| 02-07-2006, 04:18 PM | #1 |
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Danish Cartoon Controversy
Anyone has the actual cartoon? I can't find it anywhere.
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| 02-07-2006, 04:40 PM | #3 |
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| 02-07-2006, 05:16 PM | #5 |
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Well, last saturday on another board(the link in my signature) I replaced my Brooke Burke avatar for....
...a danish flag. Enough said. (Keep in mind I have been living in Western Europe all my life) Thank you. Robin
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| 02-07-2006, 05:21 PM | #6 |
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I don't see why they want to make cartoons about the holocaust in retaliation
seems like if you want to get back at the dutch some finger in dyke reference would be about as good as it gets, maybe a wooden shoe joke, but why bring the jewish folks into this?? oh yeah, plus IT'S JUST A STUPID CARTOON I never got all mad at a cartoon and thought, yeah I'm gonna go find that artist and cut his hands off, or I'm going to strap some explosives to myself and go blow up an art school... people are retarded |
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| 02-07-2006, 05:22 PM | #7 |
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Last edited by shragon; 02-07-2006 at 05:42 PM.. |
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| 02-07-2006, 05:23 PM | #8 | |
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| 02-07-2006, 05:47 PM | #9 |
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See, most of those cartoons meant nothing at all to me, but others would find it brutishly offensive. Unfortunately this is a case of an educated few using a solid religion to move the minds of the masses for violence, completely against the wishes of Peace Loving deities everywhere. The human race is indeed in sad shape. We can't learn from the past.
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| 02-07-2006, 06:13 PM | #10 |
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that's true Stew,
weren't we torturing some of the iraqi prisoners in cuba by doing some stuff that would have been normal to us, but to them was terribly offensive didn't we make them do an underwear only human pyramid or something? not that I make undewear only human pyramids very often |
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| 02-07-2006, 06:28 PM | #11 |
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I find the whole thing barbaric--the protesting and burning down buildings part, I mean. I don't want to offend anyone, but I really think it's time for people to realize it isn't 2006 B.C.E.--it's 2006 AD or CE (however you want to look at it.) The point is, we aren't cavemen anymore. There are civil ways of solving things these days
 The resulting riots are actually pretty ironic because the satire of the cartoons which caused the subsequent reaction, kind of proves the original point of the cartoons. I mean, I see cartoons of Jesus and God all the time and I couldn't care less, even though I'm Christian. I mean, so what? Even if it was written down in the bible "no cartoons of Jesus" I still wouldn't care because it would be a dumb rule and things that I find to be a bit goofy in the Bible, I dismiss. You cannot take everything literally in religion or our civilization will never grow. We'd never have the modern medicine if we didn't allow people to be scientists because science goes against Genesis, for example. Last edited by deutschmann59; 02-07-2006 at 07:00 PM.. |
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| 02-07-2006, 06:48 PM | #13 |
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Call me a doomsayer, but I personally believe these riots are further evidence showing a rapidly deteriorating situation in the Middle East...kind of like the "powderkeg" we've read about in history class with similarities to World War I.
Unless things are able to improve, I feel this is going to be a pretty important time for the history books, starting with 9/11. Think about all that has happened since then...oil prices have gone through the roof, there have been terrorist attacks across Europe, most people believe Iraq is on the brink of civil war, and now Iran is causing trouble with their nuclear ambitions. These riots say more to me than Muslims are just upset over the cartoons. To me, it seems like these people are trying to say that they are not the West and they don't ever want to be a part of western ideals. |
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| 02-07-2006, 07:03 PM | #15 |
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Be aware: you can be banned like the Tine bastard.
 j/kHe was accused of being racist and banned for using words "enraged" and "Muslims" together when apparentlly talking about this issue.  What do you guys think: What are the limits of freedom of speech? Also, is the freedom of speech for you an universal right, or it is culturally dependent (e.g. are Western people entitled to express the freedom of speech about Islam when being in Saudi Arabia)? |
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| 02-07-2006, 07:13 PM | #16 | |
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Oh man I hope I don't get banned! Of course, I didn't create a 3 month lie just for fun, and I don't think anything I said was racially deragatory. What are the limits of free speech? I am definitely 100% in favor of freedom of speech, but I'm from the West and that's the way we are here. There are places in the world where this is forbidden, and whether or not we agree with it, that's the way they are and we are the ones that are wrong if we think we can or should change them. We have to respect their religion. After all Islam is practically identical to Judaism. That's why I'm so interested in religion. Most people think Islam and Judaism/Christianity are two completely different worlds, but they're not. Islam had an Adam and Eve, Noah and a flood, and a prophet/"savior" figure just like Jesus! They even believe in the same God--Allah and God are the same person. In fact, according to the Hebrew Bible, Jews and Arabs are brothers...Isaac and Ishmael. |
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| 02-07-2006, 07:37 PM | #17 | ||
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http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=275 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...75&postcount=1 Ahh, whatever. |
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| 02-07-2006, 08:58 PM | #18 | |
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Anyway, like you said, whatever!  |
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| 02-08-2006, 05:45 PM | #20 |
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The cartoons were released in September of last year. They are now being used by reactionists and extremists to promote violence, hatred, and promote dividedness between the moderates and extremists.
