[Vegas_Sirk]

Originally Posted by Boost_Nation

im not making any arguements actually, except that euro> jdm

How did JDM get brought up in this thread ...?
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Roll A Joint

[Kiemyster]

yea. really. come on, lets not bring that shit in here.

but its fucking hilarious when we talk about euro vs usa. its so fucking sad. this is what the world has come to? us BMW owners even thinking they have a chance? come on. we all know BMW planned for this the day after the E60 M5 rolled off the first production line. BMW will bring something out that will rip MB, and any american car a new asshole

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by Kiemyster

yea. really. come on, lets not bring that shit in here.

but its fucking hilarious when we talk about euro vs usa. its so fucking sad. this is what the world has come to? us BMW owners even thinking they have a chance? come on. we all know BMW planned for this the day after the E60 M5 rolled off the first production line. BMW will bring something out that will rip MB, and any american car a new asshole

Like how GM's dominance fell, BMW will probably blow it sometime or later. Whether it be being outclassed in BMW's famous categories, or making truly unreliable vehicles. But, for now BMW does reign surpreme. The new CTS-V will have to prove itself. At least GM is determined though. Unlike its lazy old self.

[Carnage]

Originally Posted by Kiemyster

yea. really. come on, lets not bring that shit in here.

but its fucking hilarious when we talk about euro vs usa. its so fucking sad. this is what the world has come to? us BMW owners even thinking they have a chance? come on. we all know BMW planned for this the day after the E60 M5 rolled off the first production line. BMW will bring something out that will rip MB, and any american car a new asshole

here's your new american car (or 100K car for that matter) benchmark....asshole is a great word to use...that exactly what any new BMW (or just about any car from any maker) coming down the line for a while will be staring......this car's 4 giant asshole's....

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by Carnage

here's your new american car (or 100K car for that matter) benchmark....asshole is a great word to use...that exactly what any new BMW coming down the line for a while will be staring......this car's asshole....

Vettes have been serving European cars for years.... The 911 Turbo is a dinosaur compared to the modern vette.

To be fair, Vettes should be compared against the uber sportscars and they are exotic killers

[lvwirelessguy]

Corvettes still use leaf springs, thats pretty sad

[FirstClass]

Originally Posted by T Bone

Vettes have been serving European cars for years.... The 911 Turbo is a dinosaur compared to the modern vette.

You've got that completely backwards actually. Old-school pushrod 16 valve V8 versus the first ever gas variable geometry turbo engine? The Porsche is more advanced no contest. Plus last I checked there isn't a ceramic brake option for the Z06.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by FirstClass

You've got that completely backwards actually. Old-school pushrod 16 valve V8 versus the first ever gas variable geometry turbo engine? The Porsche is more advanced no contest. Plus last I checked there isn't a ceramic brake option for the Z06.

I am in unfamiliar terrority defending Vettes.... Forgetting how power is produced, Vettes spank 911 Turbos on the track. Vettes spank just about everything short of the Carrera GT.

Sure German engines are elegant and deliver 100hp / liter.....doesn't mean much when you get pulled down the Mulsanne straight by a push-rod.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by lvwirelessguy

Corvettes still use leaf springs, thats pretty sad

Yet, it is still whooping Ferrari's ass. The 'Vette still uses the POS old technology ancient 2 valves per cylinder OHV pushrod design. GM should get with the times and use the "newer" DOHC design right?

[FirstClass]

Originally Posted by T Bone

I am in unfamiliar terrority defending Vettes.... Forgetting how power is produced, Vettes spank 911 Turbos on the track. Vettes spank just about everything short of the Carrera GT.

Sure German engines are elegant and deliver 100hp / liter.....doesn't mean much when you get pulled down the Mulsanne straight by a push-rod.

I'm not contesting that, I'm contesting that the Porsche is not a dinosaur. The vette is the dinosaur and the 911 the spaceship.

