[iminhell1]

Now that's out of the way.

It's always struck me as strange that we Americans can't forgive and forget ANYTHING. We have to dedicate all sorts of things to remembering the bad things that have happened to the nation, it's people (white and black only) and it's women (sorry guys).

This rig is in my local area this week:
https://www.facebook.com/NeverForget...?fref=mentions

Makes me wonder what would happen if what's left of the Sioux Indians would make a similar trailer and go from town to town? (1862 uprising if you're not familiar with it)
Would they receive the same open arms and jubilee? (hell no)


Yes it was a horrible day, no one will deny that ... fuck you conspiracy nutjobs. A life lost is a life lost, by whos hands is irrelevant.
The thing I dislike most is the amount of hatred towards human life it's brought out in this nation, and other nations. I hate no one. I don't wish death on anyone, ever. I believe in rehabilitation and that love conquers all. Naive as it may be, I'm going to stick to it.


If anyone's been to Japan, do they have a remembrance day for August 6th or 9th? (A: no)
Then why do we? It just makes no sense to me. Progress demands you move on. For the vast majority of US citizens, there was no direct impact to your life from the acts of 9/11. Yet many act as thought the was, that the lost people they knew and loved. The didn't. It's been beat into their heads so often that they think they knew people, similar to how they cry when some actor dies in a tv show; it's not real, you don't know them dummy.
Are we really that simple minded? (A: yes)


Shit like this trailer just bugs me. I see it as a way to keep the hatred and secular nationalism ball rolling. Using others sadness to drum up dollars for bombs.

[kscarrol]

Japan does hold ceremonies every Aug 6th and 9th remembering the atomic attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki...

[iminhell1]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

Japan does hold ceremonies every Aug 6th and 9th remembering the atomic attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki...

I was looking for something nation wide, similar to the US. But now that I look harder I see they do have a city peace day, https://www.japan.travel/en/spot/161/

I like to wording personally.
Can't seem to find bumper stickers or commemorative tshirts though ...

[kscarrol]

Not disagreeing with you, just clarifying the Japan issue...

[iminhell1]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

Not disagreeing with you, just clarifying the Japan issue...

Figured that. And thanks.

[JohnnyCanuck]

It's not confined to the US, but why should we forget? Remembering our mistakes should be the best way to avoid repeating. While I get that doesn't directly apply to 9/11, it does to so much of what we choose to devote remembrance to.

The problem is that your underlying point is very strong and there's no easy answer to providing the balance. 9/11 is still with us in everything from airport security to military entanglements in the Middle East to the excesses by which our national security agencies intrude on our privacy to the anger and hate which you refer.

[Hawkeye]

It is hard to compare a terrorist attack approved by no nation with a retaliatory war attack that was approved by 2 nations.

To me that is similar to saying we should remember all of the gang bangers that get shot the same as we do a concert/school shooting.

I do agree with your general sentiment though, I dislike things that I view as creating a divide and hate among people.

[Germanauto]

I'm generally pro-America but when I went to the Pearl Harbor memorial I did find it peculiar that everybody was making a big deal over it when America killed and ruined many more innocent lives in Japan.

Some jack*ss yelled at me for talking (at low volume) to my dad. Jerk off.

[Law]

In a nutshell: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

While there are patriotic and nationalist undertones to these kinds of memorializing/commemorations, I don't see it as necessarily divisive as much as I see it as keeping the memory alive for posterity, lest we forget.

In other countries, there are also memorials and commemorations for less than fortunate events.
Someone already mentioned Japan above.
On the flip side of the same coin, China also commemorates the events culminating in the outbreak of the Second Sino-Japanese War (later part of WWII) as 國恥日 (literally: National Shame Day).
There's even a memorial bell with the inscription "Never Forget [Our] National Shame" in Shenyang.



The US is one of the few countries that has been fortunate enough to have only been invaded or directly attacked on its own soil less than a handful of times.
So, from that perspective, events like 9/11, may seem "small" compared to what some other countries have experienced, but in the context of American history, it is probably the most significant event of recent memory, and an event that still affects US policy and foreign relations today, nearly 17 years later.
So, definitely worth remembering.

[JamesWWIII]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

The thing I dislike most is the amount of hatred towards human life it's brought out in this nation, and other nations. I hate no one. I don't wish death on anyone, ever. I believe in rehabilitation and that love conquers all. Naive as it may be, I'm going to stick to it.

Yes, that's as naïve as it gets. That's hippie flower child levels of naïve.

Stick to your rainbows and puppy dogs outlook all you like. We don't live in Disney World, we have to live in the real world, and in the real world there are absolutely people who hate you and wish death on you and everyone you care about. Those people follow the same fundamentalist teaching of Islam that instructs them that anyone who doesn't believe as they do is an infidel and should be converted or killed. Hate to burst your little bubble, but love ain't gonna conquer radical Islam. There is no rehabilitation or negotiation possible with the members of this group, and they proved the force of their will and belief on September 11, 2001 when they murdered nearly 3,000 innocent people. If you need a reminder of how little they care for your way of life and that of your fellow citizens, I'd urge you to pay a visit to Ground Zero in Lower Manhattan for a refresher course.

