[BEM-S4]

Saw a bunch today including this beauty. Why can't we get anything cool in US?

[3tekcorps]

Originally Posted by Mr Carrots

It's a real shame we have a market for disgusting garbage like the X2 and not these models

Seriously? What's the difference? Just lower an X2! Not like an X2 is a real SUV. Or this is real sports car.

[Hammer Werke]

Dude tell me about it. My wife's fam is from Norway. Whenever I'm there visiting it is wagon maddness. I took the dog for a stroll one freezing morning and every single vehicle on the whole block was a nice new sports wagon.

They also have more electric vehicles than any country I've even seen including the great nation of California. Free charging and parking everywhere too.

[MightyMouseTech]

When people stop buying stupid SUVs. In other words, never.

[GuidoK]

In europe SUV's and crossover SUV's are also on the rise at cost of the wagons.
10-15 years ago the wagon percentage was even higher.

A wagon is usually more practical in terms of storage space but the SUV/crossover is I think very popular by the elderly, especially the smaller crossovers.

[Captain Blood]

Wagon's are so cool. I don't know why. I guess the mix of sporty and practicality turn me on. My dream car is still the AMG 63 wagon.
I think SUV crossovers suck.

[Viffermike]

A great wagon to most everyone in the EU:



A great wagon to most everyone in the U.S.:



'Nuff said (and a cryin' shame).

[3tekcorps]

Originally Posted by Mr Carrots

I can't tell if I'm being trolled or if someone on a BMW forum seriously believes an F11 550i (or m5 touring) is the same as a lowered X2

Sorry.. Not meaning to troll the thread. Just don't see the wagon appeal any longer.

To me the line between wagon and crossover is just so blurred now. The X series is just a cross over. It's sedan running gear with an SUV body. I just look at a wagon and think I might as well have a little more room and get an X series.

Then I think I might as well get a real SUV in case I want to take it off road someday.

[Law]

Originally Posted by 3tekcorps

Seriously? What's the difference? Just lower an X2! Not like an X2 is a real SUV. Or this is real sports car.

Originally Posted by 3tekcorps

Sorry.. Not meaning to troll the thread. Just don't see the wagon appeal any longer.

To me the line between wagon and crossover is just so blurred now. The X series is just a cross over. It's sedan running gear with an SUV body. I just look at a wagon and think I might as well have a little more room and get an X series.

Then I think I might as well get a real SUV in case I want to take it off road someday.

Yeah...Except the F11 and G31 don't have the underpinnings of a Mini Cooper, emo lipstick front bumper, cheap-interior, or upside-down Kidney Grilles.

But that doesn't matter, they're just about the same

[3tekcorps]

Originally Posted by Law

Yeah...Except the F11 and G31 don't have the underpinnings of a Mini Cooper, emo lipstick front bumper, cheap-interior, or upside-down Kidney Grilles.

But that doesn't matter, they're just about the same

Cool.. We clearly need more models to pick from in this segment. How about a 4 door sedan built on the coupe platform with a hatchback. Oh wait...

[Meeni]

X2 is forward, transverse 4 with a higher center of gravity. So no, it is not a substitute in any way.

As for the 'wagon' stigma, call it sport-tourer or something.

[Weiman]

Originally Posted by Meeni

As for the 'wagon' stigma, call it sport-tourer or something.

BMW call it "Touring" pretty much everywhere else, I don't know why the US is different.

[aaaaah]

I just want a manual, 335i wagon. Or 340i now I guess.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by aaaaah

I just want a manual, 335i wagon. Or 340i now I guess.

I'd kill for a 335/340 xDrive Dinan Stage 2 BBK MPE. Track handling Package.

What else do you need? Talk about a car that could do literally everything very well.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by 3tekcorps

Sorry.. Not meaning to troll the thread. Just don't see the wagon appeal any longer.

