[The Automotive Enthusiast]

I'm going to be honest, I can't tell you how happy I am to have grown up in the days of the e36. I got to experience what a raw BMW felt like. Oh, and they had the classic Hoffmeister kink. Something that people will soon forget as BMW seems to be phasing it out of their designs all together.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by The Automotive Enthusiast

I'm going to be honest, I can't tell you how happy I am to have grown up in the days of the e36. I got to experience what a raw BMW felt like. Oh, and they had the classic Hoffmeister kink. Something that people will soon forget as BMW seems to be phasing it out of their designs all together.

As sad as I am about the state of BMW over the past decade, I'm also happy I at least experienced the good days. I'm in my late 20s so while I missed out on the E36s of the world, I still grew up with a lot of good BMWs!

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

As sad as I am about the state of BMW over the past decade, I'm also happy I at least experienced the good days. I'm in my late 20s so while I missed out on the E36s of the world, I still grew up with a lot of good BMWs!

Actually, you’re living the best days of BMW. Until approximately a decade ago, BMW were unreliable and unsafe cars with boy racer kind of feel. Then they progressively got better and now they’re better than they’ve ever been.Things that didn’t exist before like: comfort, reliability, security, efficiency, technology comes as standard now in addition to much better performance.

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/bmw/3-series/15459





E36 is pretty much a moving casket, very unreliable, very bad in terms of build quality and materials, very unstable and doesn’t have 50-50 weight distribution that started with E46. So unless you have nostalgic feelings, E36 is a tractor compared to G20. And E39 M5 is less aggressive and slower than my 540i and floatier and softer than a 530i without an M sport package. If millennial sees all the nonsensical praise for old cars here then goes ahead and drives one, he would be severely disappointed.(Maybe except E46)

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

Actually, you’re living the best days of BMW. Until approximately a decade ago, BMW were unreliable and unsafe cars with boy racer kind of feel. Then they progressively got better and now they’re better than they’ve ever been.Things that didn’t exist before like: comfort, reliability, security, efficiency, technology comes as standard now in addition to much better performance.

Better than ever is both subjective and objective though.

Objectively better, sure. For all the things you mentioned.

Subjectively though, I'm not so sure. Especially M models had just the right balance of luxury and sport. We're to a point now, IMHO that have tipped more for luxury than sport. What do I base that one? They're bigger, heavier, more expensive than ever before.

The E9X generation was when the scales began to tip in the wrong direction. The F8X generation tipped it back a bit in some areas and further buried the needle in the other direction.

The G8X continues to bury that needle. Bigger, heavier, more tech. I have no doubt though the G8X will beat the F8X in performance metrics. Just like every generation did to the previous.

Faster around the 'Ring isn't the end all, be all metric to what makes a BMW a BMW. From the way the G8X looks, too many sacrifices were made whether that be made in the name of performance, being "bold", or just trying to be different that they managed to kill what made an M car in the first place.

An M car, especially the M3, was never about being the loudest looking car on the road. It looked like almost every other 2-door or sedan with some minor aesthetic changes so that those who knew understood they weren't just looking at another grocery getter.

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

E36 is pretty much a moving casket, very unreliable, very bad in terms of build quality and materials, very unstable and doesn’t have 50-50 weight distribution that started with E46. So unless you have nostalgic feelings, E36 is a tractor compared to G20. And E39 M5 is less aggressive and slower than my 540i and floatier and softer than a 530i without an M sport package. If millennial sees all the nonsensical praise for old cars here then goes ahead and drives one, he would be severely disappointed.(Maybe except E46)

And I would rather have an E39 M5 than your 540i. I could care less if you blew by me. Actually, the E39 M5 is what got me hooked on M cars long ago.

It's not all about being the fastest. There was something different about M cars back then. That's not being nostalgic, it's the truth.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

Actually, you're living the best days of BMW. Until approximately a decade ago, BMW were unreliable and unsafe cars with boy racer kind of feel. Then they progressively got better and now they're better than they've ever been.Things that didn't exist before like: comfort, reliability, security, efficiency, technology comes as standard now in addition to much better performance.

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/bmw/3-series/15459

E36 is pretty much a moving casket, very unreliable, very bad in terms of build quality and materials, very unstable and doesn't have 50-50 weight distribution that started with E46. So unless you have nostalgic feelings, E36 is a tractor compared to G20. And E39 M5 is less aggressive and slower than my 540i and floatier and softer than a 530i without an M sport package. If millennial sees all the nonsensical praise for old cars here then goes ahead and drives one, he would be severely disappointed.(Maybe except E46)

Look at the disturbing A-pillar deformation and roof cave in on that old E36.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

Actually, you’re living the best days of BMW. Until approximately a decade ago, BMW were unreliable and unsafe cars with boy racer kind of feel. Then they progressively got better and now they’re better than they’ve ever been.Things that didn’t exist before like: comfort, reliability, security, efficiency, technology comes as standard now in addition to much better performance.

