[SkipSauls]

To be clear, I love my 335i and feel it is the best all-around car that I've ever owned. I want to make that point up front so that people don't get bent out of shape thinking I'm a BMW-hater. I'm not, and I hope that you'll take the time to read the entire post before replying with something silly.

My wife was in the market for a new SUV/SAV/crossover/whatever. She's been driving Lexuses (Lexi?) for a few years now and likes them, but I convinced her to cross-shop a bunch of brands and models. We researched many of them online, drove quite a few of them, and spent a lot of time in the finalists.

The list was extensive, including Audi Q7, BMW X3, BMW X5, Buick Enclave, Cadillac SRX, GMC Acadia, Infiniti FX, Lexus RX, Lexus GX, Mercedes ML, Porsche Cayenne, Nissan Murano, Toyota Highlander, and Volkswagen Touareg. All were new 08 or 09 models, and were well-equipped with navigation, premium packages, cold-weather packages, and so on. Some had sixes, some had V8s, some had 3rd row seating, and various other differences, but all were reasonably comparable. Prices ranged from around $40k to nearly $60k, with many of them offering great deals over the holiday weekend.

My wife has one seemingly simple "test" that determines whether or not she can live with the car. It's something that may sound alien to many BMW owners, but it's the way that she uses the car, and it's near the top of her list of things that a car must have. My criteria are quite different, otherwise I don't think I'd be driving a BMW either...

She asks the salesperson to show her the nav system, asking them to do a few different things:

1. Find the nearest Target, Marshalls, McDonalds, etc. This involves typing in part or all of the name and then selecting one from the list as the destination. She uses this all the time.

2. Enter an address and set it as the destination. This involves choosing the city, entering the street number, and entering all or part of the street name and selecting it from a list. This becomes the new destination.

3. Scroll around the map. This involves looking N/S/E/W to see what is nearby. This does not mean zooming out, which is completely different.

The Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, and Volkswagen salespeople were mostly unable to complete these tasks. What really amazed us was that at each of these dealers the salesperson had to ask for help from another person, either another salesperson or some sort of "delivery specialist" who was supposed to train new owners. The Infiniti, Lexus, Nissan, and Lexus salespeople were able to demonstrate the systems by themselves, but that's not the really sad thing. Some details:

Mercedes - The "specialist" couldn't figure out how to find the nearest Target, and could only find Target's corporate HQ. She said that none of the nav systems did that, which was stupid as that demolished her credibility instantly. Even she didn't seem to know more than the basics, and I pity the new owners who have to sit with her trying to learn to use their new car.

BMW - The salesperson called his associate over, who finally admitted that there didn't seem to be any way to search on "Target" and find the nearest one. The best he could do was bring up a list of shopping centers and try to scroll around the list. Somehow he and my wife both managed to "pop" back to the main screen on the iDrive over and over again, which made the entire process comical from my back-seat perspective.

I tried to help as I really wanted my wife to get the X5, but despite having years of experience in computer user interfaces, I couldn't find any way to do what she wanted. Both of the sales people tried to turn things around by talking about using iDrive while the car is in motion, which fell down flat as my wife pointed out that it still didn't do what she was asking for.

I've even googled around to try to find out how to search, etc. on iDrive, but the most I could find were some videos on YouTube showing how to use the POI function, which seems quite lame. My wife otherwise liked the X5, and I think that it would have been the "one" except for the damn iDrive and the seeming inability to find anyone who knows how to do what she wants.

Lexus - Passed with flying colors. She's had a few of them and simply expects that all cars should have easy to use nav systems.

Infiniti - Passed, seems as good or better than the Lexus. The FX might have had a shot if not for the cramped rear quarters.

Nissan - Similar to the Infiniti system, as expected. The Murano was a bit lower-end, although nicely equipped, but in so doing was almost as much as the premium brands.

Toyota - Similar to the Lexus, but the Highlander suffered from being too expensive when equipped nicely. Anyone looking at the higher end models from Toyota or Nissan should really take a look at the premium brands as they might be surprised what they could be driving for not much more.

Audi - The nav system seemed a bit easier to use than iDrive, but the salesperson couldn't show her how to do all the tasks. I hate the local Audi dealer, but think that the Q7 is nice enough.

Porsche - Once she learned how Porsche's option-to-death pricing works she quickly wrote them off. I've owned several Porsches and like them, but don't think much of the Cayenne until you get into the more expensive variants.

Volkswagen - They didn't have one on the lot with nav, and apparently don't order many of them that way. They're low-end, and came across that way.

Buick, Cadillac, and GMC - All had nav systems that could do what she wanted, but were a mixed-bag in terms of interior quality and luxury. Having nice leather seats, decent wood (or fake wood), etc. is quickly spoiled by nasty plastic panels, steering wheel hubs, switchgear, and so on. I have a GMC 2500HD tow vehicle and I'm not an "import snob" by any stretch, but once you get above the $40k price range the domestics simply don't measure up in all areas.

