[saeedg48]

Anyone on the ketogenic diet?

[antych]

I've been on it for past ~3 years. I used to do bulletprooof coffee for a bit, but getting into ketosis is more about restricting carbs and protein.

[saeedg48]

Originally Posted by antych

I've been on it for past ~3 years. I used to do bulletprooof coffee for a bit, but getting into ketosis is more about restricting carbs and protein.

If you want to be purely ketone dependent yes, cut out the glucose.

However implementing exogenous keynotes can also help you get into ketosis irregardless of glucose restricting.

You can run on both fuel sources.

[antych]

You always run on both fuels, as your body produces glucose required by some parts of your body. It will maintain stable blood sugar, whether you're in ketosis or not. Not sure what you're trying to achieve, but the only way to be in nutritional ketosis is to eat mostly fat. Drinking bulletproof coffee is irrelevant here.

[saeedg48]

Originally Posted by antych

Not sure what you're trying to achieve, but the only way to be in nutritional ketosis is to eat mostly fat. Drinking bulletproof coffee is irrelevant here.

Antych,

I think you're unclear about the ingredient in a Bulletproof coffee.

The three ingredient include; 1. butter from grass fed cows; a fat source, 2. MCT oil once again a fat source and 3. high quality coffee bean.

[antych]

It doesn't matter what's in the coffee. Whether you're in ketosis depends on your total food consumption over long period of time (days, weeks). There's pretty much zero relation between bulletproof coffee and ketogenic diet. The most you can say is that bulletproof coffee is compatible with ketosis and can be part of the diet.

[saeedg48]

Originally Posted by antych

It doesn't matter what's in the coffee. Whether you're in ketosis depends on your total food consumption over long period of time (days, weeks). There's pretty much zero relation between bulletproof coffee and ketogenic diet. The most you can say is that bulletproof coffee is compatible with ketosis and can be part of the diet.

You are implying that I am only drinking bulletproof coffee as part of my ketogenic diet. Instead of criticizing your flawed understanding of my practices why not share your journey as I've mentioned above..

[antych]

It was you implying that bulletproff coffee makes you ketogenic, even if you don't restrict carbs. You just don't understand ketosis. I was trying to help you... but why bother with that kind of attitude.

[smoosh]

No idea what this bulletproof coffee bullshit is about...but I will say, ketogenic diets are very effective and very simple...

Ketosis is a bodily state, simply consuming a beverage in the morning will not get you there...

Personally, my body is all glycogen...if I don't consume at least 200g carbs daily, I'll look like a wooden board. Unfortunately, no ketogenic diet for me...

[reedo302]

I tried it for a period of time, started getting into ketosis, and then realized that I hated it. I loved the part about eating craploads of bacon and lots of fatty foods, but ultimately my energy levels never returned to where they were when I was doing a healthier IIFYM diet.

The thing to understand for all is that diets are not universal. Body chemistry and lifestyle dictate whether a diet will work. One method of inducing ketosis may not work for another person, or may just not work as effectively.

When I WAS trying the ketogenic diet, I had to go through the fridge and pantry and separate all the food I couldn't eat. I put it in a separate area, knowing that I wasn't going to stay ketogenic forever. Then I had to go to the grocery store, and then to organic stores to find various sauces and flavorings that I needed (salad dressing, etc). That was annoying.

I used a test kit and figured out when I was in ketosis and maintained that for a few weeks. Ultimately I did lose a few pounds and lean out a tad bit, but I realized that my energy levels were lower and my mood was more azzholish than usual. My post-workout recovery was much slower, and my energy return post-workout was also slowed. This is partly due to my energy output and needs for weight lifting/powerlifting. I'm significantly bigger than the average person, so my body chemistry and lifestyle made it disadvantageous for me to continue with the keto diet. I pretty much realized that I needed carbs. I had similar weight loss effects by just upping my cardio and reducing my calories by a few hundred daily.

With a healthier IIFYM diet, I can modulate my calories and regulate my weight and body fat levels. I found that with keto, it was harder to modulate based on what my body needed due to the restrictions on what I could and couldn't eat. Just my own experience though.

[csu87]

My wife, a head clinical dietitian at the hospital by us, would kill everyone in here for being on the Ketogenic diet. Take that for what its worth.

Yes, it does work for some, but it is an overall unhealthy diet unless you are following it to the "T". Problem is, a lot of people think they can eat a ton of Bacon and be on the diet...

[reedo302]

Originally Posted by csu87

My wife, a head clinical dietitian at the hospital by us, would kill everyone in here for being on the Ketogenic diet. Take that for what its worth.

Yes, it does work for some, but it is an overall unhealthy diet unless you are following it to the "T". Problem is, a lot of people think they can eat a ton of Bacon and be on the diet...

Oh yeah, the cholesterol levels went through the roof. I was able to get bacon from my butcher that had no sugar in the curing process, but like that means anything. Still no bueno in the long run.

