[SonnyJack]

Originally Posted by solstice

From the rule book point of view it could be a grey area but from the point of fair racing it's crystal clear to me that a driver that is pushed by another to make a mistake and over cooking a corner should be penalized and not be able keep position by driving off the track. It's one of the corner stones of racing IMO to push your opponent to make a mistake to be able to overtake. Nico did it ( cut corners ) and got away with it repeatedly in Canada last year and it was irritating to watch, so did Kvyat if I recall correctly. They can't really have sand traps in Monaco as natural penalties of such mistakes so the ruling should be tougher IMO. If this was quali the lap would not have counted, again showing that there should be a penalty for this.

Had it happened in quali the result would have been a slower lap time so again no need for a penalty. Hamilton didn't go full throttle through the chicane. He actually lost time to Riccardo by going off.

Agree to disagree on this one.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by SonnyJack

Had it happened in quali the result would have been a slower lap time so again no need for a penalty. Hamilton didn't go full throttle through the chicane. He actually lost time to Riccardo by going off.

Agree to disagree on this one.

Full throttle doesn't matter, what matters is he couldn't make the chicane since he over coked the entry trying to defend his lead. A classic mistake pushed into by hard work of the pursuer that would likely have costed him the lead if he didn't cut the chicane.

[DaBean]

Originally Posted by DaBean

Maybe, but I don't think so. Remember what happened to HAM last year? He was on a fresh set of tires and still couldn't overtake; I see the US tires having the same issue. Ultimately, it's all about track position and not making a mistake.

Quoting myself, but this was the exact reverse of last year. HAM had track position, and could never be passed by a faster driver

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

DAMNED... ?!?!

Our poor MAX !

This makes me really sad

He needs the improved Renault engine as well !

No doubt he's good, but crashing twice in two days on a street circuit shows he's not 100% ready to compete with the big boys

Originally Posted by StatenEye

Great drive by Lewis congrats, in spite of Rosberg being significantly slower (bc of mechanical issues) and holding Hammy back to a 14 second deficit - Lewis, lucky, but nevertheless closed the gap, passed and held Ricciardo at bay.

At this point i'd love to see Rosberg replace Kimi, Ricciardo replace Rosberg and Sainz replace Ricciardo. Riccardo needs to get away from RB, first he was overshadowed, understandably, by the multiple world champion Vettel and now by a kid that crashes his toy running corners like every lap is a qualifier. Another driver that's over shadowed by the hype of his teamamte; Perez, he needs to get away from Hulk, hes faster and manages races better.

I'm not convinced that Rosberg had mechanical issues. He simply was not good enough in tricky situations to keep the heat in the tires and brakes, causing him to be slow. This shows to me he doesn't have the skills. (in addition to running his teammate off the road and whining). Is he fast when everything goes his way? Yes. Is he very diligent in preparing and studying? Yes. Does he have the natural talent and abilities found in Hamilton, Ricciardo, and others? No.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by solstice

Full throttle doesn't matter, what matters is he couldn't make the chicane since he over coked the entry trying to defend his lead. A classic mistake pushed into by hard work of the pursuer that would likely have costed him the lead if he didn't cut the chicane.

Had Lewis made the chicane it would have been like every other lap, follow the leader. There was a car lengths gap between the two going in the chicane when Ham missed the apex. The only reason it closed on exit was because he went off the dry line on wet unused circuit and hurt his drive off. I bet his lap time following the incident was quicker than lap that included him missing the chicane.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

Had Lewis made the chicane it would have been like every other lap, follow the leader. There was a car lengths gap between the two going in the chicane when Ham missed the apex. The only reason it closed on exit was because he went off the dry line on wet unused circuit and hurt his drive off. I bet his lap time following the incident was quicker than lap that included him missing the chicane.

He cut the chicane because messed up. The other option is that he planned it all along which would be worse. Don't compare the speed he went through the chicane with the speed of a well executed chicane. When you mess up the entry of any reason you'll loose enough momentum that the pursuer can get by at exit.

[mookie45]

Damn, awesome photos.

[SonnyJack]

Originally Posted by solstice

Full throttle doesn't matter, what matters is he couldn't make the chicane since he over coked the entry trying to defend his lead. A classic mistake pushed into by hard work of the pursuer that would likely have costed him the lead if he didn't cut the chicane.

Perhaps at a high speed course, but not at Monaco.

RIC spent 40 - 50 laps behind HAM and was never in a position to pass. Monaco is the same every year and the chicane played no role in RIC being unable to pass.

[six_timer]

Originally Posted by DaBean

I'm not convinced that Rosberg had mechanical issues. He simply was not good enough in tricky situations to keep the heat in the tires and brakes, causing him to be slow. This shows to me he doesn't have the skills. (in addition to running his teammate off the road and whining). Is he fast when everything goes his way? Yes. Is he very diligent in preparing and studying? Yes. Does he have the natural talent and abilities found in Hamilton, Ricciardo, and others? No.

