[Nkc]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I think you're fucked either way if you decide to get a divorce.

Back on topic for a sec. When I decided to marry my wife, I also accepted that she will own at least half of everything I have and will have in the future. It is the decision I made and I will live with that. Honestly without her, I wouldn't have had the drive to make a significant amount of money to support our family. Although she didn't make the money, she was definitely the reason or purpose.

Coming from divorced parents at a very young age, I knew exactly what I was getting into. Life happens, shit happens. My wife has given me much more than what money can buy. I guess what I'm trying to say is that she's worth it and if at any moment you feel she isn't before getting married, then you might as well not get married. I'm old school when it comes to family and being a man.

"What does a man do Walter? A man provides for his family. And a man, a man provides. And he does it even when he's not appreciated, or respected, or even loved. He simply bears up and he does it. Because he's a man." For you Breaking Bad fans.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Nkc

Damned if you do, damn it you don't. I think you're fucked either way if you decide to get a divorce.

Back on topic for a sec. When I decided to marry my wife, I also accepted that she will own at least half of everything I have and will have in the future. It is the decision I made and I will live with that. Honestly without her, I wouldn't have had the drive to make a significant amount of money to support our family. Although she didn't make the money, she was definitely the reason or purpose.

Coming from divorced parents at a very young age, I knew exactly what I was getting into. Life happens, shit happens. My wife has given me much more than what money can buy. I guess what I'm trying to say is that she's worth it and if at any moment you feel she isn't before getting married, then you might as well not get married. I'm old school when it comes to family and being a man.

"What does a man do Walter? A man provides for his family. And a man, a man provides. And he does it even when he's not appreciated, or respected, or even loved. He simply bears up and he does it. Because he's a man." For you Breaking Bad fans.

I agree with you completely.

[Boben5]

^^I don't know what you have but you probably didn't go into marriage with a large amount of money. To say I'm willing to give my wife half of what I accumulated before marriage without her is really pathetic. You can be married for 30 yrs and on 30 yrs and one day she says I don't want to be with you anymore. Then there goes your retirement and security blanket over a split second decision. If you can live day to day like that then God bless you.

[Nkc]

Originally Posted by benbo5

^^I don't know what you have but you probably didn't go into marriage with a large amount of money. To say I'm willing to give my wife half of what I accumulated before marriage without her is really pathetic. You can be married for 30 yrs and on 30 yrs and one day she says I don't want to be with you anymore. Then there goes your retirement and security blanket over a split second decision. If you can live day to day like that then God bless you.

"Large" amount might mean completely different to different people. I would say I went into marriage with a significant amount before and a significantly more amount after, especially for my age. But none of that really matters. Its just my way of thinking when I got married. I don't expect anyone to agree with me on this, especially from western cultures.

[Joekerr]

I'm "western" culture and I agree...

[Billup]

I'm "middle eastern" culture and I think women are only on this planet for procreation and should have no say in anything....., ever.

[Nkc]

Originally Posted by Billup

I'm "middle eastern" culture and I think women are only on this planet for procreation and should have no say in anything....., ever.

I support this message and I would also like to add driving prohibition to that list.

So bro, how you handling the break up? Your tone seems to have mellowed out a bit these couple days. You found a new source for porn didn't you? Pm me if you got something good. no nugget stuff tho.

[Devant]

Originally Posted by Billup

I'm "middle eastern" culture and I think women are only on this planet for procreation and should have no say in anything....., ever.

We both have equal policies

[Billup]

Originally Posted by Nkc

I support this message and I would also like to add driving prohibition to that list.

So bro, how you handling the break up? Your tone seems to have mellowed out a bit these couple days. You found a new source for porn didn't you? Pm me if you got something good. no nugget stuff tho.

The beginning was rough, but I have talked to her sporadically over the week, and when I try to talk to her about things, she continues with the same mentality, so I've really just been trying to focus on my own happiness without trying to make someone else happy.

The stuff I get down on is run of the mill. Younger blondes, brunettes, in the butt, things that I do, so it's not very special.

Honestly, I am just trying to dial in my own mentality and I am focusing on myself. After this year, I am going to get rid of my shit 128 and get a 911, keep the bike, buy a beater, and love life. After that, I'm trying to start my own business. My aspirations are what is keeping my fuel going.

[davis449]

First - I'm not trying to push the 1950's ideas back into the mainstream

Well it sure as fuck sounds like you are.

Wow...bitter aren't we? Ok, so if there's no reason that you can see that you should commit to a woman and you want the ability to leave at any time, can you see any reason a woman would want to put up with you and your demands?

I think you are going to be single for a very long time.

