[MontegoblueE92]

Originally Posted by galahad05

As far as technology goes...just throwing out a tidbit, some food for thought.

The BMW M3:
Power = 414 HP
Torque = 295 lb-ft.
Economy = 14/20 mpg

The Chevrolet Corvette Coupe:
Power = 430 HP
Torque = 424 lb-ft.
Economy = 16/26 mpg

GM does know how to do things right, at least some of the time.

If you want to talk about technology, you forgot to mention that the M3 does that out of an engine that is almost 35% smaller. Not to mention the M3 weighs more but is still faster. Don't make the mistake of only reading output numbers to compare GM to BMW. They are no where close. The Europeans know how to build engines.

[Mondolemite]

Originally Posted by MontegoblueE92

If you want to talk about technology, you forgot to mention that the M3 does that out of an engine that is almost 35% smaller. Not to mention the M3 weighs more but is still faster. Don't make the mistake of only reading output numbers to compare GM to BMW. They are no where close. The Europeans know how to build engines.

That's my point (and I think stressdoc agrees), it's the feel and the ultimate outcome that matters most, not the numbers. Not to mention the fact that BMW has been "accused" of under-rating HP on their engines for whatever reason. There is a certain passion that develops when you drive a bimmer that I never felt when I drove the GTO (or any other GM car).

That being said, I think the G8, CTS-V and CTS coupe are going to be beasts and will continue to push BMW/Audi/MB to bring the noise!

[grumpybear]

Originally Posted by MontegoblueE92

If you want to talk about technology, you forgot to mention that the M3 does that out of an engine that is almost 35% smaller. Not to mention the M3 weighs more but is still faster. Don't make the mistake of only reading output numbers to compare GM to BMW. They are no where close. The Europeans know how to build engines.

Ok, let's look past HP output numbers. The new M3 engine may be 35% smaller going by liters although it is 2.2L smaller then the LS3, it is actually heavier then the Corvette's LS3. The M3 motor is 445 lbs. vs. 433 for the LS3. Extra liters doesn't always mean alot of extra weight and the weight is what's really important since that's what affects the balance of the car. Next, the M3 is faster then the LS3 Corvette?? Hell, it's not faster then the LS2 Corvette. I want some of what your smoking.... There isn't an arena where the M3 is faster unless your talking about quickest to needing a new tank of gas.

Don't be sucked in by all BMW's marketing blah, blah,blah...All that technology gets you is a motor that weighs more with less HP, worse MPG and a higher cost of ownership.

[kwakr738]

I think BMW has better balance of being quick, practical, and luxurious. BMW is the only manufacturer that can combine these things better than anyone else. It is not one specific element, i.e like the engine, speed, handling, etc. that defines BMW. It is how they can balance everything to give you the least compromised driving experience. I agree that other companies are catching up, but I think BMW is still master of this formula.

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by grumpybear

that's the problem, nothing BMW is putting out right now is exciting. Nothing in the current list of vehicles makes you want it like the old M cars and other BMW's of "old". Everything (including the new M3) is too civilized and tame, it's like owning a tiger that's had it's balls cut off. Yea, it's a tiger but the thrill is gone and it acts like it. Others are now producing the thrill and people are going to start moving to them.

Please tell me you have driven the new M3 to make a statement like that and not just a 10 minute test drive.

[grumpybear]

Originally Posted by Epacy

Please tell me you have driven the new M3 to make a statement like that and not just a 10 minute test drive.

yes, I have driven both the E46 and E92 M3 at length so I am very confident in making that statement. The E46 is a much more exciting car to drive(notice I didn't say faster, I said more exciting) and it looks better. Driving the E46 feels like you have a tiger (balls intact) ready and willing to pounce at any moment. The E92, not so much. It feels like you have a tiger with no balls who will pounce, but only when you make him. To me, that's the difference between a true "drivers" car and a car built by a group who was listening the marketing department the whole time.

[cycler]

I still like the outside look of the coupes, yet the 3 series sedan and those god awful rear light have to go. That being said what annoys me the most is the fit and finish of the cars. This is my second BMW and it only have 6500 miles on it and already Im begining to hear noises coming from the back seat of the car everytime i go over a slight bump. I would expect that from a car that has 36000 miles on it and even then it wouldnt sound like that. YOu guys are right. BMW better step up their game otherwise the others will surpass them.

[add1cted2]

Originally Posted by kwakr738

I think BMW has better balance of being quick, practical, and luxurious. BMW is the only manufacturer that can combine these things better than anyone else. It is not one specific element, i.e like the engine, speed, handling, etc. that defines BMW. It is how they can balance everything to give you the least compromised driving experience. I agree that other companies are catching up, but I think BMW is still master of this formula.

Wow this is a great thread. There are certainly true "enthusiats" on this one.

I must agree with the above quote. I think there are plenty of fast cars out there and there are even more luxurius cars too, however BMW is the only that can balance both and do it well. I think the 3 series defined the category "sports sedan" and it it still currently the benchmark for that category.

Although I must admit that I'm not in love with the current production line up the way I used to years ago; in 1988 I fell in love with an E30 318, I was 8 years old then, ever since then I've always loved every generation forward (E36, E46 & E90). As I grew up I told myself that I will NOT buy a BRAND NEW car until I can buy the current 3 series (whenever that maybe). I'm now 27 years old and finally purchased my 3 series, E90 335i. I've had many debates (fights) defending my car. My point is...I know that the 335i is an awesome piece of engineering, but I'm not sure how much of my "fantasy" of the BMW brand influenced the purchased.

