[JasonDot]

Top Gear Source

"The new boss of Jaguar (and Land Rover) Thierry Bolloré has today announced a big, shiny new plan with a really big, shiny new headline announcement: from 2025, Jaguar will only sell electric cars."

Bold move considering the iPace didn't so well, right!? Here is San Diego, Jaguar doesn't have a big footprint, how about in your area?

[mkoesel]

It's not difficult to see why this move makes sense for Jaguar. One could easily imagine their ICE vehicle business not making it past 2025 anyway. They have been cutting models left and right, and nothing in their current lineup achieves anything resembling impressive sales volume.

Hopefully Jaguar will find a way to incorporate an electric sports car into their future. They've a long history or making beautiful, exciting vehicles. Maybe the transition to electric power will help them achieve the reliability to go with that.

[overcoil]

If jaguar is still owned by Tata 2025. BY 2025 Jaguar may be a lower priced sub-brand of Bentley if I had to guess.

[Murf993]

That seems like sad news to me.

[FinalRenegade]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

If jaguar is still owned by Tata 2025. BY 2025 Jaguar may be a lower priced sub-brand of Bentley if I had to guess.

VW owns Bentley though, Jag haven't made a vehicle to even compete with other Germans (Audi, MB, BMW) first, don't see them earning any praise in the future as a "luxury" automaker

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

If jaguar is still owned by Tata 2025. BY 2025 Jaguar may be a lower priced sub-brand of Bentley if I had to guess.

The last thing VAG needs is more brands to manage. While they could theoretically let Bentley go, thereby leading to a tie-up with Jaguar under someone else’s control, that would be a heck of a left field scenario to predict right now unless you have some very nuanced inside info.

[Alfisti]

I will never understand why Jaguar struggle so much. This last generation, say last 10 years, the cars looked great and went hard, but the interiors were poor.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I will never understand why Jaguar struggle so much. This last generation, say last 10 years, the cars looked great and went hard, but the interiors were poor.

If I had to take a wild guess, their past shadow of bad reliability never left, even if the modern ones are good.

Consumers in this demographic generally goes to the Germans, and Brits just never seem to be able to establish themselves in this mid price luxury range.

Also, depreciation likely is a factor... It's unbelieveable how hard they drop after just a few years.

Agree it is a shame, XE, XF, F Type, F Pace are beautiful cars, and I actually like the I pace, thought of the F pace for the wife for awhile, but like most majority of consumer, the worry of reliability, and the need to likely visit specialists to fix it made me move away from them.

E pace on the other hand looks VERY odd.

[cfm56d7b]

The transition to all-electric car portfolio is a huge bet for Jaguar, and for that matter any car manufacturer.

If executed correctly, Jaguar could create a profitable corner in the ever-becoming-more-competitive market segment.

Huge bets can succeed. I hope Jaguar understands that execution across many dimensions (not just design language) will be essential.

Of all the Jaguar vehicles, F Pace SVR is the most appealing to me.

The automotive world needs competition. I'd like to see Jaguar succeed.

If anyone from Jaguar is reading this thread, please take the time to examine the rise and fall of GM's 'other huge best' called Saturn. Disregarding the ICE engine for a moment, the rest of Saturn's story has many sobering lessons applicable even in today's world. The first one: huge bets led by individuals with questionable leadership skills rarely succeed.

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

RIP XJ. It was so close to production ready too.

Wow. I had to google your statement, because I was a sure you were confused.

I'd love to go into a Jaguar dealership this week and get a Xj, but reality prevents.

[Germanauto]

That has to be some serious mismanagement for them to have spent years and millions developing this new EV XJ only to cancel the project.

Jaguar has been an irrelevant company for the better part of 30 years. Hearing of ICE cars getting killed off saddens me, but maybe this is what Jaguar needs in order to reinvent themselves into a relevant automaker.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

That has to be some serious mismanagement for them to have spent years and millions developing this new EV XJ only to cancel the project.

I think what doomed it is that it was not a dedicated EV, but instead relied upon a combined ICE/PHEV/BEV strategy (similar, incidentally, to what BMW intends to do). Since they've now decided that their business will be better served by exiting the ICE market in 2025, it did not make sense to release new ICE products in 2021 resulting in what would be much shorter lifespans than the business case originally planned for. In other words, the economics of the vehicle program fell apart.

This is not the last time we'll see this kind of "Oh shit! We mis-steered the ship!" reaction in the coming decade. Disruption is a ruthless foe. JLR is not out of the woods yet, but they've probably given themselves a fighting chance. Other lower volume players may need to make similar moves, and/or consider mergers.

[David70]

Interesting to see how poorly Jaguar is doing now. When Tata purchased them from Ford people kept saying how this was how it should have been done and Ford was the problem, now they seem to back on the path to not existing. Having a car almost completed and deciding to can it is a massive mistake.

I think the EV market will be tough for manufacturers like Jaguar. The problem is when you read a review on the drivetrain it is range and acceleration only. No transmission and the completely silent emotionless electric motor make it hard to love or hate any drivetrain. The differentiators between a Jaguar/MB/BMW/Audi or the more mainstream brands are only getting smaller and the low volume higher cost of the smaller brands make it difficult to survive. I have doubts about how BMW will survive long term against someone like VW/Audi as the scale of their production is so much better.