[antych]

Originally Posted by csu87

My wife, a head clinical dietitian at the hospital by us, would kill everyone in here for being on the Ketogenic diet. Take that for what its worth.

Yes, it does work for some, but it is an overall unhealthy diet unless you are following it to the "T". Problem is, a lot of people think they can eat a ton of Bacon and be on the diet...

There are plenty of ignorant people who freak out when they hear of ketosis, because they are stuck in the 60' and ignore evidence. It's a shame that many of them are health professionals, dietitians and doctors, who perpetuate the lies and make people sicker.

It's not an unhealthy diet, and yes, you can eat ton of bacon.

[csu87]

Originally Posted by antych

There are plenty of ignorant people who freak out when they hear of ketosis, because they are stuck in the 60' and ignore evidence. It's a shame that many of them are health professionals, dietitians and doctors, who perpetuate the lies and make people sicker.

It's not an unhealthy diet, and yes, you can eat ton of bacon.

Done right yes, done wrong no.

The problem is there are a lot of people that do it wrong, and it is a lot of work and discipline to do it right. Much better by a health professional to recommend a healthier alternative that is easier to follow.

OP is a prime example of someone who doesnt know what they are doing. Drinking a special coffee isnt following the diet...

[brianeck]

I've stuck to more of a Carb Backloading/Carb Night type diet for the last 8 months or so on and off and its been great. I'm very cyclical about it because I travel a lot for work and I also really like to drink. I brew beer with some friends and there is no point if I don't get the opportunity to drink it.

I shoot for < 40 grams of carbs per day, and I try and save most of them for post resistance training. I don't often Carb Backload but once or twice a week I almost consider it like a pseudo cheat day even though its really okay within the bounds of the dietary rules anyway. . . These nights I go HAM on some pizza or a burrito or something else fucking delicious like that and full of carbs.

I've been able to drop from 205 to 195 @ 5'11 and my combined deadlift, bench, and squat 5x5 is roughly 1,000 lbs. No idea what my 1RM max is because I've never tried it and I usually don't lift with a spotter (one of the beautiful things about 5x5 is that you can do it alone).

Those results aren't staggering, but I went from a combined 700lb 5x5 over that 8 months, with plenty of cheating, and looks-wise I've made drastic improvements.

I started it all to combat my stubborn belly fat, and I'm amazed that between 5x5 and the diet I've managed to lose a little weight, build a pile of lean mass, and get significantly stronger at the same time.

On a side note - I can't do a true ketogenic diet and keep up my workout regimen. I gave up caffeine at the same time I started dieting as well, and I've found that my endurance at the gym really suffers if I'm not replacing my glycogen stores after a workout.

I have significantly switched gears and I haven't been doing a lot of endurance cardio since I started this whole process. I'd like to get a bit more ab definition in and then start switching back out to a "normal" but still relatively low carb diet without as many restrictions and phasing back in my longer runs. I have found that low carb and endurance cardio don't seem to go that well for me in terms of overall recovery and durability.

[antych]

Originally Posted by csu87

Done right yes, done wrong no.

The problem is there are a lot of people that do it wrong, and it is a lot of work and discipline to do it right. Much better by a health professional to recommend a healthier alternative that is easier to follow..

You can say that about anything. Driving cars is unhealthy because you will crash if you do it wrong.

And what is healthier and easier to follow? Studies show that ketogenic diets are easiest to follow because of their satiating and hunger suppressing effect. They also show they are healthier than pretty much anything else. Not only they don't make you fat and sick, they also have therapeutic effects and reduce inflammation.

[csu87]

Originally Posted by antych

You can say that about anything. Driving cars is unhealthy because you will crash if you do it wrong.

And what is healthier and easier to follow? Studies show that ketogenic diets are easiest to follow because of their satiating and hunger suppressing effect. They also show they are healthier than pretty much anything else. Not only they don't make you fat and sick, they also have therapeutic effects and reduce inflammation.

There are also studies that show a ketogenic diet isnt healthy and can cause long term issues.

Not every diet works for every person. That is why the health professionals take years of schooling and training to learn about everything and make a recommendation based on lifestyle, health traits, body type, etc.

Its no different than Paleo Diet, Atkins Diet, Gluten Free etc. that are "fad" diets that work well for some and not for others. Crossfit is another great example. It has lots of benefits if done right, but can really fuck you up if not.

this is going to be like arguing politics with you, I can already tell you arent going to listen to anything that doesnt agree with your beliefs.

[antych]

Originally Posted by csu87

There are also studies that show a ketogenic diet isnt healthy and can cause long term issues.

Not every diet works for every person. That is why the health professionals take years of schooling and training to learn about everything and make a recommendation based on lifestyle, health traits, body type, etc.