To me the line between wagon and crossover is just so blurred now. The X series is just a cross over. It's sedan running gear with an SUV body. I just look at a wagon and think I might as well have a little more room and get an X series.

Then I think I might as well get a real SUV in case I want to take it off road someday.

Unless you want something that actually handles well.

[RABAUKE]

Originally Posted by Hammer Werke

Dude tell me about it. My wife's fam is from Norway. Whenever I'm there visiting it is wagon maddness. I took the dog for a stroll one freezing morning and every single vehicle on the whole block was a nice new sports wagon.

They also have more electric vehicles than any country I've even seen including the great nation of California. Free charging and parking everywhere too.

Norway has embraced the EV, North America will take a long time as distances travelled are different so range anxiety will be a factor for a while, and if you think the charging is free ask your wifes family how much tax they pay.

[Hammer Werke]

Indeed, they are taxed high...but the quality of life is better for the average citizen there vs here I believe. And the quality of life is also significantly improved from just being in the presence of all those magnificent wagons. But the weather....

And yes to the fellow from England....in the USA we only got the 3 series wagon and only in X-drive and only with automatic transmission. I recently signed a petition to bring the new 5 series wagon across the pond but this is hoop dreams.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by RABAUKE

Norway has embraced the EV, North America will take a long time as distances travelled are different so range anxiety will be a factor for a while, and if you think the charging is free ask your wifes family how much tax they pay.

Amen ... or don't pay, as the case may be ...

Norwegians are given massive government incentives to consider buying an EV over an ICE. Among them:
- VAT is waived (rate varies by car; starts at 10 percent of purchase price)
- roughly 85 percent off ownership tax
- half off business tax if used as a company car

Imagine the U.S. doing this -- or don't, because it'll never happen.

The first two are the key incentives. Norway's top income tax bracket was actually lower than the U.S. until Trump's tax cuts -- but it kicks in at about 1.5 times average annual income for the country. Combine that with business taxes that are only slightly more than half of the U.S.'s rate and no capital gains/estate taxes at all, and you have a broad consumption-based taxation system. The first two incentives above are the two biggest tax sources Norway imposes, and they're basically waived for an EV.

[Law]

Originally Posted by 3tekcorps

Cool.. We clearly need more models to pick from in this segment. How about a 4 door sedan built on the coupe platform with a hatchback. Oh wait...

Today I learned 5-door tourings are new segments.
I also learned that a lowered X2 is the same as a 5-series wagon.
And that a 4-series GC, which at best matches the practicality of the 3-series sedan while offering less headroom, is also apples-to-apples to a 5-door estate car.

Anything else you'd like to add?

[3tekcorps]

Originally Posted by Law

Today I learned 5-door tourings are new segments.
I also learned that a lowered X2 is the same as a 5-series wagon.
And that a 4-series GC, which at best matches the practicality of the 3-series sedan while offering less headroom, is also apples-to-apples to a 5-door estate car.

Anything else you'd like to add?

Nope. I'm done in wagon/suv/cuv land. I'll leave that for the experts and remain ignorant. Thanks for the follow up though.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Amen ... or don't pay, as the case may be ...

Norwegians are given massive government incentives to consider buying an EV over an ICE. Among them:
- VAT is waived (rate varies by car; starts at 10 percent of purchase price)
- roughly 85 percent off ownership tax
- half off business tax if used as a company car

Imagine the U.S. doing this -- or don't, because it'll never happen.

The first two are the key incentives. Norway's top income tax bracket was actually lower than the U.S. until Trump's tax cuts -- but it kicks in at about 1.5 times average annual income for the country. Combine that with business taxes that are only slightly more than half of the U.S.'s rate and no capital gains/estate taxes at all, and you have a broad consumption-based taxation system. The first two incentives above are the two biggest tax sources Norway imposes, and they're basically waived for an EV.

And Norway is debt free. Imagine the US doing that.

[E91WAG3N]

I caught the touring bug when I visited in 2003. Finally picked up an e91 a few months ago!