[H2O_Doc]

Originally Posted by G80M4

right compound but not sure about the size.

in the winter you want to run narrower, smaller rim, lower pressure.

that will maximize purchase on the ground whatever the compound.

I understand that for snow of course, but would it hold for a cold day with an all season tire in dry pavement? And if yes, I wonder what the crossover temperature might be?

[chris719]

Originally Posted by H2O_Doc

I understand that for snow of course, but would it hold for a cold day with an all season tire in dry pavement? And if yes, I wonder what the crossover temperature might be?

Run the stock sizes if you don't plan to drive in snow. Going narrower is only for snow and rain. The reason I say stock btw and not +10 255/275 is because I think you'll get better steering feel out of the more stretched front tire, which you may want because the all-season is a softer tire probably.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by G80M4

right compound but not sure about the size.

in the winter you want to run narrower, smaller rim, lower pressure.

that will maximize purchase on the ground whatever the compound.

Right, because we are all going through a foot of snow and need to sink in like an old VW bus.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by RM7

Right, because we are all going through a foot of snow and need to sink in like an old VW bus.

His advice is conflicting, too. He says go narrower (correct) then says to lower tire pressure (wrong). Lowering tire pressure will result in a larger contact patch, partially defeating the purpose of going narrower.

[G30M]

that's true i didn't clarify - my BMW door card says pressures 42-50 psi.

that's crazy when the weather is not perfect.

so mid-high 30s max i'd say.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by G80M4

that's true i didn't clarify - my BMW door card says pressures 42-50 psi.

that's crazy when the weather is not perfect.

so mid-high 30s max i'd say.

Why are you giving people tire pressure recommendations for a different car? You seem to have no clue. M2s should be 35 cold.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by chris719

Must have been something wrong with your PA4 (old mfg date?) or setup. I have both of those tires on my M2C in stock sizes on a different set of OEM wheels and I feel the PA4 is excellent and better than PSS in wet (rain) and close enough to it in the dry when it is cold. No problem at all in the mid 40s, behaves great. I swapped them on in the mid 40s and drove on them up to the 50s. The TireRack data seems to agree with my experience. I have used 7 different tires from the Performance Winter category. They have compounds very similar to all season, just a tweaked tread design and more sipes in the blocks. I've actually driven on Bridgestone LM001 as late as early June and it was surprisingly fine. I won't dispute that the AS4 is probably better outside of snow, but my experience with PA4 is not at all like yours.

This exact comparison has been done:

Nothing wrong with the setup as it was a 225/45r18 square setup. The tires were 2 months old when I bought them new from Tirerack. I rotated them every 3k miles and had an OEM alignment. The tires are just dogcrap in anything other ultra cold and snowy conditions, just like any other winter performance tire.

The PA4s were disappointing for my needs and where I live. I learned that I need to outfit my car for the most common conditions it drives in and not the worst case. The PA4s were just too much of a compromise and made the car less stable and brake worse in the cold (20+ degrees) and wet compared to the AS4s. I've run the AS4s for two winter seasons now and 6k miles so I'm well-tuned to their positives and negatives. The only real negative I've found is worse light snow traction and even then, they aren't terrible at all.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Nothing wrong with the setup as it was a 225/45r18 square setup. The tires were 2 months old when I bought them new from Tirerack. I rotated them every 3k miles and had an OEM alignment. The tires are just dogcrap in anything other ultra cold and snowy conditions, just like any other winter performance tire.

The PA4s were disappointing for my needs and where I live. I learned that I need to outfit my car for the most common conditions it drives in and not the worst case. The PA4s were just too much of a compromise and made the car less stable and brake worse in the cold (20+ degrees) and wet compared to the AS4s. I've run the AS4s for two winter seasons now and 6k miles so I'm well-tuned to their positives and negatives. The only real negative I've found is worse light snow traction and even then, they aren't terrible at all.

Not sure how to explain your experience but they are far from dogshit for me. My experience lines up with that video. I’m also not running a square or downsized setup; I’m running stock sizes 245/265 35 19. Perhaps going to the square setup or narrower sizes are part of it. Anyway, I can totally believe the AS4 is better when not snowing but my experience with PA4 is totally different.