Its no different than Paleo Diet, Atkins Diet, Gluten Free etc. that are "fad" diets that work well for some and not for others. Crossfit is another great example. It has lots of benefits if done right, but can really fuck you up if not.

this is going to be like arguing politics with you, I can already tell you arent going to listen to anything that doesnt agree with your beliefs.

You're right about conflicting studies. You can pretty much find a study supporting whatever argument you want. It takes some effort weeding through this BS. The problem is that health professional are schooled based on exactly the same crooked science and their opinion isn't worth much. And if they knew what they are doing, we wouldn't have the obesity epidemic now.

Not all of those things are fads. Gluten free diet is a medical necessity for those with ceoliac disease. Ketosis is used to treat epilepsy and it was a natural state for most of our ancestors. Eating natural food isn't a fad.

I will not listen to "anything". I will listen to serious arguments that can be backed by evidence.

[csu87]

Originally Posted by antych

You're right about conflicting studies. You can pretty much find a study supporting whatever argument you want. It takes some effort weeding through this BS. The problem is that health professional are schooled based on exactly the same crooked science and their opinion isn't worth much. And if they knew what they are doing, we wouldn't have the obesity epidemic now.

Not all of those things are fads. Gluten free diet is a medical necessity for those with ceoliac disease. Ketosis is used to treat epilepsy and it was a natural state for most of our ancestors. Eating natural food isn't a fad.

I will not listen to "anything". I will listen to serious arguments that can be backed by evidence.

gluten free diet is a fad for the majority of those on gluten free diets. Celiac disease isnt as common as most people want to believe. On average, my wife encounters 10-20 patients a month that have self diagnosed celiac disease. And inevitably, they all eat some kind of gluten, without issue, in their normal diet without knowing. The best was a lady said she had celiac disease and couldnt have bread and pasta gluten, but cookies and ranch dressing gluten was fine. But thats for another thread.

Ill leave it at Ketogenic works for some, but not everyone. You can choose to disagree all you want and call the science that doesnt follow your agenda as BS, but that doesnt mean it isnt accurate.

Eating Natural Food has nothing to do with a Ketogenic Diet either. Any diet plan you want to go on that is all natural and uses portion control is going to help you lose weight and be overall healthier.

And FYI, several of my wife's teachers while getting her Masters were Ketogenic Dieters, as well as a number of the DRs she works with. But youre right, the "crooked" science they teach is all BS...

[JohnnyCanuck]

Originally Posted by antych

It takes some effort weeding through this BS. The problem is that health professional are schooled based on exactly the same crooked science and their opinion isn't worth much. And if they knew what they are doing, we wouldn't have the obesity epidemic now.

This is the kind of statement that completely undermines your credibility and completely validates the criticism of you by csu87

You blame health professionals for the obesity epidemic? That's just inane. Obesity is a product of genetics and metabolism with the significant overlay of behavioural, hormonal, psychological, cultural, environmental, and socioeconomic factors. Exactly how is the "health profession" responsible for this? They have no impact on many of these factors and the ones they do require patient commitment to be effective. If a patient isn't truly committed to being healthy, there is nothing a health professional can do. It's no different than an addict, there is no treatment for an addict who isn't committed to being clean and sober.

[csu87]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

This is the kind of statement that completely undermines your credibility and completely validates the criticism of you by csu87

You blame health professionals for the obesity epidemic? That's just inane. Obesity is a product of genetics and metabolism with the significant overlay of behav*ioural, hormonal, psychological, cul*tural, environmental, and socioeconomic factors. Exactly how is the "health profession" responsible for this? They have no impact on many of these factors and the ones they do require patient commitment to be effective. If a patient isn't truly committed to being healthy, there is nothing a health professional can do. It's no different than an addict, there is no treatment for an addict who isn't committed to being clean and sober.

Theres a 700lb man in the hospital currently that they cant discharge because he wont fit in his home and there are no other facilities that can accommodate him. Hes been on a calorie restriction, but they just caught his daughter and wife sneaking in McDonalds and Cheetos to him... Those goddam professionals are making him so fat.

[antych]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCanuck

This is the kind of statement that completely undermines your credibility and completely validates the criticism of you by csu87

You blame health professionals for the obesity epidemic? That's just inane. Obesity is a product of genetics and metabolism with the significant overlay of behav*ioural, hormonal, psychological, cul*tural, environmental, and socioeconomic factors. Exactly how is the "health profession" responsible for this? They have no impact on many of these factors and the ones they do require patient commitment to be effective. If a patient isn't truly committed to being healthy, there is nothing a health professional can do. It's no different than an addict, there is no treatment for an addict who isn't committed to being clean and sober.

WTF, did you live under a rock? Do you know how dietary guidelines are established and their effect on government policy and food industry? Ever heard of diet heart hypothesis? That's how they are responsible. They changed what we eat decades ago.

Blaming the "patient" is exactly what food industry and incompetent health "professionals" do. Give people bad diet advice, then blame them for being fat because they don't exercise more.