[Uber V8]

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/f...n-the-911.html


Just in case any of you are on the fence between the two...





"So...why the different power numbers?"

"Because the Cayman cannot outperform the 911. It's our entry-level car," he said with German matter-of-factness...

-Dr. Martin Constien, team leader for engine development



If Porsche were to give the Cayman S the same power and grip as the 911, it would trump its big brother in every test of speed. The possibility of Porsche ever allowing this to happen? We've got a better chance at a date with Kate Upton.

[keepittrill]

It's also better looking...

[Its_lobelt]

I was always a big fan of the Cayman. Amazing car.

[keepittrill]

I HIGHLY regret not getting one.

[CedarZ4]

Old news. Ever since the Cayman came out, this topic has been discussed and beat to death on Porsche forums. By design, the 911 is flawed and the Cayman is clearly superior. However, because if the Cayman outperforms the 911, then Porsche as a brand as we know it will go down the hatch because Porsche = 911, at least, what 95% of the people think.

I too, cross shopped the Z with a Cayman. Unfortunately, I was anxious to get my car and the 981 wasn't out yet. I don't regret getting the Z... but then again, a Porsche is a Porsche.

[GammaZeta]

Well, look at the recent past.

Water-cooled 911's

Non-circular headlights on the 996's

Electronic steering on 991

Engine is creeping forward more and more

GT3 is only available with paddles

911's getting wider, longer and heavier

What does that lead to..........?

The 911 becoming a mid-engined car. That's right. I'm predicting that the future of the 911 will be a hybrid of the Cayman's mid-engine placement with the 911's powerplant, steering and other guts.

The Cayman was, all along, just a primer for the eventual mid-engine 911 changeover. And it's also something Porsche almost did in the past as well. Hell, the 928, a front engined V8 was supposed to be the TOTAL REPLACEMENT for the 911.

The 911, will someday, become a mid-engined car.

[MSport28]

I personally do not believe that the 911 will become the Cayman, or vice versa, because the more important consideration is the evolution of the Cayman in comparison to the 911. When the Boxster/Cayman first came out, the 996 911 was not what the 997/991 is today. As the Boxster & Cayman have progressed, so has the 911. Even the price increases reflect that the Cayman is taking the place of the "old" 911 - Porsche has simply moved the 911 more and more upmarket, and the Cayman has followed. Porsche has reportedly long been working on a new "base" vehicle to come in below the Boxster and the Cayman, thus capturing younger buyers, and increasing sales and customer base. By the time that the Cayman ever "overtakes" the 911, the 911 will have been made even better, even faster, even more expensive, etc.

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by MSport28

I personally do not believe that the 911 will become the Cayman, or vice versa, because the more important consideration is the evolution of the Cayman in comparison to the 911. When the Boxster/Cayman first came out, the 996 911 was not what the 997/991 is today. As the Boxster & Cayman have progressed, so has the 911. Even the price increases reflect that the Cayman is taking the place of the "old" 911 - Porsche has simply moved the 911 more and more upmarket, and the Cayman has followed. Porsche has reportedly long been working on a new "base" vehicle to come in below the Boxster and the Cayman, thus capturing younger buyers, and increasing sales and customer base. By the time that the Cayman ever "overtakes" the 911, the 911 will have been made even better, even faster, even more expensive, etc.

Chris Harris makes a very interesting, and good point on the new GT3:

Basically, with the elimination of the manual option, Porsche will do whatever it takes to increase sales and to widen appeal. If that means a mid-engine 911, so be it.

[NemesisX]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

Chris Harris makes a very interesting, and good point on the new GT3:

Basically, with the elimination of the manual option, Porsche will do whatever it takes to increase sales and to widen appeal. If that means a mid-engine 911, so be it.

You make it sound like the elimination of the manual option was key in reducing sales for the 911.

Manual Porsche's are incredibly unpopular. Hell, manual high end sports cars in general are just flat out unpopular. BMW's going to get rid of the manual M5 for the same reason. Nobody buys them.

[MikeyV]

I think it boils do to a simple market split, the 911 is a GT car and the Cayman/Boxster are sports cars, they appeal to different markets and different people. I'm pretty sure the 911 will always remain rear engined as a mid engined 911 would compromise it's ability to seat 4 people.

Besides Porsche's' MP4 and 458 competitor will be mid-engined so no need to go that route for the 911.

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by NemesisX

You make it sound like the elimination of the manual option was key in reducing sales for the 911.