No, not co-habituating / sharing finances, I think you've made it clear that you're not interested in that.

Rather, what I was referring to is the day to day (and sometimes not day to day) demands. Day to day demands could be as trivial as you come home and she's the one making dinner the majority of the time (I presume this hypothetical woman that wants to be with you will also want to work so that she can support herself once you get tired of her), or always cleaning the house, paying the bills / mail - in general, looking after some of your day to day needs.

The non-day to day things could be having children - would that be your expectation? If you already have children from your current marriage, it could be looking after them - why bother if you are wanting to make sure you can cut and run anytime?

That's what I mean by demands...

Wow, delusional...aren't we? Though your state of "bliss" probably doesn't allow you to even imagine it, there are those of us in this world who can live happily without being married. I am right now and have been for the last three years. I love my GF, but she, her parents, and my parents know it's off the table...possibly forever. I was VERY up front about this with her when we got together and she agrees that because things work so well between us, we have absolutely no reason to go fuck it all up by getting married. Let me tell you, almost all of the married idiots I know and have talked to during my lifetime think that "the ring" is the only way to gain\have compromise\equality in a relationship (addressing you're "demands" comment). What on earth makes you think someone like ddk632 or I are not capable of having a healthy, monogamous relationship without a stupidly one-sided contract and a piece of expensive fucking jewelry?

I will preface the next part by saying I don't have kids, don't wants kids, and can't have kids (neither does my GF). That said, you don't need to be married to have all of that either. I actually know a wonderful couple in their late 40's who have been together a VERY long time (probably longer than you've been married) with a fantastic family (yes, with children, not dogs) who aren't married. Should you separate, a custody battle will rage anyway in a court of law, just as it would if you were fucking married.

So really, what's the damn point?

[Billup]

The point is women want a binding contract to your soul. That's what the point of marriage is.


And a big party so people can get wasted at open bar and fuck each other for a night with no remorse.

[davis449]

Originally Posted by Billup

The point is women want a binding contract to your soul. That's what the point of marriage is.


And a big party so people can get wasted at open bar and fuck each other for a night with no remorse.

Actually I think it's for a similar motivation as a prenup...think about it. A prenup, according to the "I would never sign it" crowd in here makes them feel untrusted and un-loved. Well, I think marriage (the contract) is there to strike fear in the heart of men who "sign" it. How the fuck is that any better or worse than a prenup?

[son_of_siggy]

Just because you get married doesn't mean that the wife automatically owns half of what you do. Where I live everything I had before the marriage is mine still. We didn't get a prenup, but discussed it.

Essentially the most solid way to do it is to have separate lawyers for each party and then sign.

My wife and I DO keep separate accounts though. #1 reason for marital issues in the US is finances. We both have healthy jobs and contribute to the monthly bills, but our money is our money. If we want to buy something jointly, we talk about it and do it. But if I say . . . want a car, so long as it doesn't affect our ability to pay the bills then it's entirely my call. Same with her. We have yet to have a money argument. Also helps that we don't have kids . . . and don't plan to.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by benbo5

^^I don't know what you have but you probably didn't go into marriage with a large amount of money. To say I'm willing to give my wife half of what I accumulated before marriage without her is really pathetic. You can be married for 30 yrs and on 30 yrs and one day she says I don't want to be with you anymore. Then there goes your retirement and security blanket over a split second decision. If you can live day to day like that then God bless you.

If this was for me, I'd say I'm aware what I will inherit one day, but that meant nothing of course then, we were students with the first mortgage. Life has gone on, both have made contributions, but I still think that if kids are to be involved, money should never be in consideration.

In my country we don't do alimony to the former spouse and we don't think people should get bent over in these, so I see this in that light. US system is just stupid. No wonder men see us women only after their wallets.

[ddk632]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

First - I'm not trying to push the 1950's ideas back into the mainstream - for reference, my wife works and I'm happy she does. I also know women who choose to be a housewife and they also are happy. To each their own, but I'm not pushing the idea that all women should only work in the kitchen.

I will take your word for it, but the post you made which I quoted really did lay out all of the things that 1950s ideals were based on. And another poster has picked up on it as well and called you out.

There's nothing wrong with wife working or not working, in and of itself. Your post had framed these things as hypothetical demands of an unreasonable man who wants someone to cook, clean, and take care of the kids while he can just cut loose at any given moment without the mythical "commitment" that only marriage can purportedly bring. I disagree vehemently with this notion. Commitment is personal; it doesn't need state enforcement.

You also mentioned that this hypothetical man would expect the woman to work since she could be dumped at any moment, and apparently for no other reason.

