[adc100]

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

As I have been saying for years:

Synthetic oils rank between number 1 and number 221. Conventional oils (with no aftermarket additives) rank between number 4 and number 223.

* Since the ranking of synthetic oils and conventional oils completely overlap, there is no clear distinction between their wear protection capabilities, which means that conventional oils are still far better than most people think.

I need to spend a lot more time with the report. But as great as it sounds. I already have some reservations. So far its perception. Not saying its not the best thing since sliced bread. But "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof"

[floydarogers]

I prefer the write-ups on bobistheoilguy.com. Very complete coverage, with most of the oil companies contributing mostly objective opinions.

[Soterios]

"My advice is, ignore any critics of my Blog, because they have always been wrong, and cannot be trusted. "

Is a good way to get me to be very skeptical of your 'findings'

[Efthreeoh]

Conventional oils have been in use for decades prior to the widely accepted use of synthetics (for long drain interval applications).

[adc100]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

I prefer the write-ups on bobistheoilguy.com. Very complete coverage, with most of the oil companies contributing mostly objective opinions.

That's where I found it. Believe me I will be researching this more. I am not easily swayed.

[adc100]

Originally Posted by adc100

That's where I found it. Believe me I will be researching this more. I am not easily swayed.

Conventional oils have been in use for decades prior to the widely accepted use of synthetics (for long drain interval applications).

Most syns are Group III oils. In a sense not "true syns". True synthetic oils are Group IV (PAO's) and Group V (Esters). The lines are pretty blurred. A conventional oil can (these days) handle 10K mile drains.

[chris719]

This guy is a nut and his method is not agreed upon as being the figure of merit for an oil.

[overlook637]

According to that guys testing method millions of cars should be broke. Vast majority of people use the cheapest oil and incorrect/longer oil change intervals.

In addition many of the oils he claimed are not capable of protecting an engine has had, IMO, superior testing in the form of a used oil analysis. In many cases owners have use "bad" oil for several oil changes over many thousands of miles without wear particles showing up in used oil testing.

I would take it for whats its worth, just another measurement to factor with but not base solely on.

[adc100]

Originally Posted by overlook637

According to that guys testing method millions of cars should be broke. Vast majority of people use the cheapest oil and incorrect/longer oil change intervals.

In addition many of the oils he claimed are not capable of protecting an engine has had, IMO, superior testing in the form of a used oil analysis. In many cases owners have use "bad" oil for several oil changes over many thousands of miles without wear particles showing up in used oil testing.

I would take it for whats its worth, just another measurement to factor with but not base solely on.

I understand what you are saying and don't disagree. All oils today will protect adequately

What got my attention was

8. 5W30 Valvoline Full Synthetic High Mileage with MaxLife Technology, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved (silver bottle) = 123,470 psi
Valvoline had a chart on their Website showing that this is their best oil for fuel economy and Horsepower. They also said this oil provided more anti-wear film strength than 5W30 Mobil 1, which is what I also found in my testing.

He also found the the 0W-20 QS Ultimate Durability outperformed. the 5W-20 at higher temperature which is consistent the way additives fork in getting the 5W to 0W.

I am a member of STLE (Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers ) As an engineer it was pretty much my specialty as a Maintenance Engineer.

I plan on using the 0W-20 in place of the recommended 5W-30 in my Forester XT. Of course I will suck out a sample at 2K miles to monitor the oil. If its good, I will do one at 6K and then decide if I want to drain or not.

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by adc100

I understand what you are saying and don't disagree. All oils today will protect adequately

What got my attention was

8. 5W30 Valvoline Full Synthetic High Mileage with MaxLife Technology, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved (silver bottle) = 123,470 psi
Valvoline had a chart on their Website showing that this is their best oil for fuel economy and Horsepower. They also said this oil provided more anti-wear film strength than 5W30 Mobil 1, which is what I also found in my testing.

He also found the the 0W-20 QS Ultimate Durability outperformed. the 5W-20 at higher temperature which is consistent the way additives fork in getting the 5W to 0W.

I am a member of STLE (Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers ) As an engineer it was pretty much my specialty as a Maintenance Engineer.

I plan on using the 0W-20 in place of the recommended 5W-30 in my Forester XT. Of course I will suck out a sample at 2K miles to monitor the oil. If its good, I will do one at 6K and then decide if I want to drain or not.

Lots to read but scanning through it, Liquid Moly didn't perform that great

[positiveions]

Nothing is 100% concrete. Something else come alone down the road and claim ‘this is the best’. What works for one may not work for another. That’s what I learned after owning several cars and do my own oil changes.