In the Porsche's defense though, it's the same concept people use when saying how uber the 335 is. You chip and lightly mod a 911 turbo you're looking at a sickening amount of power. Not sure how the vette upgrades but I doubt it's as easy to get similar gains.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by FirstClass

I'm not contesting that, I'm contesting that the Porsche is not a dinosaur. The vette is the dinosaur and the 911 the spaceship.

We could go into the engine / drivetrain layout of the 911....something Ferdinand Porsche designed for Hitler.....

The Cayman rocks, the 911 is getting way long in the tooth.... Porsche needs to get un-religious about the rear engine layout which brings inherent handling flaws.


BTW, the bits of hardware that Porsche puts out is great but the way they package it is dogmatic.

[lvwirelessguy]

Originally Posted by quagmire

Yet, it is still whooping Ferrari's ass. The 'Vette still uses the POS old technology ancient 2 valves per cylinder OHV pushrod design. GM should get with the times and use the "newer" DOHC design right?

For those who can afford it a Ferrari does not dissapoint. I've driven a Z06 and an F430 Spyder and there really is no comparison at all. But if you are on a budget the Z06 does very well for an American supercar

[94JZA80]

Originally Posted by Boost_Nation

im not making any arguements actually, except that euro> jdm

Originally Posted by M3This

How did JDM get brought up in this thread ...?

ignorant people posting opinions about everything except the topic at hand...




anyways, back on topic, regardless of all the "talk" - and American car manufacturers sure do seem to "talk the talk" well - i can't wait to see the new CTS-V. i'm not rooting for it or against it...i'm just eager to see what it is capable of in the real world and not just on paper.

[e92man]

i dont really care becuase i would still take the m5 any day. any sedan that is faster many porsches is awesome

[Carnage]

Originally Posted by FirstClass

You've got that completely backwards actually. Old-school pushrod 16 valve V8 versus the first ever gas variable geometry turbo engine? The Porsche is more advanced no contest. Plus last I checked there isn't a ceramic brake option for the Z06.

and how do you think a Porsche, BMW, Ferrari, etc..owner driving an "incredibly advanced car built for performance" feels when a vehicle that is less "advanced" with less options available (and half the cost) spanks their ass up and down a straight line or a track???? Or when the same car drives 440-450 miles on a tank of gas because it gets 26-27 MPG cruising at 75-80 on the highway??

Do you think anyone gives a rats-ass about HP per Liter, Double-Vanos, DOHC or anything else "advanced" at that point? Fanboism aside, the answer is no. No one really gives a shit that the Z06 doesn't have a ceramic brake option, what people care about is what it's capable of and you have to spend 2X as much or more to get anything that can remotely touch it. True car enthusiasts appreciate the work in general and care more about the bottom line then the pretty lights and bells and whistles.

When it comes to overall performance value (HP, TQ, MPG) plus long term dependibility, availability of parts, ease of repair etc. find me 2 cars in the same model line, or the made by the same maker for that matter, costing $115K combined that destroy the same level of cars that the C6 and Z06 Corvette do right off the showroom floor. I'll save you the research, you can't. Hell, you have to spend 100K+ just to buy one car to hang with them. Say what you want about how "advanced" they are, the bottom line is they beat just about anything regardless of cost, period.

Food for though..If overall performance value is important to you, which car engineer would you rather have build something for you from scratch, someone who can take things that are "outdated" and "less-advanced" and makes it into something that hands everything their ass or someone who takes the best things available, charges you 2X as much for it, but still gets his product's ass handed back to him??? Who is truly more talented??

[Jonmartin]

Originally Posted by T Bone

Any dumbass car company can beat after they see it. The E60 M5 has been known since 2004 and Cadillac is going to release a car in 2009 to beat it?

Wow! Any car company can do this.....

The real sign of a good car company is their ability to set trends, clearly BMW falls in this category.

+1 and I don't think the last CTS-V Beat the E39 M5 anyway the car might be cool and all cause I like how they look but the germans own that territory.

[alidmx]

Anyone have pictures of the 2009 CTS-V?