How silly. I can probably find a dozen examples of Rosberg being strong in the rain. And he out qualified HAM half the time last year. Plus, he was faster than Schumacher. What is it about human nature, that wants some drivers to be great while others suck?

[solstice]

Originally Posted by SonnyJack

Perhaps at a high speed course, but not at Monaco.

RIC spent 40 - 50 laps behind HAM and was never in a position to pass. Monaco is the same every year and the chicane played no role in RIC being unable to pass.

You don't need a high speed course, not sure how much competitive racing you've done but this is possibly the most common way I passed cars/karts or bikes. Get them to over cook and brake themselves out of shape and lose momentum and or miss apexes, keep a bit of distance execute the feature whether it's a chicane or regular corner perfectly and sling shot pass the car in front. RIC set it up perfectly and HAM knew he would be in trouble if he tried to make the chicane, he rolled the dice and cut it and it paid off. Good for him, not so much for RIC.

That said race control is in an almost impossible situation here, the escape routes are there for a reason, to make it safer to get out of trouble, they don't want to discourage the use too much by penalizing the car and potentially cause an incident but it also has to be fair, really tough call to make especially on a street circuit. In places like Canada they can make it safe and penalize with sand traps , wish they would cause it's cheating and it sucks to watch.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by solstice

RIC set it up perfectly and HAM knew he would be in trouble if he tried to make the chicane, he rolled the dice and cut it and it paid off. Good for him, not so much for RIC.

I am not seeing where Ricciardo would have got by if Ham made the chicane. Ricciardo was not getting by Lewis either way, he was too far back. I still think missing the chicane made the situation worse for Hamilton, it actually slowed him down.

Ricciardo was more pissed about be blocked into the wall on exit, since he got better traction being on the dry line.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

I am not seeing where Ricciardo would have got by if Ham made the chicane. Ricciardo was not getting by Lewis either way, he was too far back. I still think missing the chicane made the situation worse for Hamilton, it actually slowed him down.

Ricciardo was more pissed about be blocked into the wall on exit, since he got better traction being on the dry line.

HAM was able to stay in font and and block by cutting the chicane, if he had slowed enough to make the turn RIC would have passed him on the outside, if he had not slowed he would hve been in such bad shape that he would be nowhere near the racing line and RIC would have taken him in the inside with no chance for HAM to block. As with the speed you are looking at the wrong thing, you are seeing what happened when cutting the chicane and compare it with if HAM would have executed the chicane well and you see no advantage by cutting. However the option of a well executed chicane was not on the table, only cutting it or endup in a very poor speed or out of shape unable to defend.

I can't see how anyone who looks at the objectively can say it's ok. HAM took a short cut outside the track ignoring a slowing feature and by that kept in front. There is no way in hell that is ok.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by solstice

HAM was able to be in Front and and block by cutting the chicane, if he had slowed enough to made the turn RIC would have passed him on the outside, if he had not slowed he would leave been in such bad shape that he would be nowhere near the racing line and RIC would have taken him in the inside with no chance for HAM to block. As with the speed you are looking at the wrong thing, you are seeing what happened when cutting the chicane and compare it with if HAM would have executed the chicane well and you see no advantage by cutting. However the option of a well executed chicane was not on the table, only cutting it or endup in a very poor speed or out of shape unable to defend.

Even if Ham had slowed a little earlier to make the apex, Ricciardo was not ever close enough to make an outside move.

You would have an argument if Ricciardo at least had a wheel next to Ham coming out of the tunnel.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

Even if Ham had slowed a little earlier to make the apex, Ricciardo was not ever close enough to make an outside move.

You would have an argument if Ricciardo at least had a wheel next to Ham coming out of the tunnel.

He was more than close enough IMO. Momentum carries a looong way. HAM would be losing his and RIC had plenty.

[solstice]

On another subject from chicanes I'm now officially and seriously concerned that RBR have another unbeatable monster cooking. Please say it ain't so...I'd love for them to be competetive with Benz but please no new RBR Vettel style era

[DaBean]

Originally Posted by solstice

On another subject from chicanes I'm now officially and seriously concerned that RBR have another unbeatable monster cooking. Please say it ain't so...I'd love for them to be competetive with Benz but please no new RBR Vettel style era

Lucky for us, if they do, it will be reset by the new regulations. The CryBabies complained so much about the current regulations that, by now that we have good racing, we'll see another reset and, highly likely, another dominant team who identified a loophole drive away to constant victories.

[Mtxzptlk]

Race

I've been slacking on getting these up .. a week late but.. lol