Manual Porsche's are incredibly unpopular. Hell, manual high end sports cars in general are just flat out unpopular. BMW's going to get rid of the manual M5 for the same reason. Nobody buys them.

No, I was saying exactly the opposite. Porsche is getting rid of the manual to INCREASE sales. They don't care about the enthusiast or purist anymore. Like Chris said, for every 1 sale they lost, they probably gained 3.

There will be a time that getting rid of the engine hanging out back and moving it to mid will be too much of a performance enhancement that they will have to do it.

[GammaZeta]

[QUOTE=MikeyV;14161580]I'm pretty sure the 911 will always remain rear engined as a mid engined 911 would compromise it's ability to seat 4 people.
/QUOTE]

Have you ever tried fitting into a 911 backseat? That's been compromised years ago. I grew up in the 80's when my parents had a 924. They used to stick me in the backseat, which I outgrew by the time I was 7 years old.

[MisterSkiMask]

[QUOTE=GammaZeta;14161761]

Originally Posted by MikeyV

I'm pretty sure the 911 will always remain rear engined as a mid engined 911 would compromise it's ability to seat 4 people.
/QUOTE]

Have you ever tried fitting into a 911 backseat? That's been compromised years ago. I grew up in the 80's when my parents had a 924. They used to stick me in the backseat, which I outgrew by the time I was 7 years old.

yes, but your dad could buy the 924 because it had s back seat.

my wife is completely against the gt3 because 'she would never get to ride in it because there are no seats for the kids' somehow it doesn't occur to her that out two car seats don't fit in the x5 without moving the front seats out of their 'normal' positions

[STALKER]

[QUOTE=MisterSkiMask;14162272]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

yes, but your dad could buy the 924 because it had s back seat.

my wife is completely against the gt3 because 'she would never get to ride in it because there are no seats for the kids' somehow it doesn't occur to her that out two car seats don't fit in the x5 without moving the front seats out of their 'normal' positions

I recently picked up my 991 C4S, its my DD. Having the rear seats was essential, because my 2.5 year old does travel with me, and that was a big reason I did not get a Cayman, plus the interior is much smaller, so not as comfortable as a DD for someone my size.

If I wanted a toy, or weekend car, the Cayman S would be hard to beat though.

[gonzo]

I would like a 991 S except for a few things that are important to me.

Cargo space / two golf bags and two adults with room up front left over with the Cayman .
One bag in the front seat or do some maneuvering to get in back. Cabrio is easier but not interested in those.

I just like hatches.

Cayman S with pasm and ptv and I would be happy.
In a perfect world I would like a 991 too.

The price differences are fairly wide also.

[GammaZeta]

[QUOTE=MisterSkiMask;14162272]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

yes, but your dad could buy the 924 because it had s back seat.

Actually it was my mom's, we had other cars, but they decided to stuff me in the back seat and didn't care.

[NemesisX]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

No, I was saying exactly the opposite. Porsche is getting rid of the manual to INCREASE sales. They don't care about the enthusiast or purist anymore. Like Chris said, for every 1 sale they lost, they probably gained 3.

There will be a time that getting rid of the engine hanging out back and moving it to mid will be too much of a performance enhancement that they will have to do it.

Oh my bad, I re-read your post again and I see what you mean now. My bad.

[EmPower]

I honestly feel that Porsche is missing out. They SHOULD have a Cayman GT3 and a Turbo at the very least. If nothing else make them limited runs and see the public's reaction. i guarantee there will be buyers lining up, and they will not interfere with the 911 sales and even if by some chance they do, they will win on volume alone making the 911 even more exclusive.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by EmPower

I honestly feel that Porsche is missing out. They SHOULD have a Cayman GT3 and a Turbo at the very least. If nothing else make them limited runs and see the public's reaction. i guarantee there will be buyers lining up, and they will not interfere with the 911 sales and even if by some chance they do, they will win on volume alone making the 911 even more exclusive.

As it stands now, a Cayman S will not outrun a 911 Carrera on a track or (at least according to Porsche) in a straight line. You can count on a Cayman GT3 or Turbo handily outrunning many 911's though. I'd love to see it, but suspect that the marketing department will not let it happen.

[nicknaz]

BMW puts skinnier tires on 135 than 335, doesn't offer mechanical limited slip on non m models and cancels 1M right after it beats M3 around hockenheimring, so BMW is right there with Porsche to ensure the brand's "performance hierarchy" based on model designation is kept intact.

[gonzo]

SharkWerks is probably working on a tune, if not already available.

SpeedArt has several being offered now.
I think the 365 or 400 version would be nice to take a whirl in.