[Deho]

Hi!

I've got a few months to go before I order a new car which I plan to keep for a long time (I drive a lot, so can't lease).

This thread is mostly about PHEV vs BEV cars, but since I'm leaning towards a 5 series for my next purchase, I think it's interesting to discuss this question here.

My question is this: with ICE cars on their way out, which do you think, between a PHEV and a BEV, will be better for let's say the next 7 to 10 years, at least? I changed cars a lot in the last few years but this time I'm getting one that checks all the boxes to keep for a long time.

I'm in hard hesitation between a few models but the strongest contenders right now for me are the 550e and i5 (xDrive40).

Here are the pros and cons I see if I buy one of those for the next 7-10 years:

550e
Pros:
- ICE cars will be around for a long time even if they are on their way out so getting gas should still be the fastest way to restore range for the forseeable future
- A bit lighter
- Very fast
- Presumably more fun to drive
Cons:
- Way more expensive to fill up (in my province)
- Pollutes more than a BEV
- In 7-10 years gas prices could explode as electrification takes over
- In 7-10 years resale value may be very low as we get better and better BEVs on the road

i5 (xDrive40)
Pros:
- Way cheaper to fill up (in my province). In 7-10 years this could change though if public chargers become way more expensive.
- Pollutes less
- Still quite fast
Cons:
- Heavier
- The charging infrastructure is good in my province, but it's still not as convenient as filling up at one of our numerous service stations
- In 7-10 years resale value may be low as we get better and better BEVs on the road, but it will still be a BEV hence it may not be as dated?

What do you think about this? See any other Pros and Cons I may have not thought about? i5 and 550e (or 530e) buyers, why did you choose the car that you chose? Do you plan on keeping it for a long time?

DISCLAIMER: This thread is not for 540i buyers to tell us about how they think ICE cars are better ;-)

[Tortelli]

From my perspective as an European I would prefer the PHEV route. With everyday use the electric range of the 550e is sufficient 90% of the time. When pulling a trailer, on holidays and when driving for fun you use the straight 6 to have old-school fun!
Since our holidays are mostly somewhere within Europe (Italy, Spain) the charging structure there is very limited.

In the Netherlands the struggles with electrification are becoming more and more visible. I don’t think ICE’s are dead after 2030 or 2035. I think the choice really depends on your specific usecase.

From a price and performance point of view you should compact the i5 xDrive40 to the 530e.

[digriz]

There are a few variables to consider, I think.

For example, a PHEV could be the best choice if your driving often brings you away from home, as even with the Tesla superchargers opening to most BEVs in the next 12-18 months, a PHEV is simply more flexible than a BEV in terms of fuel and charging - although if you cannot charge the battery your fuel economy goes out of the window, I imagine. However, if you drive in the city most of the time, your daily driving mileage (kilometrage?) is less than the BEV range, and most of your days you go back home, then a BEV is solid choice.

PHEVs are also more complex: they integrate a high voltage battery plus electric motor (BEV) with a combustion engine and transmission (ICE). In the long run, as you plan to keep the car for 7-10 years, this could lead to higher repair and maintenance costs.

I have chosen a BEV because my household has two cars, because my travels rarely exceed 400km per day, and because I do not travel out of province 99% of the time. But I did consider both a PHEV and a hybrid - though availability and timing did not work in their favour.

I did not factor the new M5 in these considerations...

Hope this helps a bit!

[Deho]

Originally Posted by Tortelli

With everyday use the electric range of the 550e is sufficient 90% of the time.

[...]

From a price and performance point of view you should compact the i5 xDrive40 to the 530e.

Thanks for the answer! However the points you made above have counterpoints here:
1. For me the 550e projected electric range (about 60km) will be enough, as you said, for most errands in town. But I do make longer trips (300-500km) almost every week, so I would use the engine a lot.
2. The 550e and i5 xDrive40 here in Canada are almost exactly the same price (and we don't get the 530e for this new model).

[Deho]

Originally Posted by digriz

For example, a PHEV could be the best choice if your driving often brings you away from home, [...] a PHEV is simply more flexible than a BEV in terms of fuel and charging.

However, if you drive in the city most of the time, your daily driving mileage (kilometrage?) is less than the BEV range, and most of your days you go back home, then a BEV is solid choice.

PHEVs are also more complex: they integrate a high voltage battery plus electric motor (BEV) with a combustion engine and transmission (ICE). In the long run, as you plan to keep the car for 7-10 years, this could lead to higher repair and maintenance costs.

Interesting and yes, for many people that want a PHEV or BEV the main question is this: do I travel more on a daily basis than the electric range of a typical PHEV gives me? If the answer is yes, a BEV seems like the obvious choice, since you don't have to use gas at all.

BUT the question flips when you do long trips; the BEV seems less tempting because you have to use public chargers a lot.