E36 is pretty much a moving casket, very unreliable, very bad in terms of build quality and materials, very unstable and doesn’t have 50-50 weight distribution that started with E46. So unless you have nostalgic feelings, E36 is a tractor compared to G20. And E39 M5 is less aggressive and slower than my 540i and floatier and softer than a 530i without an M sport package. If millennial sees all the nonsensical praise for old cars here then goes ahead and drives one, he would be severely disappointed.(Maybe except E46)

I disagree. Yes cars now are objectively better than ever when it comes to build quality, reliability, fuel economy, performance, ride quality, tech, etc.

But absolutely nobody would argue the F/G chassis cars are more driver-focused than their predecessors. You can't replace the classic BMW formula of Inline 6, tight communicative steering, RWD bias architecture, and manual option. BMW makes some of the best vehicles in its respective segments, but their distinguishing character is all but gone. Drive them side-by-side with comparable Audis and Mercs and there's little difference.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I disagree. Yes cars now are objectively better than ever when it comes to build quality, reliability, fuel economy, performance, ride quality, tech, etc.

But absolutely nobody would argue the F/G chassis cars are more driver-focused than their predecessors. You can't replace the classic BMW formula of Inline 6, tight communicative steering, RWD bias architecture, and manual option. BMW makes some of the best vehicles in its respective segments, but their distinguishing character is all but gone. Drive them side-by-side with comparable Audis and Mercs and there's little difference.

BMW's manual's have always felt very rubbery to me but I've just chalked it up as what makes a BMW a BMW. Also, anyone who says the F/G chassis cars are more driver focused is most likely a Zoomer with no experience driving older BMW models.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

Actually, you’re living the best days of BMW. Until approximately a decade ago, BMW were unreliable and unsafe cars with boy racer kind of feel. Then they progressively got better and now they’re better than they’ve ever been.Things that didn’t exist before like: comfort, reliability, security, efficiency, technology comes as standard now in addition to much better performance.

https://www.euroncap.com/en/results/bmw/3-series/15459

E36 is pretty much a moving casket, very unreliable, very bad in terms of build quality and materials, very unstable and doesn’t have 50-50 weight distribution that started with E46. So unless you have nostalgic feelings, E36 is a tractor compared to G20. And E39 M5 is less aggressive and slower than my 540i and floatier and softer than a 530i without an M sport package. If millennial sees all the nonsensical praise for old cars here then goes ahead and drives one, he would be severely disappointed.(Maybe except E46)

The newer generation of BMWs are safer and very mainstream friendly. They suck at being a BMW. BMW's of yore were buttoned down and were lauded for how they brought excitement to the road. They mocked Audi and Mercedes for offering front wheel drive cars. Unless you drive one for an extended period of time, you won't understand how exciting they were at some point.

[gblansten]

Right now if you are driving a 2020 M5.

[solstice]

For the M3, E30 and E90 of different reasons. Peak of lightweight agility and peak of NA engines.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by jstein55

I would also add that electronics of modern cars have actually hampered long term reliability as well and are likely more difficult to work on and expensive to repair. New Honda's and Toyota's aren't likely to last as long as the older models.

That may be it but those same electronics have made powertrains infinitely more reliable. Go figure?

[Aaaaaaaaa]

The best days are never in the present, future, or recent past it seems. Something about E30 M3 blah blah blah

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by solstice

For the M3, E30 and E90 of different reasons. Peak of lightweight agility and peak of NA engines.

Still remember the criticism of the N52 around these parts...

[stefan]

Originally Posted by The Automotive Enthusiast

I'm going to be honest, I can't tell you how happy I am to have grown up in the days of the e36. I got to experience what a raw BMW felt like. Oh, and they had the classic Hoffmeister kink. Something that people will soon forget as BMW seems to be phasing it out of their designs all together.

Clearly it is the E46 M3 era when you had the S54 with 100+hp/L with tech and performance well above its rivals.

Nowadays we have to slap insane grilles on the car for differentiation. But in the early 2000s a BMW M car was the sport sedan to get.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by stefan

Clearly it is the E46 M3 era when you had the S54 with 100+hp/L with tech and performance well above its rivals.

Nowadays we have to slap insane grilles on the car for differentiation. But in the early 2000s a BMW M car was the sport sedan to get.

Honestly, when BMW stopped the bespoke engine for the M cars with the F8x,I died on the inside. The heart of the beast was now based on a regular series car with reinforced internals and a couple minor tweaks here and there. I will never forget my e92 and the satisfaction of 8,200 RPM or the metallic scream of the e46 M3's six cylinder,

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by jstein55

Agree, especially in the M5, getting a bit tired of seeing BMW use the same Twin-Turbo V8 now in two generations of M5 and three X5M's and M needs to catch up to AMG with the exhausts.