That being said, its against Islam to show or build a statue of Mohammad. My understanding is this is a translation, to prevent idolatry or people from worshiping the statue. Nowhere does it say to "punish" those who do. Here's a great article re the whole subject: How Muslim Clerics Stirred Arab World Against Denmark Newspaper Cartoons Unite Religious, Secular Forces; Dossier Fans the Flames By ANDREW HIGGINS Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL February 7, 2006; Page A1 COPENHAGEN – When Flemming Rose, the cultural editor at Denmark's leading newspaper, published cartoons of the prophet Muhammad late last September, he got an angry telephone call from a local Muslim news vendor who said he had removed the paper from his shelves in protest. The complaint didn't cause much alarm. "We get calls every day from people complaining about something," recalls Mr. Rose. Anger over the cartoons, he figured, would flare out in "two or three days." Today, the 47-year-old editor has a security-service escort when he appears in public. He has received death threats and gets insulted by strangers on the street. His newspaper, Jyllands-Posten, evacuated its offices twice last week after anonymous bomb threats. Across the Muslim world, Denmark, a nation of just 5.4 million, has been hit by a tsunami of rage. Protesters rally daily from Iraq to Indonesia. Mobs over the weekend stormed its diplomatic missions in Syria and Lebanon. Demonstrators yesterday attacked its embassy in Iran, and security forces in Afghanistan opened fire on demonstrators, killing at least four. A boycott of Danish products has hammered some of Denmark's biggest companies. "The reaction is totally surrealistic," says Mr. Rose, whose wife has started reading the Quran to try to understand what has happened. Mr. Rose himself has consulted with experts on Islam and now says he regrets that he "didn't know more beforehand" about Islamic taboos on depictions of the prophet. The cartoon uproar has fed on wider racial and economic tension in Europe between Muslim immigrants and native citizens. Also at play is America's policy of promoting democracy, which has helped unleash a struggle within the Arab world between largely secular regimes and increasingly powerful Islamist groups. CAST YOUR VOTE Were Western media justified in publishing cartoons of Muhammad? Participate in the Question of the Day. RELATED READING • Europe's Testing Times • How the World's Press Reacted • Muslim Outrage Mounts in EU 2/03/06 • French Editor Fired Over Cartoon Publication 2/02/06 In this volatile environment, a group of Danish Islamic clerics angered by the cartoons succeeded in enlisting help from Egypt's secular government, which has been struggling to contain a potent Islamist opposition. Secular forces in the Arab world, eager to burnish their image as defenders of Islam, provided an important initial impetus for the protests, but now are scrambling to control the fury. From his office at the Islamic Faith Society in Copenhagen, Ahmed Abu-Laban, a fundamentalist Palestinian cleric, has been at the forefront of a campaign to force an apology from the paper. "This was the last drop in a cup of resentment, disappointment and exploitation," he says. Jyllands-Posten, a center-right newspaper, first waded into these treacherous waters last fall. Mr. Rose, alarmed by what he considered a rise in self-censorship relating to Islamic issues, invited Danish cartoonists to "draw Muhammad the way that they see him." Twelve submitted drawings. One mocked a far-right Danish leader, putting her in a police line-up with a turban, and another ridiculed Mr. Rose and his newspaper, labeling it a "reactionary provocateur." Others, though, poked fun at Islam. One depicted Muhammad in a turban shaped like a bomb. Another showed a turbaned figure in heaven telling ascending suicide bombers to stop because "we've run out of virgins," a reference to a reward said to await Islamic martyrs. The cartoons were published Sept. 30, which Mr. Rose and his colleagues were unaware coincided with the start of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. Soon after the angry newspaper vendor called, a second-generation immigrant phoned the paper to make threats against the cartoonists. The caller, who was quickly found by police, turned out to be mentally ill. After a few days, Mr. Rose thought the worst was over. Then clerics in Copenhagen and elsewhere used their sermons to denounce the paper. Ambassadors from Egypt, Saudi Arabia and nine other Islamic countries requested a meeting with Denmark's center-right prime minister, Anders Fogh Rasmussen. Mr. Rasmussen declined, saying the state had no right to interfere with the country's free press. Angry local Muslim leaders organized protest rallies, demanding an apology. The paper refused. In Aarhus, Denmark's second-largest city, a radical cleric gave an interview denouncing Mr. Rose and reminding him of "what happened" to Theo Van Gogh, a Dutch filmmaker murdered in 2004 by a Dutchman of Moroccan descent. Mr. Rose got a security briefing from police and had his telephone number and address de-listed. Under pressure from young radicals for results, Mr. Abu-Laban, the Copenhagen cleric at the forefront of the campaign, and several others formed the "European Committee for Honoring the Prophet," an umbrella group that now claims to represent 27 organizations across a wide spectrum of the Islamic community. (Moderate Muslims dispute this and say the group has been hijacked by radicals.) Frustrated by the Danish government's response, the committee decided after a series of meetings in October and November that "our only option was take our case outside Denmark," Mr. Abu-Laban says. There was growing interest from Muslim ambassadors in Copenhagen and their home governments, including Egypt. Mr. Abu-Laban, who