Seems like the use case is clear for anyone wanting an electrified vehicle in certains circonstances and not so clear in others:

1. Use case 1: Mainly a commuter car (small commute + small errands) with a road trip only once in a while. CLEAR WINNER: PHEV
2. Use case 2: Mainly a commuter car (but bigger commute and/or bigger errands) with a road trip once in a while. NO CLEAR WINNER, depends on owner's preferences
3. Use case 3: Local use + more frequent road trips. Good public charger situation in the region/province. ADVANTAGE: BEV
4. Use case 4: Local use + more frequent road trips. Bad public charger situation in the region/province. CLEAR WINNER: PHEV
5. Use case 5: Local use + very frequent road trips. Good public charger situation in the region/province. NO CLEAR WINNER, depends on owner's preferences
6. Use case 6: Local use + very frequent road trips. Bad public charger situation in the region/province. CLEAR WINNER: PHEV. In that particular case, an ICE may even be the answer, if the battery is hardly used.

My use case is mostly 5.

As for you point about maintenance, thanks for bringing it up, I didn't put it in the pros and cons and should have.

[robfen]

if you make longer trips every week you will use a lot of petrol

if the trips are predictable and you can plan your charging en route then get the BEV

Keep in mind it'll be 200 mile range in the winter.

You will be charging to 100% so battery will degrade faster if you keeping it a long time

I have a 550e and an i4 in the household

550e works best for occasional long trips

[Deho]

Originally Posted by robfen

if you make longer trips every week you will use a lot of petrol

if the trips are predictable and you can plan your charging en route then get the BEV

Keep in mind it'll be 200 mile range in the winter.

You will be charging to 100% so battery will degrade faster if you keeping it a long time

Yeah, petrol consumption concerns me for the reasons mentioned in my first post (pollution, price).

The charging network here is quite good so planning long trips isn't a problem. The problem is that it is a LOT of stops since I have almost a weekly road trip for work. I won't charge to 100% on rapid charger though. But yeah, frequent road trips makes for a lot of charging cycles. Battery degradation isn't a huge concern of mine since the battery will be covered by the warranty for a long time, but it's good that you bring it up.

No matter which way I look at it there is no "obvious" solution for my use case. Interesting that you have both a PHEV and a BEV :-) I guess this solves the problem, but yeah, I don't need two cars.

[RichardInCA]

Originally Posted by Deho

Yeah, petrol consumption concerns me for the reasons mentioned in my first post (pollution, price).

The charging network here is quite good so planning long trips isn't a problem. The problem is that it is a LOT of stops since I have almost a weekly road trip for work. I won't charge to 100% on rapid charger though. But yeah, frequent road trips makes for a lot of charging cycles. Battery degradation isn't a huge concern of mine since the battery will be covered by the warranty for a long time, but it's good that you bring it up.

No matter which way I look at it there is no "obvious" solution for my use case. Interesting that you have both a PHEV and a BEV :-) I guess this solves the problem, but yeah, I don't need two cars.

Have you considered renting and EV for a few days/road trip and seeing how it works for you? That might be a real help in working out which way to jump.

On top of the points above, I love the idea that the maintenance requirements foran EV is just so much less burdensome - there are fewer parts to go wrong. Over time I think that will really make a difference. I’m curious over the long haul whether the difference in residual values will be as big (obviously it’s worse at 3yrs for EV vs ICE). I also think that if you are mostly using L2 charging for smaller top ups between road trips, battery life may work out well.

[digriz]

These are great points. One thing I do not know is what happens if the combustion part of the PHEV doesn't get used for a couple of months (e.g., short commutes, city driving w/slow traffic). Does the engine come online every once in a while regardless of whether it is needed? I've never owned a PHEV before, please pardon my question.

[bmwterp]

I have been a M550 owner and now have an I5M60.

Not trying to be a jerk, but if you're really concerned about the cost difference between owning these two cars, you maybe should consider a different option altogether. It's really kinda minimal in the grand scheme of things.

As for the two cars, I would first make sure you're good with an electric car. Do you want the electric car experience? Do you take long drives? ETC. If not, and you're planning to keep it long term, then I would not take the risk.

If you are open to the electric car, why not drive both of them and compare them side to side?

[lilstevie]

Originally Posted by Tortelli

With everyday use the electric range of the 550e is sufficient 90% of the time.

I think this is one of the big things that needs to taken into account. For a lot of people it might be sufficient, for others it wouldn’t. The electric range of the 550e, even if it was available in Australia, would not be enough for my usage. I’ve had my i5 for 10 days and I’ve done 950km. Of that only about 300km is from a long distance trip, the rest is just driving around my city.

For someone who had the normal around town and trip kms reversed, the 550e would definitely make more sense

[whofelt]

Hybrid > All electric

[footie]

There isn’t really a huge difference in weight between the 550e X-Drive and the i5M60, a bit over 150kg so we are talking about 6.5% more.

If you need to do long trips on a regular basis then the i5 isn’t for you and certainly not the M60 version so the 550e would definitely be the better option plus towing the petrol engine will be much better suited.

That said if you don’t do many miles or regular long journeys I would go i5 every single time over a hybrid, even one as good as the BMW. Nothing beats the instant torque or smooth drivetrain of an EV.

[agorski]

I switched from ICE to BEV. Thought about PHEV but I would have been interested in the 530e and that model didn’t make it over here.

