback since he knew he was going to Ferrari.

I'll admit I am no fan, but isn't this kinda piling on?

[E90SLAM]

That's one of the reasons Renault suffered last year.
Why would alonso give useful feedbacks knowing he won't be driving for the yellow team next year? Might as well spend more time in Maranello.

[escobar929]

Its hard to say if these claims are true but if it is, its pretty dick of him to do. Its your job and you are getting paid tons of money. Regardless of whats happening next year, one should do their job to the best of their abilities, IMO

[SonnyJack]

Originally Posted by escobar929

Its hard to say if these claims are true but if it is, its pretty dick of him to do. Its your job and you are getting paid tons of money. Regardless of whats happening next year, one should do their job to the best of their abilities, IMO

Again, I'm no fan, but isn't the timing a bit strange? The uproar about Ferrari team ordera and now this juicy bit? Hey, I agree with your sentiment about doing your job, but I also believe if you have something to bring up, don't wait until the wolves are at the door. Call him out from the start of the season.

[UltimateBMW]

I consider the team order thing to have settled down a bit. Not forgotten, just settled.

[escobar929]

Originally Posted by SonnyJack

Again, I'm no fan, but isn't the timing a bit strange? The uproar about Ferrari team ordera and now this juicy bit? Hey, I agree with your sentiment about doing your job, but I also believe if you have something to bring up, don't wait until the wolves are at the door. Call him out from the start of the season.

yea, i agree but people tend to kick others while down so maybe they saw it as an opening while if he would have brought it up from the get go, he might have come off as an angry ex GF

[SonnyJack]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

I consider the team order thing to have settled down a bit. Not forgotten, just settled.

It had settled but now reports are saying they have confirmed that the coded words were prearranged and that Alonso was the impetus.

In other words, nothing new, but not letting it settle down either. Hell, they've got 4 friggin weeks to keep digging on this. I'm sure it's not over.

[KANdaddy]

I call BS. Look how competitive the Renault car is compared to last year. Its not all Kubica either b/c rookie Petrov has had moments where he looked good in the new car as well. Based on what we know about F1 development, that means that Alonso prob had something to do with the improved car this year based on last year's development.

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by KANdaddy

I call BS. Look how competitive the Renault car is compared to last year. Its not all Kubica either b/c rookie Petrov has had moments where he looked good in the new car as well. Based on what we know about F1 development, that means that Alonso prob had something to do with the improved car this year based on last year's development.

You got a point...from how consistent Kubica did since first race...I would doubt Renault didn't start development until late 2009....

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by escobar929

Its hard to say if these claims are true but if it is, its pretty dick of him to do. Its your job and you are getting paid tons of money. Regardless of whats happening next year, one should do their job to the best of their abilities, IMO

Amen to that, but few actually do it.

And drivers aiding to development, I think that's overrated nowadays IMO; it's all about aerodynamics now, and most drivers don't know squat about that. Remember RBR has Renault engines, so Renault is not lacking in that department. The wind tunnel doesn't lie. I personally think drivers' role in development is minimal at best; engineering teams are a lot more important now. If a car is slower than others at top speed, what the hell can I driver contribute to increase it??? But yes, engineering still has to match car to driver for maximum handling benefits, and that requires some driver input (telemetry provides most of the feedback, no?).

[ianbiz]

Originally Posted by elp_jc

Amen to that, but few actually do it.

And drivers aiding to development, I think that's overrated nowadays IMO; it's all about aerodynamics now, and most drivers don't know squat about that. Remember RBR has Renault engines, so Renault is not lacking in that department. The wind tunnel doesn't lie. I personally think drivers' role in development is minimal at best; engineering teams are a lot more important now. If a car is slower than others at top speed, what the hell can I driver contribute to increase it??? But yes, engineering still has to match car to driver for maximum handling benefits, and that requires some driver input (telemetry provides most of the feedback, no?).

I agree about 90% there but look at MercGP.. the car was built around Jensen and Rubens' driving style which is the exact opposite of MS's. Jensen even mentioned how he prefers a little understeer and MS has always favored a car w/ 0 understeer, very sharp front end and some oversteer.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by ianbiz

I agree about 90% there but look at MercGP.. the car was built around Jensen and Rubens' driving style which is the exact opposite of MS's. Jensen even mentioned how he prefers a little understeer and MS has always favored a car w/ 0 understeer, very sharp front end and some oversteer.

I would argue your example above proves the exact opposite of the point about drivers having little to do with development.

If drivers had nothing to do with it, the car wouldn't be how it is. Jensen had that car tailor made. Meaning he had a heavy hand in the setup and configuration which then drives a certain style of innovation.

At the end of the day, the drivers have to get into it and make it perform. If they aren't happy with its behavior and mannerisms under certain conditions, they probably won't put out any stellar performances.

I view it as a symbiotic relationship. Which is why I'm such a fan of Hamilton. He is fully devoted to Mclaren and its a great thing they have there. He is a superb driver for one of the best teams. Alonso is very much in a grass is always greener type mentality. He could have made Renault into something and been a made man, but he wanted to play the game. So Renault got Kubica and now Kubica is their poster boy.

I'd like for either Vettel, Hamilton, or Kubica to win the next few titles. Wouldn't mind Button either. He is solid, but Hamilton needs his 2nd WDC if he is going to pursue creating a legacy in the sport. Which he absolutely is capable of.

[JCtx]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

If drivers had nothing to do with it, the car wouldn't be how it is. Jensen had that car tailor made. Meaning he had a heavy hand in the setup and configuration which then drives a certain style of innovation.

Very true, but that has nothing to do with development IMO. You can just tell engineering how you want your car to handle certain way without knowing squat about how to mechanically achieve that. Then you just test the car, relay your feedback, and engineering will decide what to change. Yes, that's part of the 'development' to match car to driver, but driver has little meaningful input IMO. If driver knows what to change, and can discuss it with engineering at a technical level, he'd get exactly what he wants, and/or get there much quicker. Am I making sense? That's what I meant, but guess I'm not a good writer .

It's like a bookkeeper telling the IT guy to add a formula to the accounting software vs doing it oneself. The job requires knowing how to operate the software (just like driving the car well), but knowing how to program it yourself is a bonus since you're doing it the way you want it, and much quicker.

Anyway, the 'developmental' biggie in F1 is aerodynamics IMO, and usually drivers won't contribute squat to that. That's where RBR has an advantage now, but eventually the others catch up one way or another (like MW's car undercarriage when it flipped up ), or when items like the flexible wings crop up. Compared to Nascar, where all cars are basically the same, F1 is a lot less about driver's talent IMO. You still require lots of talent, of course, but other factors make it less so IMO. But it's definitely more fascinating to watch than Nascar any day of the week. Later.

[M3V8Driver]

Whatever. Alonso's situation, attitude, and everything els are nothing new. In fact, it's all only about 1/2 of the horses!t Schumacher dished out. Let's also not forget that the majority of fellow F1 drivers voted Alonso as best current driver.