[Efthreeoh]

I read most of the ancillary information 540 RAT wrote in the blog. He needs to edit the blog because he repeats numerous times he's a degree'd, patent-holding mechanical engineer and he is COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT, HAS NOTHING TO SELL, UNBIASED, and HAS NO AGENDA. Okay got it - just need to read it once. SCIENTIFIC DATA IS THE ONLY THING HE IS CONCERNED WITH. Okay got it. Yet he claims his test setup/equipment and procedures are proprietary, which when publishing any true scientific data, is never claimed by scientists. Any scientific published test data validates the data by explaining the testing methodology. If he is not publishing the blog for any PROFIT MOTIVE, then he should not be concerned about protecting his proprietary testing methodology. The test data is worthless if no one knows how the data was derived. My first question is what is his control methodology for the test samples (metal bearing surfaces) he uses. For one, does he test the material for consistency? And while I'm nit picking, he needs to organize the information better, like publish a table with the left column the tested oil and the right-hand columns the test data. And he stated aftermarket oil packages shouldn't be used, yet he tests several oils with additive packages and intermixes that information in with the straight oils tested; it's confusing.

I really wanted to see what Section 25 said about oil change intervals. He states for his daily driver, he goes no longer than 5,000 miles between oil changes. He also states"

"• According to the USA motor vehicle Insurance Industry, the national average for vehicle mileage accumulation is 12,000 miles. Personal vehicles that are driven at continuous, extended, steady-state long distance cruising, totaling WAY MORE than that national average per year, are operating their vehicles under a condition that is much more ideal for an engine, than the start and stop type of driving experienced by normal daily driver vehicles. Operating an engine at continuous, extended, steady-state long distance cruising, allows for a somewhat longer oil change interval.

But, due to a lack of data for that kind of operation, I don’t have a specific oil change interval recommendation for that. Though I would not recommend going more than a couple of thousand extra miles between changes. Because beyond that point, you could well be running into complete additive package depletion, along with all the other reasons for changing the oil."

So the bold sections are close to what my E90 has seen as my daily commute for the past 11 years. My commute is 75 miles one way for a total travel time of 1 hour 45 min. to 2 hours. I sometimes stop twice, once to fill the fuel tank, and sometimes for an errand. But the engine doesn't cool by any means. But as far as scientific test, my commute is pretty good, because it is very consistent and I fill up at the same gas station (Shell) and same pump 98% of the time. My real-world test data is this, from 0 to 221,000 miles I followed the CBS OCI schedule until the CBS stopped calculating the interval (it's programmed to do that for some reason), from there on it's been 10,000-mile OCI. I've used only BMW 5W-30 LL-01 (both the original Castrol and the Penzoil/Shell new formula) and a MANN HU-816 filter. 361,000 miles on 28 total oil changes. Four (4) OCI were over 18,000 miles, four (4) over 17,000, two (2) over 16,000, one (1) at 15,386.

Not ADVOCATING long oil change intervals, or use of BMW's products, for anyone else, just publishing scientific data...

[Viffermike]

Engineers rarely possess the skills to write effectively. Heck: scientists rarely have those skills. The types of thinking and doing that go into each discipline are quite different from each other.

The fact that the man publishes on a blog and nowhere else tells you something. And the fact that he repeats himself. And the fact that his arguments aren't presented in a linear fashion -- actually, this is evidence that he's probably not a very good engineer, either, because that's one mode of thought that argumentative writing and scientific method share: linear procedure.

Mmmmmmmeh. Oil threads bore me to sleep, anyway.

[HawkeyeGeoff]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Engineers rarely possess the skills to write effectively. Heck: scientists rarely have those skills. The types of thinking and doing that go into each discipline are quite different from each other.

The fact that the man publishes on a blog and nowhere else tells you something. And the fact that he repeats himself. And the fact that his arguments aren't presented in a linear fashion -- actually, this is evidence that he's probably not a very good engineer, either, because that's one mode of thought that argumentative writing and scientific method share: linear procedure.

Mmmmmmmeh. Oil threads bore me to sleep, anyway.

Yeah I read through a significant portion of this today; it almost felt like when he did it in bits and pieces he felt the need to reiterate himself. This could be a sign that either he is old and not tech savvy or just a terrible writer. My high school english teacher would have probably taken out a good 20% of his writing and beat his bottom with a dip stick.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Engineers rarely possess the skills to write effectively. Heck: scientists rarely have those skills. The types of thinking and doing that go into each discipline are quite different from each other.

The fact that the man publishes on a blog and nowhere else tells you something. And the fact that he repeats himself. And the fact that his arguments aren't presented in a linear fashion -- actually, this is evidence that he's probably not a very good engineer, either, because that's one mode of thought that argumentative writing and scientific method share: linear procedure.

Mmmmmmmeh. Oil threads bore me to sleep, anyway.

I've just followed BMW's recommendations for oil change intervals and products for the four BMWs I've owned/own. But some people think they know better than the manufacturer...