Have you noticed that an equivalent PHEV compared to ICE is heavier, has a smaller gas tank, has marginal power/torque in EV mode, and is way more complex as mentioned above? For these reasons I stopped considering PHEV.

[AP]

I think you initially have to consider the practicalities of a pure EV before anything else
If that’s works for you the you can add that to your choices, if it doesn’t then remove it

That’s actually quite a big question for anyone , not to be considered lightly

[Scrapula]

I bought my i5 M60 and am planning on keeping it at least through the 8 year battery warranty. I live in Washington State and our zero emission deadline is 2035. Fuel costs are high and electricity is cheap.

If I traveled, I probably would have kept my ICE car, but all my driving is local. I work from home, but if I have to go to the office it is 70 miles round trip. Good for an EV.

[Deho]

Originally Posted by bmwterp

Not trying to be a jerk, but if you're really concerned about the cost difference between owning these two cars, you maybe should consider a different option altogether. It's really kinda minimal in the grand scheme of things.

As for the two cars, I would first make sure you're good with an electric car. Do you want the electric car experience? Do you take long drives? ETC. If not, and you're planning to keep it long term, then I would not take the risk.

If you are open to the electric car, why not drive both of them and compare them side to side?

Hey, thanks for the response.

There are a few things here I want to answer:

1. Fuel cost IS an important factor here. I did the math and I spend about 280$ on fuel in long distance travels per month. With an EV cost of recharging for the same use is about 60$/month where I live (public chargers here are not expensive compared to other provinces). That's a 2640$/year difference between the 550e and i5 since both are otherwise the same price.

2. I'm good with an EV. I had both an i3 REX (for years) and a 530e. I've used the i3 for long distance travels a lot so I'm used to public chargers.

3. I will try both the i5 xDrive40 and 550e when they are available here :-) I still think it's interesting to discuss here beforehand.

[Nighthawks]

For me, I’ve driven up and down the east coast from Quebec to Florida on business and personal trips. Including several inland states: Ohio, West Virginia, Tennessee, Alabama.

I’d definitely would go 550e, but I can’t wait until batteries have more range and there are more charging stations on the east coast.

[whofelt]

Fuel is expensive but electricity is cheap, geez I wish that was the case in California

[X5 45e]

I have been driving a Taycan 4 CT for 2 years. An X5 45e before that.

The Taycan is a great drive. Also on the highway. Really comfortable but also sporty.

After two years I have come to realize that everything trip we took became focused on charging.

Last two years all our hotels were chosen on charger availability. All rental houses near charging facilities.

For every trip we took, I spent hours on ABRP to find the ideal route and chargers with plan a, b and c. And still sometimes things didn’t go as planned and I had to change plans along the way.

Finding out which rfid card is best for what country. What chargers are most reliable. All takes time.

Packing light not having to put on the roofbox on because it reduces range. Purchased a roofbox because the Taycan has much less luggage space than the X5.

DC charger availability is good in Europe. But still it takes planning.

Never had real range anxiety until last week. Coming back from Germany. 3% SoC left 10 km before a DC charger and hit a 20 minutes traffic jam. Exit highway earlier, non existing DC charger, second trafic jam. Thing turned out fine at the end.

Fast charging worked like it should 80% of the time. Had charge speeds between 250-270 Kw. But the other 20% reduced max charge range and longer charge times. Charger / card not working. Have to change charger. I was always able to charge didn’t really have major problems. Except for a trip to the UK. Most public chargers didn’t work.

EV really loose value quickly. 130 k new. Best I could get now after two years is 65k. Leasing company however offered to return the car for 3000 euro and end the contract. Sold my 45e for 85 k after two year (new 110 k)

But to conclude, I have had it with EV for now. Driving itself is great. But for now charging en charge planning for the holiday road trip is taking to much time and effort for me.

In the summer it is less of a problem. With nice weather sitting in the sun for 20 minutes and having a coffee is one. Things are different when it is cold and raining and just sitting in there ar waiting for the Charing to finish.

Was thinking to switch to an Panamera PHEV but the 550e is a much better deal. Saw a really nice frozen deep grey with 21 inch wheels.

If you don’t do any long trips anyway go for the EV. It is nicer to drive. If you take regular highway trips > EV battery range in the winter go for the phev.

Good luck on choosing.

[bmwterp]

Originally Posted by Deho

Hey, thanks for the response.

There are a few things here I want to answer:

1. Fuel cost IS an important factor here. I did the math and I spend about 280$ on fuel in long distance travels per month. With an EV cost of recharging for the same use is about 60$/month where I live (public chargers here are not expensive compared to other provinces). That's a 2640$/year difference between the 550e and i5 since both are otherwise the same price.

2. I'm good with an EV. I had both an i3 REX (for years) and a 530e. I've used the i3 for long distance travels a lot so I'm used to public chargers.

3. I will try both the i5 xDrive40 and 550e when they are available here :-) I still think it's interesting to discuss here beforehand.

Cool.

If it helps, I love my I5M60. I think electric is better for luxury cars. I love the quiet, smoothness and tech. If you want a more sporty feel, go ICE. You def give up a little there.