[John 070]

Originally Posted by MetsFan

Lower middle class?? Where do you live?

I feel bad for all the families making 70K a year. I guess they must be living on welfare and eating mayonnaise sandwiches.

That's not true at all, imho the "average" working stiff is only at 40k. And yes, they can lease cars and keep up appearances.

70k opens up even more opportunities, but you're not going to be driving a BMW that costs 52k for a 4 cyl.

I think what's going on here is forum members are probably below average given the demographics that BMW puts out on who drives their vehicles, and for some reason, in denial and/or resent the facts.

My dentist graduated from an Ivy League dental school--her car is an Acura TL. look up an average dentist's salary on salary.com, she's not "upper class," yet her income is likely 3X that figure you threw out. Those who have money don't tend to have the need to show off. Two of our doctor friends drive Accords and claim they can't afford a BMW. Afford, in that they are saving for this that and the other thing.

[ddk632]

Sea Ray makes a 70 footer???

[John 070]

Originally Posted by ddk632

Sea Ray makes a 70 footer???

yep and because I hear the bragging 3000 HP. Technically they have 68 in the name, like 68 sun sport.

[ddk632]

Originally Posted by John 070

yep and because I hear the bragging 3000 HP. Technically they have 68 in the name, like 68 sun sport.

Nice! Just looked it up. I always thought of Sea Ray as a low end brand, most of them are a quite small. The price of their 68' is actually quite reasonable as far as yachts go.

I'm a fan of the Revolver 42 myself.

[Whostheboss]

Originally Posted by John 070

That's not true at all, imho the "average" working stiff is only at 40k. And yes, they can lease cars and keep up appearances.

70k opens up even more opportunities, but you're not going to be driving a BMW that costs 52k for a 4 cyl.

I think what's going on here is forum members are probably below average given the demographics that BMW puts out on who drives their vehicles, and for some reason, in denial and/or resent the facts.

My dentist graduated from an Ivy League dental school--her car is an Acura TL. look up an average dentist's salary on salary.com, she's not "upper class," yet her income is likely 3X that figure you threw out. Those who have money don't tend to have the need to show off. Two of our doctor friends drive Accords and claim they can't afford a BMW. Afford, in that they are saving for this that and the other thing.

very true.

To me, i feel everyone should do whatever they want to do with their money. If you make $40k/yr and want to blow it off on a $52k car or on hookers please feel free.
There is no right or wrong way to spend the money that you worked for. You have to be happy today-now-this very moment. I encourage people to save for future but still enjoy your life today.
I hate seeing people who make/have a lot of $$$ yet they live a very poor life because they are saving for "retirement" or saving for "their kids future".

Thats good and all but, i will not be saving A LOT of money for my kids future... yeah that sounds harsh but, i'd rather enjoy my life now and spend some on my kids. If i'm lucky enough to have a lot of money, i will save more for my kids future... but i will never discomfort myself in order to save for another persons future, except for my retirement.

I've seen a lot of people who over worked themselves and lived a very conservative life so they can save for the "future generation" now those people are sick and living a very poor life, while their so called "future generation" i squandering that money like there's no tomorrow.

[Sedan_Clan]

Thanks for the reply. Anecdotally speaking, when I purchased my '02 330ci/'03 M3/'05 M3, there weren't too many people that I knew who were at the $140k mark (..individually) when they were driving variants of the E46 cars. I suppose BMW has the data, I just never personally encountered it in the real world that is 'keep-up-appearances-Southern-California'. Almost everybody, including myself, was leasing back then as well.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Whostheboss

very true.

To me, i feel everyone should do whatever they want to do with their money. If you make $40k/yr and want to blow it off on a $52k car or on hookers please feel free.
There is no right or wrong way to spend the money that you worked for. You have to be happy today-now-this very moment. I encourage people to save for future but still enjoy your life today.
I hate seeing people who make/have a lot of $$$ yet they live a very poor life because they are saving for "retirement" or saving for "their kids future".