The truth is married or not, either person can leave at any moment. With marriage it's just much more messy to do it. Make no mistake, it is done all the time. On both sides. Men and women. Though statistically, it is women who initiate the vast majority of divorces... So the "man can cut loose at any time" argument is flawed, since it's the woman who tends to do the cutting loose that much more often. Especially when she has much to gain in terms of future financial support from a divorce.

Originally Posted by Joekerr

Rather, I'm saying that (and perhaps I'm simply very lucky - I actually know I am), my wife does a lot of little tasks around the house to make it a home, in spite of sometimes working 24+ hour shifts and otherwise working normal hours. And I don't. Or maybe that makes me a chauvinistic pig because I'm happy I don't have to deal with the bills / mail, cooking, etc. I'll of course help with chores - whatever she asks, I'll do - its not my expectation that she does everything.

But there are a lot of things that she takes on, probably without my knowledge. My guess is she'd ask herself why she is doing this if there isn't that commitment and the other's main concern in life is how can I best protect myself?

Hey that's great and I am happy for you. My point is that it's possible to have all these things without marriage.

Note, however, that this argument regarding a person's concern with self-preservation is a two sided argument.

One can say, the man (or higher income earner or higher asset holder, etc.) is concerned with protecting themselves by refusing to marry. On the other hand, one can also argue that the woman (or lower earner, person with less assets) wants marriage only to protect themselves in the event of an end to the relationship and gain financially from their time "invested" into the deal. Two sides of the same coin. Two perspectives. Both can be accurate and true depending on the situation.

Originally Posted by Joekerr

Also, I don't necessarily disagree with your statement that if you are considering a pre-nup then maybe you should reconsider whether you should get married. But that's not how I read your sentence - rather, you said "There is no good reason to get married..." and then went in to explain also that if you are getting a prenup, why get married in this case.

Ok, I also still stand by my statement that there is no good reason to get married. You still haven't named any, by the way, that qualify.

Originally Posted by Joekerr

I'm arguing that getting married is (or at least can be - to the right woman) a wonderful thing.

Yes, it can... And my argument is that one can have a wonderful thing just like it without the negative aspects associated with what it takes to dissolve a marriage in the United States.

Note I am referring to a contested dissolution of marriage; I know that there are people who are cordial and sit down over coffee and hash out their divorce. Then, they file it with the court and are on their merry separate ways. These people are like unicorns. Few and far between.

[Repoman]

Originally Posted by ddk632

Best prenup = don't get married.

Do not share finances or joint accounts with a significant other, and better yet don't cohabitate especially in states where common law marriage exists.

There is no good reason to get married and if you're already thinking prenup, you know it's not "forever and ever" so why put yourself into a situation where you might have to lose half of everything you work for (or more!) and if the marriage lasts long enough and you're in the wrong state, you could be paying alimony for a long time if you're the higher income earner.

Just not worth it.

On topic, I've heard of prenups being thrown out, wife claiming she signed under duress, etc. My understanding is that it should be signed prior to engagement, with attorney review by both parties so she cannot claim later that she didn't know what she was doing, signed under duress, or whatever.

You are so right. It's better to not even go down that path, as it can be truly expensive.

It's kind of funny how backwards the laws are today.

[Repoman]

Originally Posted by Billup

Why can't you commit to a woman without signing your life away? What does that validate? It's not like you love the person you are with any more after getting married.

Marriage is for suckers, if you think you need a Prenup, well, there's an even different word for those folks.

True. I think marriage is kind of like a threesome. It's a relationship with you, your wife, and your state judicial system.

Marriage validates nothing. I think it's really just the socially acceptable thing to do after you have been with someone for a while.

[Repoman]

Originally Posted by benbo5

^^I don't know what you have but you probably didn't go into marriage with a large amount of money. To say I'm willing to give my wife half of what I accumulated before marriage without her is really pathetic. You can be married for 30 yrs and on 30 yrs and one day she says I don't want to be with you anymore. Then there goes your retirement and security blanket over a split second decision. If you can live day to day like that then God bless you.

Hahaha... love it. I'd be salty as f*ck if I had to give up half my retirement for the rest of my life.

[MrPrena]

If I had about 25+ mil and a woman I am about to marry has less than 5%, I might do it. There are lots of diggies out there. Too many women in 30s who are still waiting for Prince on a white horse. Too bad that they can't see the reality.
Worst part is, there are women who's in 50s & married STILL WAITING for a prince on a carriage. Those low life are ready to get rid of their husband within 1 pico second.

WHen I got married, I married a person who is in similar financial situation. No prenup required.