[ToyotaBMW]

Originally Posted by Matski

Maybe because the constant bitching about dilution is not actually over-whelming and only comes from a small percentage of the BMW population.

This forum =/= the entire world, or even all BMW buyers.

BMW is trying to beat MB in selling to the Toyota crowd by cheap leases, and making cars like the X1. This dilutes the brand because you will see a BMW on every corner. Now BMW is putting M badges on these cars with M bodykits. This also dilutes the M brand.
If you see one at every corner it will no longer be special and would make it feel like a Toyota. Just like in Germany they use the E-class as a Taxi and we all made fun of MB as being a taxi.

Originally Posted by eMvy

From a pure business standpoint, this is impressive, but unless you’re simply a shareholder, I’m not sure why everyone gets so excited over news like this.

It doesn't correlate with the overwhelming number of complaints regarding brand dilution, whoring out the M badge, and in general, BMW losing its way as the ultimate driving machine.

+1

Originally Posted by Carlos_Danger

How did we get 45% more sales than last years and still MB beat us,
IS MB cooking their numbers?

Read the link below.

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

Please tell us the manufacturers who don't use this method.

Here is a link explaining how BMW rigged the sales numbers

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-u-s-last-year

[ATX78703]

interesting that x1, x3 and x5 sales are starting to all equal each other over time. not too long ago, the x5 was the only real sales factor regarding SUVs for the bmw brand. This means one of 3 things is happening (or all 3):

1) Americans are finally ok with downsizing vehicles
2) BMW has been sequentially inflating size on new model introduction, creating new size segments
3) 'Larger' BMW models are simply getting too damn expensive and the consumer public isn't willing to keep shelling out 3-5% price increases every year (exceeding inflation by a lot).

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by ATX78703

interesting that x1, x3 and x5 sales are starting to all equal each other over time. not too long ago, the x5 was the only real sales factor regarding SUVs for the bmw brand. This means one of 3 things is happening (or all 3):

1) Americans are finally ok with downsizing vehicles
2) BMW has been sequentially inflating size on new model introduction, creating new size segments
3) 'Larger' BMW models are simply getting too damn expensive and the consumer public isn't willing to keep shelling out 3-5% price increases every year (exceeding inflation by a lot).

I'll volunteer a 4th option:
4) Americans have continued to move from the 3er and 5er to the X1 and X3.

[BRAISKI]

Damn more and more BMWs on the road, its becoming common like a domestic car?

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by ToyotaBMW

Now BMW is putting M badges on these cars with M bodykits. This also dilutes the M brand.

I really hate this line. It shows a lack of knowledge of history.

The MSport packs in the US have no exterior M badges-if you see an M badge on the fender in shots, it's not a US car. They have the M logo on the wheels because they are 400 or 403M wheels.

BMW has had M badged trim levels for decades, the M-Technic for example was around on the E30, the E36 had an M treatment to the 318TI for example-from the front you could not tell one from an M3.

So it is a fallacy to claim that just NOW M is being diluted by this treatment.

[Matski]

Originally Posted by ToyotaBMW

BMW is trying to beat MB in selling to the Toyota crowd by cheap leases, and making cars like the X1. This dilutes the brand because you will see a BMW on every corner. Now BMW is putting M badges on these cars with M bodykits. This also dilutes the M brand.
If you see one at every corner it will no longer be special and would make it feel like a Toyota. Just like in Germany they use the E-class as a Taxi and we all made fun of MB as being a taxi.

BMW has to create a 600% increase in sales to catch up with Toyota, I wouldn't worry about them being that common to soon.

And really, one day you should come to Europe, maybe get a feel for how the automotive world is outside America, I think you would find it an eye opener.

[paradoxical3]

The X1 is a smash hit obviously. In part, because of the price point.

But sadly, because outside of the current M3, 1 series, and 335is, it is pathetically the best-driving BMW available. I dropped 50k on mine; could have bought a 335i easily. But it handled like shit and felt cheap compared to the X1. I drove a 328 for three months as a loaner car and was so happy to be back in the X1. It's the best of both worlds - e9x chassis, hydraulic steering, with a current N55 engine, identical weight to a 335xi, and new car warranty.

I think it's very sad that BMW has gotten to the point where a entry-level SAV drives better than the iconic 3 series does.

[Race 1]

SUBARU had very similar sales numbers

[Staszek]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

I really hate this line. It shows a lack of knowledge of history.

The MSport packs in the US have no exterior M badges-if you see an M badge on the fender in shots, it's not a US car. They have the M logo on the wheels because they are 400 or 403M wheels.

BMW has had M badged trim levels for decades, the M-Technic for example was around on the E30, the E36 had an M treatment to the 318TI for example-from the front you could not tell one from an M3.

So it is a fallacy to claim that just NOW M is being diluted by this treatment.

I agree although its more highly available now then before on more models. My 2001 E38 has the msport pack with M Parallel wheels and M steering wheel (complete with stickers).

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by Staszek

I agree although its more highly available now then before on more models. My 2001 E38 has the msport pack with M Parallel wheels and M steering wheel (complete with stickers).

Is it MORE available now?

For most any model in say 2001, whether is E46, E39(M-Sport) or 740 Sport, all could be had with M Pack goodies with similar stickers.

I don't think it's a bad thing until you get into exterior badges of M on the body itself. That is where I draw the line.

[Staszek]

Maybe in Europe, the ZHP was the first US e46 with an M type sport pack and that was in 2005. The e92 really didn't have anything until the IS versions. Sure you could order MTech bumpers but its not a cohesive package like it is in every BMW line today.

[Imola.ZHP]

Cracks me up that the x1 is considered a "car" and not a "light truck."

Congrats BMW, 3, 5 and x1 are kicking some ass!

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by Staszek

Maybe in Europe, the ZHP was the first US e46 with an M type sport pack and that was in 2005. The e92 really didn't have anything until the IS versions. Sure you could order MTech bumpers but its not a cohesive package like it is in every BMW line today.

Pretty sure you could get M logo wheels, steering wheels and shift knob on the E46,and the E90/E92 had an MSport pack too.

[Staszek]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Pretty sure you could get M logo wheels, steering wheels and shift knob on the E46,and the E90/E92 had an MSport pack too.

The wheels on the e46 yes, not the shifter or the steering wheel until the ZHP. The M sport pack came later into the e9x production. They had things here and there but it was never like all the F series where you could basically get them as a package all out of the gate. I'm agreeing with you though I don't mind them at all as long as the badge isn't on the trunk.

[ToyotaBMW]

Originally Posted by Matski

BMW has to create a 600% increase in sales to catch up with Toyota, I wouldn't worry about them being that common to soon.

And really, one day you should come to Europe, maybe get a feel for how the automotive world is outside America, I think you would find it an eye opener.

I have been to Europe many times and I do understand that the German cars are like Toyota in NA, but in NA these brands are priced at a premium and are considered luxury brands hence if you start moving the brand down market it will no longer keep its cache. This applies to Audi, MB and BMW who seem like hell bent on selling to every single niche in the market.

[NEFARIOUS]

That's awesome news... Just bought an '06 330xi 4D yesterday... Albeit a little bit behind in time but I guess I still kinda rode the trend ;-)