[iminhell1]

Get to others later ...

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

It's not confined to the US, but why should we forget? Remembering our mistakes should be the best way to avoid repeating. While I get that doesn't directly apply to 9/11, it does to so much of what we choose to devote remembrance to.

The problem is that your underlying point is very strong and there's no easy answer to providing the balance. 9/11 is still with us in everything from airport security to military entanglements in the Middle East to the excesses by which our national security agencies intrude on our privacy to the anger and hate which you refer.

I am in no way saying we should ever forget.
I am saying I don't believe it needs to be a mobile/yearly educational (I assume, haven't been there) memorial.
I have not seen (nor have I really looked) any other traveling memorial of terrorism/war/death/murder/etc.

[JamesWWIII]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

I have not seen (nor have I really looked) any other traveling memorial of terrorism/war/death/murder/etc.

There is a traveling version of the Vietnam Memorial Wall, and I fail to see what exactly is the problem with such a thing existing. No one is making you or anyone else visit it.

http://www.travelingwall.us

[BayMoWe335]

It's important to remember history, because you learn from it.

What you do with the acknowledgement is up to you.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

It's not confined to the US, but why should we forget? Remembering our mistakes should be the best way to avoid repeating. While I get that doesn't directly apply to 9/11, it does to so much of what we choose to devote remembrance to.

The problem is that your underlying point is very strong and there's no easy answer to providing the balance. 9/11 is still with us in everything from airport security to military entanglements in the Middle East to the excesses by which our national security agencies intrude on our privacy to the anger and hate which you refer.

Not a mistake. The bomb not only saved 500,00 American lives or so, they saved MILLIONS of Japanese lives. Specifically, the Japanese were not going to surrender, and they had no food to eat, 100,000,000 people had no food to eat.

[Captain Blood]

Don't give me wrong, it's nothing for humanity to be proud of. I was reading that 60+ people followed up putting fat man together with signing it. I would not have signed it, knowing how many people is was going to kill. But the Japanese were not going to surrender.

[JohnnyCanuck]

Originally Posted by Real Dodger

Not a mistake. The bond not only saved 500,00 American lives or so, they saved MILLIONS of Japanese lives. Specifically, the Japanese were not going to surrender, and they had no food to eat, 100,000,000 people had no food to eat.

I was referring to our mistakes as a society, not whether a justification existed for a specific decision. I agree that, in the time and at the moment, President Truman's decision to use atomic weapons is eminently defensible. The mistake(s) I refer to was society allowing the forces that came to power in Japan and Germany to achieve such power and use it in the fashion they did.

The only nit I'd pick with your post is that it was more than American lives. While the US had, by a large margin, the biggest force deployment in the South Pacific and would have suffered the most casualties in an invasion of Japan, the other major western Allied nations (Britain, Canada, New Zealand) also had a significant force presence in the Pacific theatre.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

I was referring to our mistakes as a society, not whether a justification existed for a specific decision. I agree that, in the time and at the moment, President Truman's decision to use atomic weapons is eminently defensible. The mistake(s) I refer to was society allowing the forces that came to power in Japan and Germany to achieve such power and use it in the fashion they did.

The only nit I'd pick with your post is that it was more than American lives. While the US had, by a large margin, the biggest force deployment in the South Pacific and would have suffered the most casualties in an invasion of Japan, the other major western Allied nations (Britain, Canada, New Zealand) also had a significant force presence in the Pacific theatre.

I perceived in an incorrect assumption. I apologize

[JohnnyCanuck]

Originally Posted by Real Dodger

I perceived in an incorrect assumption. I apologize

And I could have worded clearer ... (this is Law and MK at work, we're going to kill each other with courtesy)

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

And I could have worded clearer ... (this is Law and MK at work, we're going to kill each other with courtesy)

[UncleWede]

If u have never been to the memorial in Nagasaki you owe yourself a visit to see the BEST and worst in Humanity. We all know the worst but the Japanese made the memorial with the BEST of intentions that such a thing will NEVER happen to another human.

You may say I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one

[F32Fleet]

 WAR IS THE HEALTH OF THE STATE

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defc...nwarhea14.html

[cmyx6go]

Originally Posted by iminhell1

Shit like this trailer just bugs me. I see it as a way to keep the hatred and secular nationalism ball rolling. Using others sadness to drum up dollars for bombs.

It’s not about keeping the hatred. It’s about remembering and honoring those 1st responders that gave their lives to save people. And they’re still dying. Read up on Tunnel2towers and Steven Siller. He ran through the Battery Tunnel to the WTC and lost his life saving people. There are many unsung heros that spent months and years doing cleanup and sorting through debris looking for human remains so families could have some closure. They are dying everyday from all kinds of cancers and diseases related to their exposure to the toxins during the aftetmath. This organization takes care of the forgotten. My sweetie was in the freakin dumps for months after sorting through the rubble and now has to be checked for all kinds of cancers. Many of his “brothers” have died years after the attack. We should never forget those that made the ultimate sacrafice. God Bless them all.