To be honest the F90 may well be the last combustion engined M5. Enjoy that Twin turbo V8 while you can. Next gen will be fully BEV.

Last year BMW allowed the press to tinker around with this G30 BEV prototype which is far more powerful/Fast as than F90 M5.

710HP and 884 pounds feet of torque...

https://www.bmwblog.com/2019/06/28/d...e-next-bmw-m5/

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by jstein55

I'd actually love to see an M5 with a smaller engine, perhaps an inline-6, just like the E28 and E34. BMW V8's just don't do it for me, for V8's I'd got to AMG.

Not happening man.

I believe the 382HP B58 6 cyl in the M340i is the best this generation has to offer. But electrification of high performance BMW models is not a question of if but when.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by jstein55

Never know, with the future of electric technology BMW could make an I6+Mild-Hybrid system and stick it in an M car. Whether its the M5 will of course be the question.

The closest to that concept is the current 745e hybrid and possibly the upcoming 545e.

I just don't see BMW adding hybrid technology to M cars in the future but nothing surprises me anymore.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

To be honest the F90 may well be the last combustion engined M5. Enjoy that Twin turbo V8 while you can. Next gen will be fully BEV.

Last year BMW allowed the press to tinker around with this G30 BEV prototype which is far more powerful/Fast as than F90 M5.

710HP and 884 pounds feet of torque...

https://www.bmwblog.com/2019/06/28/d...e-next-bmw-m5/

And I'm okay with that. As much as I absolutely love the emotion, times have significantly changed. Porsche is cranking out 500hp+ with a naturally aspirated six cylinder engine and it's a monster. Just needs a little big of engineering and some effort and I'm sure BMW can make a six cylinder cranking out more HP and torque than the V8. Look at what AMG has done with their new turbo four cylinder. It's crazy.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by The Automotive Enthusiast

And I'm okay with that. As much as I absolutely love the emotion, times have significantly changed. Porsche is cranking out 500hp+ with a naturally aspirated six cylinder engine and it's a monster. Just needs a little big of engineering and some effort and I'm sure BMW can make a six cylinder cranking out more HP and torque than the V8. Look at what AMG has done with their new turbo four cylinder. It's crazy.

I am sure they can. Next M3/M4 will be what? 500-600HP from a turbo in line 6?

And don't forget BMW also has a high output B48 4 cyl 2 liter turbo rated at "302HP", likely under rated in good old BMW fashion and probably making close to 350HP.

Here is the thing though. The last time a M5 was offered with a NA 6cyl was during the E34 era, which used the S38 engine. It's been 26+ years since the last E34 M5 rolled off the assembly line. E34 M5 production ended in August 1995. Every M5 since then has had a V shaped engine:

E39 M5: V8
E60M5: V10
F10: Twin turbo V8
F90: Twin turbo V8, all wheel drive.

So as you can see, BMW has been shoving down V8s and V10s in the M5 for the last 20 years. Today's M5 buyers expect a V8 as minimum baseline in their new M5s. Those wanting a 6 in line M car have to "downgrade" to either M3 or M4. (Or X3M, X4M if they tolerate SUVs).

I am not staying it isn't plausible, but I think it’s more likely for the next gen M5 is a fully electric than downsized to inline 6 engine. "Lucy" the G30 BEV prototype is a clear indication of where BMW wants to take the 5 Series next.

Why would anyone bother with a 6 cyl M5 today? If that's your thing, save the cash and get a M340i or spring for the upcoming 545e G30 hybrid. Far more interesting in my book.

[seis-speed]

2016 is underrated IMO.

M3 looked amazing
M2 was launched
M4 was available, with some crazy variants
M5 was decent with a new model on the horizon

The only knock is the EPS steering is just not as good. Hydraulic give you so much more feel in a car, it is amazing the difference.

[EXE46]

My first bimmer was an E36 way back in the day, then later two E46's in the E46fanatics heydays. My E46 days was the best, the fanatics community was great. These cars still look great to date and in fact the E46 M3 is still my favorite of them all. As for chassis the G20 is excellent, the only drawback is the steering, I still struggle with this aspect of the car.

The irony is that, people crap over the Lexus 3IS but that car has superior steering to the G20. Can't believe BMW couldn't do a better job when Toyota manages to do that. I never bought the E90, never cared for that interior layout so held unto my E46 for 11 years and 200k miles before we parted. Also, was not a fan of the F30 so I went to the competition for my driving fix.

As for the future, I am torn. BMW is heading into a scary place as do most other car makers and seems hell bent on following Mercedes. Mercedes certainly is not the answer. Most likely I may have to buy an older bimmer and keep for the long term. Yesterday, I went to the Miami BMW poker run and saw many locals with classic BMW's in excellent condition, E36/E46,E39 M cars and many more. I will not buy an electric bmw or any 4 cylinder hybrid setup ala Mercedes regardless of how impressive the performance stats maybe.