Thats good and all but, i will not be saving A LOT of money for my kids future... yeah that sounds harsh but, i'd rather enjoy my life now and spend some on my kids. If i'm lucky enough to have a lot of money, i will save more for my kids future... but i will never discomfort myself in order to save for another persons future, except for my retirement.

I've seen a lot of people who over worked themselves and lived a very conservative life so they can save for the "future generation" now those people are sick and living a very poor life, while their so called "future generation" i squandering that money like there's no tomorrow.

I agree with these points as well. We all bust our asses to earn money, but become neurotic about spending it citing [insert reason here]. We temper our experiences (...travel, material experiences, hell....even food) when we do that, and we find ourselves saying, "I coulda, shoulda, woulda..." when we realize that life has passed us by, and we're too damn old to do anything with that stash we've horded. Fuck it, you can't take it with you.......spend a little and enjoy yourselves.

[Whostheboss]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I agree with these points as well. We all bust our asses to earn money, but become neurotic about spending it citing [insert reason here]. We temper our experiences (...travel, material experiences, hell....even food) when we do that, and we find ourselves saying, "I coulda, shoulda, woulda..." when we realize that life has passed us by, and we're too damn old to do anything with that stash we've horded. Fuck it, you can't take it with you.......spend a little and enjoy yourselves.

[M_Six]

Balance is indeed the key. Wifey and are are saving a bunch for retirement because the state is slowly eroding our pensions. But we still have plenty to spend enjoying the here and now. I tend to buy too much photography gear, but I refrain from buying really high end stuff because I can't justify the small gain in end result for the huge jump in pricing. But even there my threshold keeps going up as my skill improves. Still, $12k or more for a super-tele lens remains a dream that probably will never come true.

[PSUSMU]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I agree with these points as well. We all bust our asses to earn money, but become neurotic about spending it citing [insert reason here]. We temper our experiences (...travel, material experiences, hell....even food) when we do that, and we find ourselves saying, "I coulda, shoulda, woulda..." when we realize that life has passed us by, and we're too damn old to do anything with that stash we've horded. Fuck it, you can't take it with you.......spend a little and enjoy yourselves.

x2.. I will not be someone who ever says "I wish I did more, traveled more, ate out more, etc. when I was younger". I'm doing whatever the f I want in my 20s, but I'm not going to blow every dime I make either. I work hard so I can do the things I enjoy doing, while maintaining a modest lifestyle in order to be fiscally responsible. I may have been born on 2nd or 3rd base even, but I'm going to round home plate on my own.
If my future wife can contribute, that's an added bonus.

[Whostheboss]

Originally Posted by M_Six

Balance is indeed the key. Wifey and are are saving a bunch for retirement because the state is slowly eroding our pensions. But we still have plenty to spend enjoying the here and now. I tend to buy too much photography gear, but I refrain from buying really high end stuff because I can't justify the small gain in end result for the huge jump in pricing. But even there my threshold keeps going up as my skill improves. Still, $12k or more for a super-tele lens remains a dream that probably will never come true.

I say go ahead and enjoy this hobby. I too used to have a hard time justifying if a $1,500 drawing tablet was too high. I purchased it and i'm very happy. But with all other hobbies, now i want to upgrade to the $2,200 drawing tablet.

[2011CrazE89]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I agree with these points as well. We all bust our asses to earn money, but become neurotic about spending it citing [insert reason here]. We temper our experiences (...travel, material experiences, hell....even food) when we do that, and we find ourselves saying, "I coulda, shoulda, woulda..." when we realize that life has passed us by, and we're too damn old to do anything with that stash we've horded. Fuck it, you can't take it with you.......spend a little and enjoy yourselves.

Reminds me of my father in law. Always talked about taking that Alaskan cruise but never wanted to spend the money. 5 years later my mother in law finally convinced him to go on that cruise.

