[E82tt6]

Resounding success in my view. It's not meant be be a sport sedan, but from those handling numbers it looks like it does ok.

Large, comfy, reliable, fast, and pretty cheap. Sounds like a safe bet to me.

[E82tt6]

Originally Posted by Project1

I'll pay extra for a better car. IMHO, it doesn't matter how much they try, until the domestic companies start spending the cash to make things the best (which makes the car cost more) they will always be behind in the game. You get what you pay for in this world, plain and simple, end of story.

You could by this and a lightly used 911 for the cost of BMW's comparable offering (750).

As for best:

CTS-V. No other sedan will keep up, period. Don't think it get much more "best" than "fastest sports sedan made, in a straight line or around a track"
ZR-1. Nuff said
C6. Nothing will touch it at the price.
Mustang GT. The new one looks to offer performance approaching that of an M3 in all regards. Nothing will touch it at the price.
Camaro. Fastest car sub 40k.
G8. Best performing sedan in the price range.

I don't know why people still put down American cars. For the most part, they're more reliable and cheaper to operate than anything we own. This ain't the 70s.

[ptack]

Originally Posted by E82tt6

You could by this and a lightly used 911 for the cost of BMW's comparable offering (750).

As for best:

CTS-V. No other sedan will keep up, period. Don't think it get much more "best" than "fastest sports sedan made, in a straight line or around a track"
ZR-1. Nuff said
C6. Nothing will touch it at the price.
Mustang GT. The new one looks to offer performance approaching that of an M3 in all regards. Nothing will touch it at the price.
Camaro. Fastest car sub 40k.
G8. Best performing sedan in the price range.

I don't know why people still put down American cars. For the most part, they're more reliable and cheaper to operate than anything we own. This ain't the 70s.

Because they made mostly crap for about 30+ years. It's going to take more than a couple of new models to undo the reputations they earned. I also think that interiors of most of the cars you list are still crap. I read an interesting article about GM that described their rigid processes which literally meant that they did often run out of money and time when it came to interiors. Only within the past year has bancrupcy forced them to abandon their inherently flawed approach. Maybe their 2013 or later cars will have all-around excellence.

[nyc3r]

Originally Posted by ptack

Because they made mostly crap for about 30+ years. It's going to take more than a couple of new models to undo the reputations they earned. I also think that interiors of most of the cars you list are still crap. I read an interesting article about GM that described their rigid processes which literally meant that they did often run out of money and time when it came to interiors. Only within the past year has bancrupcy forced them to abandon their inherently flawed approach. Maybe their 2013 or later cars will have all-around excellence.

yup, the last american car i had experienced complete electronic failure 6 days brand new from the dealer... after tons of recalls and random breakdowns.. i'd never get another american car.. would rather have japanese for reliability or european for fun

[ben14142001]

Not true. The Panamera Turbo is faster in every regard.

Originally Posted by E82tt6

As for best:

CTS-V. No other sedan will keep up, period. Don't think it get much more "best" than "fastest sports sedan made, in a straight line or around a track"

[ChrisV]

Originally Posted by nyc3r

yup, the last american car i had experienced complete electronic failure 6 days brand new from the dealer... after tons of recalls and random breakdowns.. i'd never get another american car.. would rather have japanese for reliability or european for fun

And the last 3 American cars I bought new experienced zero failures during the entire years that I owned them.

But my BMW OTOH, has failed quite a bit. Funny how BMWs and imports get a pass from you guys but not domestics. If a BMW or a Toyota has a problem it's "you just got a bad one." If a Domestic has an issue "I'll never own another domestic as long as I live 'cause one of the gave me a problem once."

effin' retarded, if you ask me.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by ben14142001

Not true. The Panamera Turbo is faster in every regard.

And that proves the point. It takes stepping up to a vehilce that costs more than double it's price to find something in the same size class that's faster.

If you put a $100k cap on it, NOTHING in the same size class as the CTS-V can touch it, and that's pretty damn impressive to anyone who isn't absolutely dead set on ignoring it.

[ben14142001]

Oh, I agree completely. For the price, the CTS-V is one hell of a car, but the statement that it is the fastest sedan in the world is clearly incorrect. If you are going by value, I definitely agree that the CTS-V is a much, much, much better deal. Honestly, I don't even find the Panamera good looking and I think it is grossly overpriced, but the performance is undeniable. I mean, if someone had brought a Panamera Turbo to that shootout, I'm fairly certainly it would have won, because GM made the bold claim that it was faster than any other sedan in the world, regardless of price.

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

And that proves the point. It takes stepping up to a vehilce that costs more than double it's price to find something in the same size class that's faster.

If you put a $100k cap on it, NOTHING in the same size class as the CTS-V can touch it, and that's pretty damn impressive to anyone who isn't absolutely dead set on ignoring it.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by ben14142001

Oh, I agree completely. For the price, the CTS-V is one hell of a car, but the statement that it is the fastest sedan in the world is clearly incorrect. If you are going by value, I definitely agree that the CTS-V is a much, much, much better deal. Honestly, I don't even find the Panamera good looking and I think it is grossly overpriced, but the performance is undeniable. I mean, if someone had brought a Panamera Turbo to that shootout, I'm fairly certainly it would have won, because GM made the bold claim that it was faster than any other sedan in the world, regardless of price.

At the time GM made that statement, I don't think the Turbo was available in the US, but I might be wrong.


Edit: It looks like it went on sale sometime in October, but I'm not sure if that means they started taking orders, or there were cars available for sale at dealers. It's questionable.

[ben14142001]

Yeah, I think you are correct. I don't think there were many/any in the US at the time, unless they were press/test vehicles. I went and looked at one about 3 weeks ago.

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

At the time GM made that statement, I don't think the Turbo was available in the US, but I might be wrong.


Edit: It looks like it went on sale sometime in October, but I'm not sure if that means they started taking orders, or there were cars available for sale at dealers. It's questionable.

[Cordoba1]

Hi guys: New to the board - and new to BMW. I have my first BMW, a 1er and loving it!

I have to say, I just got out of a Mercury Marauder, my second, and a HUGE car it it's own right...

After hanging out on the Ford sites for the last few years, I can tell you this Taraus car is their wet dream. Ford/Merc/Linc had exactly zero cars for the *ahem* mature enthusiast until the SHO/MKS came along. It's good to have a "Halo" car for the brand -- and this is it for older Ford customers.

Who ever said, "That's like saying your car is "still an Isetta."" -- That's a brilliant comment filled with delicious irony. This SHO isn't a '79 Ford Fairmont!