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by David70

Interesting to see how poorly Jaguar is doing now. When Tata purchased them from Ford people kept saying how this was how it should have been done and Ford was the problem, now they seem to back on the path to not existing. Having a car almost completed and deciding to can it is a massive mistake.

I think the EV market will be tough for manufacturers like Jaguar. The problem is when you read a review on the drivetrain it is range and acceleration only. No transmission and the completely silent emotionless electric motor make it hard to love or hate any drivetrain. The differentiators between a Jaguar/MB/BMW/Audi or the more mainstream brands are only getting smaller and the low volume higher cost of the smaller brands make it difficult to survive. I have doubts about how BMW will survive long term against someone like VW/Audi as the scale of their production is so much better.

You bring up a lot of good points.
Some time back, maybe late 2020, Toyota CEO commented on how pure electric car were ‘hype’. I think the infrastructure to charge and where the masses of people park their cars leaves a lot of questions for pure electric vehicles. And are we being over confident that batteries can increase in ‘useful’ range and decrease in ‘acceptable’ charge times.

And compare a BMW X3 or Mercedes E-class All-Terrain wagon to other similar vehicles in those price range and the BMW and MB products are very high quality.

If mild hybrid through small batteries and double duty starter motors could allow pure electric propulsion in city centers for a majority of inner city vehicles and we keep up with ever increasing emissions standards for ICE engines. Then having consumer choice and not outlawing ICE, which at this point can always be rescinded in jurisdictions that propose ICE bans, then most manufacturers can stay viable.

Maybe with the pandemic personal vehicles commutes will be a better choice than public transportation.

[IllSic_Design]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

That has to be some serious mismanagement for them to have spent years and millions developing this new EV XJ only to cancel the project.

Jaguar has been an irrelevant company for the better part of 30 years. Hearing of ICE cars getting killed off saddens me, but maybe this is what Jaguar needs in order to reinvent themselves into a relevant automaker.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I think what doomed it is that it was not a dedicated EV, but instead relied upon a combined ICE/PHEV/BEV strategy (similar, incidentally, to what BMW intends to do). Since they've now decided that their business will be better served by exiting the ICE market in 2025, it did not make sense to release new ICE products in 2021 resulting in what would be much shorter lifespans than the business case originally planned for. In other words, the economics of the vehicle program fell apart.

This is not the last time we'll see this kind of "Oh shit! We mis-steered the ship!" reaction in the coming decade. Disruption is a ruthless foe. JLR is not out of the woods yet, but they've probably given themselves a fighting chance. Other lower volume players may need to make similar moves, and/or consider mergers.

It was killed for a mix of old platform, at capacity for facility that builds those platforms, can't build at other facilities, etc.. Here's the article that explains it pretty well; https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-...e-last-minute/

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by IllSic_Design

It was killed for a mix of old platform, at capacity for facility that builds those platforms, can't build at other facilities, etc.. Here's the article that explains it pretty well; https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-...e-last-minute/

That explanation surely can't be evidence of a company that has their sh-t together.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by IllSic_Design

It was killed for a mix of old platform, at capacity for facility that builds those platforms, can't build at other facilities, etc.. Here's the article that explains it pretty well; https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-...e-last-minute/

Thanks for posting that.

So, Jaguar no longer has the production capacity to build vehicles on their combined EV/ICE MLA vehicle architecture that the XJ was based on. And the primary reason for that is, with the decision to go all electric by 2025, they need to redirect that capacity to build vehicles on the dedicated EV EMA architecture.

At any rate, the mixed powertrain strategy is what ultimately killed it. Hindsight is 20/20, but it sure is a shame that Jaguar didn't go all in on the XJ and engineer it around the EMA architecture to begin with. That wouldn't guarantee success - as pointed out in the article, it's a very competitive market segment - but assuming the range was there they might have had an interesting competitor to the Model S, Air, and EQS.

It's going to be interesting to see, as EV sales climb over the next few years, whether sedans are able to claw back market share from SUVs. Theoretically, the SUV/sedan mix in the overall market shouldn't be influenced much by drive type. Will it hold practice, though?

[AlexFL]

Let’s face it. The only way any British car manufacturer can survive long term is by being wholly owned by a German giant. Sorry, my British fellows, but this is the truth.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

Let’s face it. The only way any British car manufacturer can survive long term is by being wholly owned by a German giant. Sorry, my British fellows, but this is the truth.

Morgan is the exception to that rule

Predating Jaguar, predating Bentley, predating Aston Martin

always family run but now since 2 years now owned by an italian investment group.....
Oh boy

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

I believe the statement by Jaguar is being misunderstood so I'll translate... Jaguar won't offer any vehicles that are ICE ONLY after 2025. Most Jaguars will still have a fuel door beyond 2025.

[R N M]

Jaguar is lost as a brand- putting an EV into their cars wouldn’t make them any more desirable.

Meanwhile Land Rover is doing great and just introduced a V8 Defender!

[DPelletier]

sad news; I still miss my F type sometimes......oh well, bought a new Range Rover Sport HST P400 on Saturday. :-)



Dave