He passed away a couple of years ago. The cruise tickets are still sitting on the kitchen table. Very sad.

[954Stealth]

"The bitterest tears shed over graves are for words left unsaid and deeds left undone."
- Harriet Beecher Stowe

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Fuck it, you can't take it with you.......spend a little and enjoy yourselves.

In our grandparents days, 3 things happened when they passed away.

Charity received part of their estate.

Heirs received part of their estate.

A taxing authority received part of their estate.

I believe that many do believe exactly what you say. So what happens in the future is:

A taxing authority received part of their estate.

Again, nobody can really say what is right, or wrong. But I think what we do agree upon is that if you earn 70k, you're not buying a 52k car.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by 2011CrazE89

Reminds me of my father in law. Always talked about taking that Alaskan cruise but never wanted to spend the money. 5 years later my mother in law finally convinced him to go on that cruise.

He passed away a couple of years ago. The cruise tickets are still sitting on the kitchen table. Very sad.

At least he has something to pass on to his heirs, and to charity. That is not sad, that is his legacy. A cruise is neither here, nor there.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by John 070

At least he has something to pass on to his heirs, and to charity. That is not sad, that is his legacy. A cruise is neither here, nor there.

It is definitely sad... but it's his fault and no one else's.

[Whostheboss]

Originally Posted by John 070

Again, nobody can really say what is right, or wrong. But I think what we do agree upon is that if you earn 70k, you're not buying a 52k car.

Why not?
(I'm not being ignorant, i'm just asking)

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Whostheboss

Why not?
(I'm not being ignorant, i'm just asking)

It's questionable... while I would not do that it's certainly doable. If you have 20K to put down, finance the rest over 72 months and no problem.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by ASAP

It is definitely sad...

Why is it sad? It's a part of life, that's why people have wills.

My dad always says he could have bought a unit in Manhattan for 6X his salary when he graduated from college. Today, assuming a college grad makes 70k when he gets out, he would have to spend 28X his salary for the same thing.

My dad is still alive. Life is full of regrets, doesn't make them sad. They're just part of life.

I don't fully agree with the live for today philosophy. Countries like Norway certainly do not (take their oil as a resource for example).

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by John 070

Why is it sad? It's a part of life, that's why people have wills.

My dad always says he could have bought a unit in Manhattan for 6X his salary when he graduated from college. Today, assuming a college grad makes 70k when he gets out, he would have to spend 28X his salary for the same thing.

My dad is still alive. Life is full of regrets, doesn't make them sad. They're just part of life.

I don't fully agree with the live for today philosophy. Countries like Norway certainly do not (take their oil as a resource for example).

I don't agree with YOLO... I do disagree with the above.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by John 070

Why is it sad? It's a part of life, that's why people have wills.

My dad always says he could have bought a unit in Manhattan for 6X his salary when he graduated from college. Today, assuming a college grad makes 70k when he gets out, he would have to spend 28X his salary for the same thing.

My dad is still alive. Life is full of regrets, doesn't make them sad. They're just part of life.

I don't fully agree with the live for today philosophy. Countries like Norway certainly do not (take their oil as a resource for example).

Worst example ever. Norway is the only country I know that has used their fast money wisely. Even us neighbors can't be envious of people with that much capability to plan a head, and make sure the distribution is even between the people.

The oil I'm not envious about, we would have fucked it up, but they got all the fish also.

[MetsFan]

Originally Posted by John 070

That's not true at all, imho the "average" working stiff is only at 40k. And yes, they can lease cars and keep up appearances.

70k opens up even more opportunities, but you're not going to be driving a BMW that costs 52k for a 4 cyl.

I should have used the sarcasm font, ha.

I don't see why you wouldn't be able to buy a 52k BMW. Not everybody is living paycheck to paycheck on their salary. If that person saved for 15 years making that salary, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to buy a brand new bimmer cash. On the flip side, I don't think $600 a month for five years would be too taxing on that salary if they put a down a good payment.