You'll probably notice that the above doesn't mention how they drove, the utility, etc. The simple fact is that if the nav system didn't work to her liking then she was reluctant to waste any more time on them. I managed to get her to spend a few hours driving and going over the X5, and she did like most everything but the iDrive. The steering, brakes, power, styling, and features were good, and I was truly hopeful that she was going to get the X5.

She ended up in a Lexus GX470, which I have to say is a good vehicle for her. It rides well, drives better than I was expecting, is very nicely finished, has plenty of room, etc., and importantly, the nav system is easy to use. The Lexus dealer also gave us a better deal than BMW or Infiniti, which was surprising given how hard all the dealers seemed to be working over the past few days. I wish she had gotten the X5, but I know that I'd have to hear about how much she hates the iDrive, and it is worth it for her to be happy.

I also think that BMW (and the other German dealers) should take the time to train their salespeople how to use these systems, no matter how arcane they may be. It's absurd that so few of them know how to use the cars that they're trying to sell. I've tried my best, but BMW's silly iDrive has let me down once again.

Despite all of this, my next vehicle may well be an X5 or X6 with the xDrive35d, or whatever it is called. I'll even consider iDrive, even though I don't believe that the "new" version is really any better. I can tolerate it well enough, and maybe I'll learn how to "demo" the damn thing well enough that my wife can be tricked into getting a BMW next time!

[wrtworld]

How much did you pay for the Lexus truck?

[SkipSauls]

Around $47k, with every option except for the rear DVD system and the "kinetic" offroad suspension. The X5 was coming in at $52k with similar options, although not quite as many.

I don't know if you meant "truck" as a slam, but if so then you might want to drive one before writing it off. In most daily driving situations it is smoother and quieter than the X5, and is likely to be more capable in any off-road or bad weather situations. I don't like the fact that it lacks the steering feel of the X5, and I'd take an X5 myself over the Lexus, but my wife simply doesn't share my need/enthusiasm for the BMW driving experience.

[rlb]

Why didn't you look at the Acura MDX? Acura has one of the best/easiest to use nav systems around. I had a 2004 TL and used the nav exactly the way your wife does. It was awesome. I did not even need to read the manual to use it. When I was buying my BMW, I looked at the nav/idrive and it was like it was developed by 10 year olds in the 1990's. Thankfully the 335 was available without idrive. I got a Nuvi 660 and saved $1,600. The Nuvi is great but I still miss my TL's nav.

[SkipSauls]

We considered the Acura, but the looks killed it before we even got to the dealer. My wife had considered the MDX a few years ago but got an RX instead. The new MDX is no doubt nicer than before, but she couldn't get past the styling. I think she would have liked it otherwise.

I don't have iDrive in my 335i either, and specifically chose one without it. The iDrive in the X5 doesn't look as bad since the "double hump" is gone, but it doesn't work any better, even with the "quick" buttons.

Another funny note about the BMW dealers is that they were trying to make the argument that Lexus, Acura, etc. would all be going away from touch-screen systems to knob/joystick/pad systems over the next few years, due to "safety reasons." A decent point, although I'm not convinced that the knob/etc. is going to mean that you're looking at the screen any less. What makes it all so funny is that they were using this as the response to their inability to search for a location. That seems to imply that having the knob/etc. means giving up ease-of-use, which is not the case. It's not the knob that makes iDrive difficult to use, it's the absurd user interface design.

[gonzo]

No iDrive in my former 335 for a reason. A loaner 535 had it and I took it back and got into an X3 with no IDrive. HATED it. The X3's pedals were too close together for me but dealt with it.

You really can't go wrong with Lexus either....

[TLud]

Give the new 4th generation of iDrive (CIC) a try on the '09 models. It is supposed to be much improved in terms of features and ease of use.

[quest556]

Originally Posted by SkipSauls

We considered the Acura, but the looks killed it before we even got to the dealer. My wife had considered the MDX a few years ago but got an RX instead. The new MDX is no doubt nicer than before, but she couldn't get past the styling. I think she would have liked it otherwise.

+1 As an owner of an 06 MDX, I can attest to the ease of use nav but in 07 and up, they dropped the touch screen in favor of a more i-drive like interface. Joystick, buttons etc. Sure, there is voice and it is still vastly superior to the I-drive but seems a step backwards to me. The touch screen is incredibly easy to use, fast and intuitive.

Lastly, I considered trading it this year for an 08 but also could not warm to the styling, that "Joker" face on it is just

[chuck92103]

How did you ever find your way to the dealer without Nav? oh my god, the sky is falling.

Get yourself a little portable unit and stop shopping for cars based on what nav they have. Afterall it will be obsolete quickly anyway.

p.s. Of course the Lexus Nav past with flying colors. There is only one thing wrong with it. You have to buy a lexus to get it.

[ganeil]

Get the X5 and buy her a Garmin Nuvi.

[BK]

FWIW - I prefer the new Lexus nav to the Acura nav. Both are easy to use, though.

And another FWIW - you can find the nearest Target by searching on "Targ" or whatever on the BMW. Still, the Lexus and Acura are much simpler to use. Just typing out "T-a-r-g" on the Bimmer is a PITA compared to a touch screen. For new destinations by address, you can use voice commands on the BMW to enter the whole address, which is even easier than a touch screen.

