[PsychDoc]

I've spent a lot of time in M-B cars. And from a quick glance they do look very upscale and premium. That is clearly what drives their design esthetic. But when you tap on or press the surfaces you quickly realize that, in this case, beauty is only skin deep. Underneath the premium look, things are really plastickly and they are not finished with the tightest tolerances.
BMW, OTOH, often seems to skip the quick premium looking aesthetics but everything in their cars that really matter seem to be put together in a way that's rock solid and built to last. I've owned two previous 5 series ('11 F10 and '17 G30) over a period of 13 years and they have been rock solid. My repair experience has been one coolant hose leak and a malfunction of the automatic open/shut slats behind the grill. Both were fixed for under $2000. Not too shabby for cars owned out of warranty over a 13 year period.
Sure, it might be nice if BMW provided more cushy lower door cards, double stitching here or there and similar things but I'll happily take their quality of workmanship and attention to things that really matter. My office partner had a 2021 E class and hated it. Traded it in for a 2023 530e which he loves. Says you can't even begin to compare the quality of construction and smoothness of the two vehicles.
I just wish we could focus on the things that really matter.

[AP]

I guess we all have different priories in what we want out of a car

You could argue we don’t need a car like a 5 series at all, there are plenty of other cars that are a lot cheaper that get you from A to B .

I think for the price, it’s right to expect good quality .
I have a g30 m550 which I got last year , the g60 didn’t appeal for a multitude of reasons.
I was having the oil changed this morning and had the oppotunity to sit in a m60 in the showroom.
Like the one I sat in in Munich last year , it just didn’t do it for me.
I’m not sure what options were on it but it was up for sale for £114k.
Whilst this arguably the natural successor to the m550 , certainly in terms of performance. I just can’t where that money has gone comparing to my car which was loaded up. Even account for inflation. The interior certainly did not feel better quality .
Weird thing , whilst I was able to adjust the steering wheel, the seat controls did not seem to work . Does the car need to be powered up to do that? The seat felt a little low aswell
Bmw don’t offer Alcantara headlining (will they?) so the headlining doesn’t feel it look special

It’s not all negative and whilst I haven’t driven it, the review state the ride is good

I’ll stick with my m550

[WillyFast]

Here's my take on the G60's interior design.

For context, I had been driving a Lexus for a while, but it was time for a change. I test-drove the G60 model. Although it didn't impress initially, it was still better than competitors like the Audi. Without the delivery issues, the new E-class could've also been a contender. After much thought, I chose the new 5er.

While my initial interactions with the car at the showroom and test drive were not very revealing, I began to appreciate it more as I spent more time with it. The car's interface and design all made sense to me. I compare the experience of sitting in a new 5-series in a showroom to testing a new iPhone with power off. It's just a sleek brick; you cannot interact with it as designers intended.

Now, my wife's 2022 X5, which was already superb compared to Lexus, feels outdated in interior design.

[PsychDoc]

Originally Posted by WillyFast

Here's my take on the G60's interior design.

For context, I had been driving a Lexus for a while, but it was time for a change. I test-drove the G60 model. Although it didn't impress initially, it was still better than competitors like the Audi. Without the delivery issues, the new E-class could've also been a contender. After much thought, I chose the new 5er.

While my initial interactions with the car at the showroom and test drive were not very revealing, I began to appreciate it more as I spent more time with it. The car's interface and design all made sense to me. I compare the experience of sitting in a new 5-series in a showroom to testing a new iPhone with power off. It's just a sleek brick; you cannot interact with it as designers intended.

Now, my wife's 2022 X5, which was already superb compared to Lexus, feels outdated in interior design.

My reasons for passing on the W214 were (in no particular order) massive delivery delays (still not clear if it'll arrive in the USA before the Fall), not loving the interior lighting - - too "in your face/Tokyo at night," too many gatgety things like door handles that extend from the car electrically, you just know that things like that will break when there's rain that freezes and the motors can't handle pushing those door handles out, questionable interior quality of components and switches, significantly inferior reliability over time compared to the BMW (I own my cars and drive them for ~7 years largely out of warranty) and exterior design that's on the bland side. Mind you, I'm not thrilled with the front design of the G60, but overall it's bold and, like the F10, I think it will be more and more accepted and admired over time.

[RichardInCA]

Originally Posted by WillyFast

Here's my take on the G60's interior design.

For context, I had been driving a Lexus for a while, but it was time for a change. I test-drove the G60 model. Although it didn't impress initially, it was still better than competitors like the Audi. Without the delivery issues, the new E-class could've also been a contender. After much thought, I chose the new 5er.

While my initial interactions with the car at the showroom and test drive were not very revealing, I began to appreciate it more as I spent more time with it. The car's interface and design all made sense to me. I compare the experience of sitting in a new 5-series in a showroom to testing a new iPhone with power off. It's just a sleek brick; you cannot interact with it as designers intended.