This maybe crazy talk but could I've really purchased a Merc or even worse some sort of Japanese import???

[ManMachine]

I finally read the article by Terry Shea. By all means, Terry is a good journalist. But I find in this article, quite a lot of the points are just too subjective.

But first things first, the article compares two AWD vehicles. Now, BMW makes good sporting machines, but the AWD drive versions are probably the most un-BMW vehicles in terms of driving dynamics. And that still handily trumps the CTS. In terms of road test, there's nothing about how they perform in the snow - then what's the point of the AWD? If the author wants to how GM has improved, really the AWD isn't the model to start with.

Although car magazines seem to decrease quality, at least they have some good test numbers 0-60, braking distance, etc. in a comparison test. (I have similar problems with the 3 series vs. TL article also.)

The author said a few things about the design of the vehicles and thinks the CTS looks better. What I don't get are two things: 1) Terry suggested the 2nd gen CTS improves the exterior looks quite a bit, but frankly the change in the design is quite minor and very evolutionary. The design change from E39 to E60 however was huge. 2) Terry thinks the 5 is the most conservatively designed BMW. I think a lot of people would strongly disagree. IMO the 5 has the strongest design language of the BMW lineup and is also the most aggressive looking sedan. Also, the author said the 5 looks like an Accord; well, that's because the new Accord literally copies the side profile and the kink.

Lastly, the author complains about he iDrive. Obviously the author doesn't own a vehicle with iDrive.

[AcMilan714]

Originally Posted by xT4iw4n3zx

the problems im having with BMW right now (and if it keeps up, im switching brands), is the dead-awful designs they've been coming out with. First with the 7 series, and then, no offense to alot of members here, the 3 series sedans, and ESPECIALLY the 1 series that just came out. The 3 series headlights are heaven-forbid, not beautiful at all.

I agree with you. I would love to have a Bmw built car and design of audi.. That would be where i want Bmw to be..

[ManMachine]

Audis have also been really plain jane... of course the R8 and the S5 change all that.

[Mondolemite]

Originally Posted by ManMachine

Audis have also been really plain jane... of course the R8 and the S5 change all that.

I agree that the S5 is a good looking car. However, I drove it at Pocono Raceway and was a little disappointed with it's performance most likely because of it's weight. It's a bit of a porker.

[spike357]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

It's not that BMW isn't dropping the ball, it's that everyone else is getting the picture and closing the gap.

The only thing that bothers me about BMW right now is the interior design - needs changing.

Agreed. Time is up on the current interior design paradigm at BMW.

[kwakr738]

Originally Posted by add1cted2

Wow this is a great thread. There are certainly true "enthusiats" on this one.

I must agree with the above quote. I think there are plenty of fast cars out there and there are even more luxurius cars too, however BMW is the only that can balance both and do it well. I think the 3 series defined the category "sports sedan" and it it still currently the benchmark for that category.

Although I must admit that I'm not in love with the current production line up the way I used to years ago; in 1988 I fell in love with an E30 318, I was 8 years old then, ever since then I've always loved every generation forward (E36, E46 & E90). As I grew up I told myself that I will NOT buy a BRAND NEW car until I can buy the current 3 series (whenever that maybe). I'm now 27 years old and finally purchased my 3 series, E90 335i. I've had many debates (fights) defending my car. My point is...I know that the 335i is an awesome piece of engineering, but I'm not sure how much of my "fantasy" of the BMW brand influenced the purchased.

This maybe crazy talk but could I've really purchased a Merc or even worse some sort of Japanese import???

Nice. My first love affair was with a e21 320i, and then later on with a E34 525i. My dad had a few other euro brands in between. Even though some other cars at home were faster, I always loved the way the BMWs drove. They were definitely a lot more fun. BMW applies this sport sedan concept to all their cars. Throughout the range, they always provide consumers with the best all around car.

I haven't owned a or driven a BMW since the E34. My dad got taken away with the SUV craze and I was disgusted. I am looking forward to picking up a 2008 335i as well. It happens to be my first brand new car too!! I am having some issues with my dealer, but I hope to be signing the papers soon. Congrats on your new E90!!

[erick_c]

I agree with most of the folks about how BMW isn't making anything exciting right now. Granted, IMO, the X5 (along with the 3coupe) are the best looking vehicles in the fleet.

Understand that the brand has grown more 'mature' and its simply trying to keep pace with the enthusiasts that are now looking for more 'mature' products. BMW's recent attempts to recapture the attention of young buyers with the 1 Series and the X6 isn't going to start a revolution (like the previous line-up E46, E39, E53, etc.) because they can now buy Infiniti, GM, Audi, Lexus, etc. and basically get more car for the money. You can see they trying to capture a new batch of enthusiasts by advertising the 1 as "Pure BMW". I think I would have like it even more if it came to North America as a 5 door diesel hatchback. 116d babee...

I agree with one member who stated that BMW isn't dropping the ball, everyone else is simply finally getting a clue and beginning to close the gap. Let's just hope that the F (5 and 7) give us something exciting and hope for the future.

I remember seeing the E46 in 1999 and saying to myself "I will OWN one of those someday". I can't seem to say the same thing for the current crop ('cept my X5 )

[Thello]

Reading this post is killing me. I defy anyone here to trade there current BMW in for a new CTS and tell me in a year that you don't regret it. Please. Going from a CTS-V to a E93 was like going from cube steak to a filet. Trust me, I'm rooting for Cadillac as well.

The thing that will kill BMW in the US is the declining dollar value.