grew up in Egypt and was arrested there in the early 1980s after being expelled from the United Arab Emirates for his preaching, took charge of writing statements for the group and communicating with Muslim ambassadors. He denies holding extremist views, but acknowledges hosting visits to Denmark by Omar Abdel Rahman, before his arrest in New York, where the blind sheik now is serving a life sentence in connection with the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. Mr. Abu-Laban began working closely with Cairo's embassy in Copenhagen, holding several meetings with Egypt's ambassador to Denmark, Mona Omar Attia. "Egypt's embassy played a fundamental role," he says. Egypt and other Arab regimes saw the furor as a good opportunity "to counteract pressure from the West" and "to show people they are good Muslims," he says. Ms. Attia, the ambassador, says she wasn't motivated by political concerns but by personal outrage. "I was very angry. I was very upset," she says, describing the cartoons as an unacceptable insult to all Muslims. She acknowledges meeting with the Danish clerics several times but denies coordinating strategy with them. VIDEO REPORT Watch an Associated Press report about the publication of the caricatures. Windows Media: HIGH | LOW (Player required) RealPlayer: HIGH | LOW (Player required)Keen to "globalize" the crisis to pressure the Danish government, Mr. Abu-Laban and his colleagues decided to send delegations to the Middle East. They prepared a dossier to distribute during the travels. The document, which exceeded 30 pages, featured copies of the published cartoons and Arabic media reports about the controversy. It also contained a group of highly offensive pictures that had never been published by the newspaper, including a photograph of a man dressed as a pig, with the caption: "this is the real picture of Muhammad." Ahmed Akarri, a 28-year-old Islamist activist involved in the committee, says the photographs had been sent to Danish Muslims anonymously and were included as examples of Denmark's anti-Muslim sentiment. He denies any attempt to mislead the Arab public about what had been published in Jyllands-Posten. Mr. Rose, the editor, describes it as a clear attempt at "disinformation." The first delegation left for Cairo in early December. As that nation was about to hold the final round of the first democratic election in modern Egyptian history, the government was battling accusations from some quarters of insufficient piety. Ms. Attia, the ambassador, denies that authorities tried to manipulate the cartoon issue as an electoral ploy. One member of the Danish delegation, Ahmed Harby, an Egyptian who runs a cleaning business in Copenhagen, says the trip wasn't designed to stir hatred against Denmark. It was intended, he says, to appease hotheads in Copenhagen and elsewhere who might take violent action if Jyllands-Posten wasn't forced to apologize. He says he didn't realize the dossier contained pictures the newspaper had never published. The delegation met with a special assistant to the foreign minister, with the head of al-Azhar, the Muslim world's oldest university, and with the Egyptian head of the Arab League, Amr Moussa. During a meeting with Cairo's senior Muslim cleric, Mr. Harby says, a fatwa, or religious opinion, was drafted calling for a boycott of Danish goods. The order was never formally released, he says. Later in December, a second delegation traveled to Lebanon to meet with religious leaders and appeared on television. Mr. Akarri, the Copenhagen activist, later traveled alone to Syria to deliver the dossier to Syria's senior Sunni cleric. Back in Denmark, the pressure on Mr. Rose mounted. He was warned that a security-service informant had reported that some Muslim radicals were spreading word that killing him was halal, meaning sanctioned by Islam. "It was the only time I felt cold running down my spine," he says. Denmark's government began to reach out to Muslim ambassadors and others it had earlier rebuffed. In a New Year's speech, the prime minister retreated slightly from previously strong support for Jyllands-Posten. Egypt promptly claimed credit for the modest shift and suggested in a foreign ministry statement it was ready to drop the matter. Protests elsewhere were intensifying, fanned by both Islamists and secular forces eager to prove their Islamic credentials. In Jordan, a pro-Western monarchy, Parliament condemned the cartoons as "racist and evil." Tunisia and Libya, where police regularly arrest Islamist activists and block protests, also denounced them. Late last month, influential clerics in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere called for a boycott of Danish goods. Arab consumers began to shun Danish products en masse. "Our business in the whole Middle East is at a total standstill," says Finn Hansen, head of international operations for Arla Foods, a big Danish dairy company. The chairman of Dansk Industri, a trade organization for Danish businesses, issued an open letter calling on the newspaper to explain its position, and appeared in a television debate with Mr. Rose. Last week, Jyllands-Posten apologized for causing offense, and Mr. Rose appeared on al-Jazeera and other Arab television stations in an effort to persuade viewers that the newspaper never intended to insult Islam. Its intent, he said, was to join a domestic Danish debate about free speech. Protests escalated. Returning late one night to his Copenhagen apartment, Mr. Rose slumped in a leather sofa with his wife to watch the news. It showed protesters waving signs that read "Behead Those Who Insult Islam." "This whole thing is crazy, totally crazy," he groans. "I had no idea anything like this would happen." Write to Andrew Higgins at andrew.higgins@wsj.com Crazy world
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