Now, my wife's 2022 X5, which was already superb compared to Lexus, feels outdated in interior design.

Your iPhone analogy is spot on here.

[AP]

At the end of the day , if you like it, you buy it, if you don’t , you don’t.

What’s been Interesting is how controversial this model has been , although to be fair that’s a trait for quite a few recent BMWs!

[RJH52]

I was considering buying a used M550i or an M5 to have the power. The only visual thing I prefer in the G30 is stitching on doors and dash. Thats it.

Personally, I think it looks too bland (not ugly) on the front. The navigation screen seems like it was an afterthought so they just plopped it on the dash. This is all personal preference of course. I think BMW knocked it out of the park with the styling of the G60.

[PsychDoc]

Originally Posted by RJH52

I was considering buying a used M550i or an M5 to have the power. The only visual thing I prefer in the G30 is stitching on doors and dash. Thats it.

Personally, I think it looks too bland (not ugly) on the front. The navigation screen seems like it was an afterthought so they just plopped it on the dash. This is all personal preference of course. I think BMW knocked it out of the park with the styling of the G60.

Love the way they did the headlights and the taillights. The kidney grill just looks kind of weird and that radar thing looks particularly bad. Again, subjective I know.

[RJH52]

Originally Posted by PsychDoc

Love the way they did the headlights and the taillights. The kidney grill just looks kind of weird and that radar thing looks particularly bad. Again, subjective I know.

I will admit no visible exhaust bothers me…

[agorski]

Originally Posted by PsychDoc

that radar thing looks particularly bad. Again, subjective I know.

That's what the non-MSport version is for. No radar thing the size of a license plate and no piano black gloss trim. I don't mind the aluminum "blades" at the rear.

[Scrapula]

I’m pretty old and remember my father’s Mercedes being very stark and utilitarian inside. BMW was the same. Form and function over luxury. I think it was Lexus who made the German manufacturers start putting in features like leather wraps. Now, it more of who can out bling the other. I love the tech in my car and am not worried about leather on the lower doors or dash. The fit and finish are superb with zero squeaks.

[deutsch100]

Originally Posted by Scrapula

I’m pretty old and remember my father’s Mercedes being very stark and utilitarian inside. BMW was the same. Form and function over luxury. I think it was Lexus who made the German manufacturers start putting in features like leather wraps. Now, it more of who can out bling the other. I love the tech in my car and am not worried about leather on the lower doors or dash. The fit and finish are superb with zero squeaks.

100% Mercedes in the past, especially 60s, 70s and 80s, always had BMW beat in terms of build quality, reliability, longevity and materials used. But, not saying BMW was bad by any means....but 1980s BMWs were a maintenance headache, whereas Mercedes would go 200,000 miles w/o a hiccup (usually).

BMWs and Benz of yesteryear were build almost like tanks and yes more utilitarian, and were designed thinking people would keep them for decades. And they did, and their profits were horrible, and this is how bling, ultra luxury and trying to out do each other came to be!

My 2022 5 Series was amazing. I feel my 2024 5 Series is AMAZING.

[wagonallterrain]

It seems that where you are located is also a huge factor influencing people's views on the i5s. The pricing strategy is the big contributor here. I see a lot of folks in the UK are saying this car is out of whack in terms of value for money, and that is probably true in the UK given the other EV options available. In the US though, it's pretty clear that i5 is the winner of the segment in a lot of ways, including pricing. I'm not saying the $90K is cheap, but when you compare it with other EV options, it's a pretty good value proposition from a reliable brand.

[Scrapula]

[QUOTE=wagonallterrain;30873111]It seems that where you are located is also a huge factor influencing people's views on the i5s. The pricing strategy is the big contributor here. I see a lot of folks in the UK are saying this car is out of whack in terms of value for money, and that is probably true in the UK given the other EV options available. In the US though, it's pretty clear that i5 is the winner of the segment in a lot of ways, including pricing. I'm not saying the $90K is cheap, but when you compare it with other EV options, it's a pretty good value proposition from a reliable brand.

Absolutely. Europe has way more choices, including some decent cars from China.
Then factor in the salary difference, which is much higher for the same job, and our taxes are a lot lower, even though people complain about them. The average software engineer in London makes 65,000 pounds, which is around 83,000 dollars. In Seattle, where I live, it’s around 135,000.

People who buy EVs in the US live in cities, which again, has higher salaries than rural areas. But, we all pay the same price for a car.

[PsychDoc]

€113,000 for an E class??? That's $122k...for an E class?
That's insane. For that kind of money you can get a Porsche Panamera Turbo. Nuts.