I don't disagree that BMW nav isn't the best, but IMHO if this is your wife's test for buying a car, then she isn't exactly the kind of driver who BMW and Porsche is catering to, anyway. Lexus and Acura, definitely.

[RedGT3]

I like the I-drive in my wife's 530

[!Xoible]

tldr

[Year's_End]

...and she never considered getting a portable navi system?

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by ///Mantis

tldr

fail

[BMW F22]

The navigation systems on German cars aren't that good. They can get you to where you want to go if you know the address but finding an address or location is another story. On the BMW, I noticed that some categories are very closely related and you must pick the correct one to search for the location. For example, "public places" and something like "parks & attractions" should just be 1 category IMO. Also, even if you chose the correct one most of the times they can't find the place.

The Lexus' navigation system is definitely very intuitive and easy to use. I kind of wish BMW's nav system was the same.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

fail

wont waste 50 precious minutes of my life lol

[Spec 1]

Interesting writeup, thanks for sharing. I personally think Nav is an overpriced option in OEM form. It is much more reasonable to me to find the vehicle that actually fits your lifestyle and then put in an aftermarket NAV system. The cost alone will be over $1,500 in savings and I actually prefer the aftermarket systems.

[bubbletea 4 me]

my 335i has nav. love the car.. but idrive is luke warm at best. it's better than not having a nav i've to say, but my $150 portable one actually works better, much easier to use, and has fucntions that a $2000 Idrive dont even offer..

on the other hand, japanese cars make awsome nav systems be it nissan, toyota, or honda. japanese know their electronics.. Germans on the other hand,.. nah, it's not their strong suit. however, i chose bmw because the way it drives, not because it has more techno gizmos. if that's what i wanted,i would have gotten a Lexus or Infiniti, which offers much more techno gizmos for less money - and much easier to use.

sometimes i wonder why can't the german car companies use the same electronic suppliers that the japanese use for all their in-car computer related stuff (ie. Nav).

plus, whichever sales guy said knob is better than touch scree is a dumbass. the one thing i hate the most about idrve is the stupid knob and how hard it is to operate compare to simple touch screens.

[souldriven]

Just test drove most of the makes you mentioned before I bought my 335: I specifically looked at Nav because it was an option I wanted.

Some additional comments

1 - Lexus, Mercedes, and (I think) Infinity have input into Nav disabled once the car is in drive. You have to pull over to the side of the road to input destinations. Not true in the BMW and a big plus for me.

2 - The touch screen systems have a flat aspect and don't have a secondary screen as in the BMW, thus are much harder to see in when shone upon by direct sunlight, another plus for BMW. The BMW was also the most legible with double polarized sun-glasses (maui jim's)

3 - BMW iDrive system can be used in split screen, which I have really taken to. I love having playlist from iPod up with the map on the RHS of screen.

4 - BMW assist includes realtime traffic. Extra cost for Lexus, infinity (can't remember for Mercedes)

5- Acura HAD a great Nav (I have a '04 MDX) but have since f'ed it up with new design which now includes joystick (vs. touchscreen) and a thousand buttons that are scattered all over the dash.

FWIW, I really value the NAV myself, and have it in two of my other cars. After market stuff is not an option for me (hate wires everywhere). I have an iPhone with maps which is fine, but in CA using phone while driving is now verbotten.

[chuck92103]

Originally Posted by souldriven

Just test drove most of the makes you mentioned before I bought my 335: I specifically looked at Nav because it was an option I wanted.

Some additional comments

1 - Lexus, Mercedes, and (I think) Infinity have input into Nav disabled once the car is in drive. You have to pull over to the side of the road to input destinations. Not true in the BMW and a big plus for me.

2 - The touch screen systems have a flat aspect and don't have a secondary screen as in the BMW, thus are much harder to see in when shone upon by direct sunlight, another plus for BMW. The BMW was also the most legible with double polarized sun-glasses (maui jim's)

3 - BMW iDrive system can be used in split screen, which I have really taken to. I love having playlist from iPod up with the map on the RHS of screen.

4 - BMW assist includes realtime traffic. Extra cost for Lexus, infinity (can't remember for Mercedes)

5- Acura HAD a great Nav (I have a '04 MDX) but have since f'ed it up with new design which now includes joystick (vs. touchscreen) and a thousand buttons that are scattered all over the dash.

FWIW, I really value the NAV myself, and have it in two of my other cars. After market stuff is not an option for me (hate wires everywhere). I have an iPhone with maps which is fine, but in CA using phone while driving is now verbotten.

Good points. I know of no car that does everything well. You have to decide what matters most. A feature you use occasionally, or the overall performance and handling.

The main advantage to iDrive is all the things it does in addition to nav. Lexus can't hold a candle to all the functionality especially when in motion.

[AJerman]

Originally Posted by ///Mantis

tldr

You're such a worthless bastard.

Anyway, I love my iDrive. I wouldn't buy a BMW without it, but I will agree with you that the nav is worthless. It's extremely cumbersome to use and has terrible search functionality. Hopefully this will be upgraded in the new iDrive as well, and not just given a new interface.