[OHV_44]

Originally Posted by Scrapula

Then factor in the salary difference, which is much higher for the same job, and our taxes are a lot lower, even though people complain about them. The average software engineer in London makes 65,000 pounds, which is around 83,000 dollars. In Seattle, where I live, it’s around 135,000.

People who buy EVs in the US live in cities, which again, has higher salaries than rural areas. But, we all pay the same price for a car.

In Germany it starts at around €50,000. Ascending trend.
High taxes and relatively high car prices. If you put a lot into the small 520i, you'll end up with over €100k.

[Mac545]

[QUOTE=Scrapula;30873518]

Originally Posted by wagonallterrain

It seems that where you are located is also a huge factor influencing people's views on the i5s. The pricing strategy is the big contributor here. I see a lot of folks in the UK are saying this car is out of whack in terms of value for money, and that is probably true in the UK given the other EV options available. In the US though, it's pretty clear that i5 is the winner of the segment in a lot of ways, including pricing. I'm not saying the $90K is cheap, but when you compare it with other EV options, it's a pretty good value proposition from a reliable brand.

Absolutely. Europe has way more choices, including some decent cars from China.
Then factor in the salary difference, which is much higher for the same job, and our taxes are a lot lower, even though people complain about them. The average software engineer in London makes 65,000 pounds, which is around 83,000 dollars. In Seattle, where I live, it’s around 135,000.

People who buy EVs in the US live in cities, which again, has higher salaries than rural areas. But, we all pay the same price for a car.

In UK we also have salary sacrifice tax saving lease deals through companies we work for.
I’m an air traffic controller, and as I’ve mentioned in another post, it’s cheaper through my company to lease an i5 M60 (£101k) compared to a nearly new M5 worth £75k. In fact I did the maths, and it’s cheaper than a new £47k Honda Civic Type R…….go figure ����*♂️

*buying with finance the M5 or Honda. (You can only get the tax saving on fully electric vehicles)

[OHV_44]

For example, I gave up on a company car years ago. And now I get more salary. Much more.
I am an insurance specialist with €1x2k p.a. and can now get the car whenever and however I want.

[SpaceSilver.X1]

Originally Posted by OHV_44

For example, I gave up on a company car years ago. And now I get more salary. Much more.
I am an insurance specialist with €1x2k p.a. and can now get the car whenever and however I want.

in Europe, do company cars come with drivers? companies in the US rarely provide company cars.

getting more salary by giving up company cars... that reminds me of what I posted a long time ago on an airline forum:

the last company that I worked for allowed me to travel in international business class on flights over 6 hours. if the flight is over 10 hours(to Asia and Australia, for example), I was allowed to take international first class, if offered by the airlines on those routes.

however, one nice "perk" was that we were allowed to fly economy but the company would still allow us to keep the fare difference, provided that we had no scheduled meetings or any other business activities within 24 hours of arriving at the destination.(to ensure that we were fully rested)

On TPAC routes, the difference between economy and business or first class was quite significant. Unrestricted economy class ticket and business class ticket usually had a fare difference of over $3000 to $5000 each way. I usually chose to fly economy on the return and the company reimbursed me for the business class fare, which meant that I got to keep almost $5000.

Multiply this by 8 or 10 TPAC roundtrips that I had to take every year, basically once every month, while working there for almost 7 years, that amounted to, well, a lot of money. At least $30,000 extra per year and yes, it was treated as taxable income, but I was happy about it.

[OHV_44]

In Germany, a company car is almost normal from a certain salary level. However, the company often sets conditions as to which car you can drive. Not for us, but my boss didn't want to have many company cars anymore.

BTW: I pay for business flights privately. The last ones went to Cape Town. Great wine and good food. You can also drive a BMW.
Sry 4 OT.

[RichardInCA]

Originally Posted by SpaceSilver.X1

in Europe, do company cars come with drivers? companies in the US rarely provide company cars.

In the UK, it used to be just that the car would be provided by the company as a benefit if you either required to use a car as part of your job or were of a certain seniority. Not the same thing as providing a personal chauffeur driven limo though.

[Mac545]

Originally Posted by OHV_44

In Germany, a company car is almost normal from a certain salary level. However, the company often sets conditions as to which car you can drive. Not for us, but my boss didn't want to have many company cars anymore. r

BTW: I pay for business flights privately. The last ones went to Cape Town. Great wine and good food. You can also drive a BMW.
Sry 4 OT.

I’m not talking about a company car….in UK you can lease a car with tax breaks.
It’s called the Low Emissions Car Scheme- almost ANY electric car is available. You set the years you want it for and how many annual miles you drive…
The cost of lease is taken out of your salary BEFORE tax is applied….
As I’m a 45% tax payer (in UK over £150k salary, although now £128k) then I save that amount roughly.
My i5 M60 costs £1700 gross, but only £950 net per month.
And that includes insurance, servicing, tyres, car tax, no deposit, basically all maintenance.